NSWCS Meeting ?

[crabros]

I'm with Ducksta here, I don't see why the committee must be 'officially' informed of people's suggestions when they're probably reading it anyway.

The reason that these posts ARE NOT taken seriously is that any clown can log onto his mates computer and type anything they want.

If you have a formal complaint or comment the committee would rather see it written in some hand written form than printed out from a computer with someones dodge signature at the bottom of it.

Can you just imagine the committee going ducksta wants too know about this subject. I would be asking this if I was on the committee:

1 who the hell is ducksta could be anyone too us ???

2 whats his real name why is he hiding under a user name ??

3 why has ducksta talked here and not directed it to a committee member. First.

There are alot of questions I would be asking before I would trust anyone on any computer fish site.

Remember Not all committee members visit boards like this either.

I would only take the letter seriously if there was a name and address attached to the comments.

These guys only meet once a month to organize meetings for us to enjoy. They dont have the time to discuss petty comment that are on any boards.

If there is a problem direct it at a committee member in writing and it will be discussed at their next committee meeting to be resolved.

Bottom line These people give up alot of there free time and they DO IT FOR FREE to better the club.

That's my opinion.

Brett

I would like to ask this question ?. How do you know with a new species what reserve should be on the bag.

Would you take the chance of a huge loss with a N/R or would you rather come down alittle from the reserve price. ?

There have been alot of very new fish going through the auction at very good prices but people dont know what the fish are until they go into an aquarium and see what these fish are really worth.

I think both George and Gav do a great job at trying to do the best for the breeder selling them.

[Lee Miller]

Hi all,

Firstly, I agree that George and Gav (and John Smits and Chris Davis and lets not forget the runners who hand them the fish, and Jas who collects the money oh, and all the other committe members) do a great job at the auctions. We should also remember that in getting the best price for sellers they also get a better commission for the club.

To say that comments made on the ACE Forums are not considered by committee members is unreasonable. As pointed out, many committee members view the Forums, not all of them post comments, but I assure you they know what's said. And I am confident that any valid comments made here are conveyed to the committee meetings.

I've had my turn on the committee (bloody hard work - but rewarding) and I've had a few goes at auctioning (bristlenose were my specialty). As suggested by others, if you really think things are going that badly (or you just want to contribute) then put your hand up in August.

Cheers,

[Matthew]

G'day

I suppose that in an ideal world we would all stick to the absolute rules. However in the club we try and do what is best for the members. I like to think the club is a friendly place and we are all trying to do the best for not only the members but also for all of the fish in the country. (I digress )

I agree at times it is frustrating to see a fish one dollar away from reserve and muck about trying to get it. Then again when you have a rare set of fish the last thing you want to do is give them away. (I was brought up to believe that if you pay a decent price for something you will look after it better).

Remember this may be a fish that you have spent countless hours caring for and tring all the tricks in the book to get them to spawn and then getting them to grow....

Back to the point

For anyone out there that honestly believes this is a problem, would you please

* Put it in black and white and get it to a committee member (by this Friday for this months meeting if the matter is that urgent)

OR

* Bring the matter up during the next meeting at general business

OR

* Run for committee in August.

I can assure you that if a stack of written letters appear at a committee meeting then things will change. After all the club is made up of members, run by members and for the members. Whatever the members want can actually happen.

[Ducksta]

Would you take the chance of a huge loss with a N/R or would you rather come down alittle from the reserve price. ?

Brett, nice try, but seems you have missed my point entirely. As soon as you take less than your stated reserve you undermine the whole concept of using a reserve price to begin with. In a true auction, a reserve price means WILL NOT sell for less, that means a $100 reserve will never sell for $99. I'm not asking anyone to take a huge loss, or any chance of a loss, I am suggesting that reserve prices be used as reserve prices. If you put a reserve of $60, and are prepared to let it go for $57, then your reserve should be $57. I am not requesting a 'rule change', I am requesting that existing rules, common sense, and logic be applied.

We need to force the mentallity out of sellers that a high reserve means their fish sell better, and if they dont get reserve, well I can take whatever is on offer anyway.

If the committee want to know who "Ducksta" is making this request/suggestion

John Ducksbury

Badge Number 1069 (How cool is that? )

All my contact details you can access on record.

[crabros]

Hi Ducksta,

I haven't missed your point at all.

My point is how do you know until the night of the auction that something will go under reserve. ???

Would you take a bag of electric yellows home if the reserve was $20 but you had a bid of $19.

You state in a true Auction

Well now you have opened the can of worms.

True auctioneers get paid for their time.

The people helping around them also get paid for their time.

These people are volunteers that try to do there best to obtain the max profit for the club and seller. There is really no flexability from a guy that gets paid to do the job they get paid even if they get the item sold or not.

I find an auction a funny place as there will be good days for the seller then another time it will be the buyer that gets the good deals.

If my fish were $5 dollars under reserve I would just say too the auctioneer let it go but that's me.

If you cant gain a bid on your fish/item after the description the auctioneer should just pass it in.

The seller should be in the room also this would speed up the auction. Instead of the auctioneer trying to get blood from stone when the seller isn't there or the seller just doesn't speak up.

I believe if you are selling fish you either remain in the room to oversee what is going on or you get your friends too step up to the plate in your absence.

This waiting around until the seller is asked can I sell this item or what is the minimum you will go too does waste alot of time over the auction period.

Thats my opinion

Brett

[Ducksta]

My point is how do you know until the night of the auction that something will go under reserve. ???

That is what an auction is - if the reserve was an accurate indication of what the seller would accept we could pass it straight in and get on with it.

Would you take a bag of electric yellows home if the reserve was $20 but you had a bid of $19.

If I had a bag I was prepared to accept $19 for, I wouldn't have a $20 reserve.

If my fish were $5 dollars under reserve I would just say too the auctioneer let it go but that's me.

So if all your reserves were $5 less, and the auctioneer didn't have to ask - problem solved.

[Neil]

Ducksta it seems to me your experience at auctions is limited .Usually the bidder has the right to negotiate after the auction if he didn't meet reserve, also have you not seen bids taken after bidding is exhausted after the 2nd fall of the hammer to bring the bidder closer to the reserve, not to the reserve price ie bidding against himself.This is how motor vehicles,land,homes and any manner of goods are sold. I know from actual experience that the reserve on a block of land in a subdivision was set only after the first block sold some 25% above market value . Then the bidders on every otherblock were told after bidding was exhausted and hammer fall cough up another 10% to own the block.

All i'm saying is surely the night would end up the same length of time if sellers had to haggle for their reserves after the auction as against our auctioneers prying a few extra bids,and above all else the fish would be handled less if it is left as is.

Neil

[BaZ]

I may be wrong here, but I don't think anyone commenting on this forum seriously expected anything to change from a simple chat on here.

I suspect the conversation was more a "gee in a perfect world it would happen this way" type of affair. It certainly was from my point of view anyway.

Kevin is right of course, if anyone actually feels strongly enough about this subject then there are certainly ways and means of having the committee discuss these issues with a view to changing them. If anyone here would like their views from this thread to be presented to the committee it would be quite a simple matter of cutting and pasting your comments (just yours) into an email to the NSWCS. The link to their website is on the front page of these forums. Don't forget to include your real name and your badge number (although I do not believe that 100% of the committee have no idea who ducksta is )

I certainly don't believe anyone was trying to imply that the committee and other volunteers (auctioneers, scrutineers, runners etc) were doing a bad job, and I am sure I am not alone in my appreciation of these volunteers and the time they give up for the hobby.

Now if everyone can be nice, not take the issues to heart, and not make this an ACE v NSWCS fight then I will leave the topic open.

If if becomes ugly in any way I'll close it

[YeW]

Hi All -

As a NSWCS committee member I am going to say this:

"Submit your ideas in writing to the club if you want them to be considered by the committee". If you are too lazy to write a letter - then I'm not about to take stuff to the NSWCS committee for you.

To think we dont consider things that are posted by ACE members is totally ludicrous - however, not all committee members post on ACE, and moreover, its not our job to make suggestions to the NSWCS on your behalf.

If you honestly want to make a suggestion - then you shouldnt mind writing a letter.

David.

[crabros]

My point exactly

Well Said Dave.

Lets say this the old committee would not know who the ducksta is.

Brett

[couchy]

Well IMO the auctions run very well. The volunteers do great work and the seller usually gets the best price available from the people there. But people do want to save money and get bargains. What annoys me is when a lot can't start til they drop the starting price 5 times then it goes higher than the starting price anyway? As a buyer though i have my own reserve for a lot if i will pay $20 i won't hesitate when it reaches $12 and slow things down.

As for people voicing thier opinions here and hoping the society hears/acts on them, i don't think thats unreasonable. If an idea/suggestion has merit it should be considered/discussed, does it really matter who put it forward?? (net name or real name). Lets not forget there is anonimity here and thats what some people prefer as they may be uncomfortable speaking up or in front of others.

If you want the auctions to go quicker ban crimson tides and BN's etc. LOL but congrats to the committee on thier spectacular efforts . Cheers Couchy>>

[YeW]

As for people voicing thier opinions here and hoping the society hears/acts on them, i don't think thats unreasonable.

Couchy -

A few reasons I disagree.

1. This is a fish forum with no affiliation with the NSWCS

2. There's nothing stopping someone sending an anonymous letter

3. Why should committee take members ideas seriously if they are too lazy to present them to the right audience.

????

[@nthony]

Hi everyone

While discussion and the airing of new ideas is always healthy lets not get too heated about this.

This forum is read by allot of the more technically minded committee and we certainly don't disregard good ideas just because they were raised on the forum or by someone whos name is unknown. In saying that, I beleive that others were simply trying to make the point that if you really feel that strongly about an idea, suggestion or proposal to either put it in writing to a committee member or raise it in general business at a club meeting. This will ensure that your thoughts are raised and discussed by ALL committee at our monthly meetings rather than hoping your ideas gets spotted and picked up. There is allot involved in the behind the scenes running of the club and even good ideas get missed or forgotton sometimes simply because we are too busy focusing on other things.

Regarding the mini auctions, This is always an area of hot debate and often commitee feel we are dammed if we do and dammed if we dont. It is hard to keep everyone happy all the time. In saying that we will certainly discuss all the good ideas that have been put forwaard but at the end of the day we cannot control what people are prepared to pay for a lot. The auctions are not all about speed either but pehaps we can look at ways to better enforce reserves to avoid the time wasting when we have to start a lot at $3 or 4 even get a bid yet has a unrealistic reserve of $25. Perhaps better education of the sellers as to the reserves / values of fish may help solve the problem (Thanx for the email Micheal)

All in all IMHO the mini auctions seem to run pretty well at the moment while there is always room for imrovement we should not get too caught up in knit picking. If only we could get as many hands go up volunteering for committee positions in August as we have people putting their ideas forawrd on ACE. The running of the club would be allot easier and we may be able to actually have the man power to implement some of your ideas. Ultimately the NSWCS is what you the members make it.

Just my 2 cents

Anthony

President NSWCS

[pride]

As being the one to make the inital comment on reserves I would like to say that this was in no way a dig at the committee running the auction or intended to spark a heated debate and your dedicated non paid work for the club is something I personally appreciate.

Adam ( armchair critic )

[BaZ]

It is hard to keep everyone happy all the time

Actually I would say it is almost impossible to keep everyone happy all the time. This aside, the committee of the NSWCS still manage to get us all coming back month after month

[teflon]

Instead of whinging about the auction why not just enjoy it? Its not like you have to go nobody is making you. fair enough if you have some suggestions about would could make it better/faster etc but nothing is perfect and of course their are going to be things that people dislike but thats just life. None of the volunteers get paid to do any of this so instead of picking out all the "bad" points why not commend them on their good points as it will make a better environment for those who enjoy going and meeting people and getting some decent fish at a decent price.

I'm sure its not an easy thing to organize either its not a "I think we should have and auction this month" and then just bang up an advertisement on the forums there are many people behind the scenes that make the auctions possible so why not go up and thank these people instead of giving your opinions on how YOU would like it run.

Good job everybody on the NSWCS who make it possible and do it for the love of the hobby.

Cheers

Adam

[Josh]

Sorry teflon but I will agree with you here.

If you guys dont want to wait through the auction then drop by your LFS store and buy the fish through them. I am sure it wont be as cheap but it will be a lot quicker.

[Ducksta]

"Instead of whinging about the auction why not just enjoy it? Its not like you have to go nobody is making you."

True and this is the reason when I do now go to meetings I leave early and avoid the auction part like the plague. And why I avoind selling or buying there (with the one recent exception of the March auction).

"fair enough if you have some suggestions about would could make it better/faster etc"

That is what I presented, I was then attacked/criticised for it - both on the forum and privately. SO I defended my point. Most of the harshest cricticisms came from (funnily enough) those who I have noticed (when I did attempt to enjoy the auction part of the night) consistently put reserves on their lots and have to be asked repeatedly, if the auctioneer can let it go below reserve, and they always say yes?

As for putting it in writing officially, from the response I have gauged here, too many long term members would oppose it, as they are the members mentioned above who use the leniancy in the reserve system to their benefit.

So effectively, by discussing it here, it is apparent I am in a minority and it wont change. That's fine by me, if everybody else wants to keep it that way, I will continue to be a member no different to I am now. But hey! Guess what I just saved the committee and the membership the tediousness of a discussion and vote on the issue in 'official' times by having an unofficial public, and many private, discussions.

And Neil, your reply nearly got by me. But it sounds to me like your description is based on Real Estate auctions? In the many many livestock auctions I have attended, the high-bidder tends to get one shot only at saying yes to reserve, and if they do not, the lot is passed in and goes back home. This is also how it has worked at every other auction I have been to, with the exception of Real Estate. I guess a major difference would be that the Real Estate auctioneer often works on a direct commission, and will generally only be running 1-2 auctions a day. Not the 100's of lots we see at NSWCS auctions.

[Josh]

this is the reason when I do now go to meetings I leave early

I thought there was another reason why you wanted to leave early How did it go?

[Ducksta]

Not enough booze, and the promised talent was a no show. Something about a maxi-taxi not showing up to the hens day they were coming from on time? I dunno - I gave the boys heaps for it for being stood up.