Nightmare Tank Makers

[CThompson]

I recently bought a very large tank, direct from the tank makers. Due to its size it was built on site, and I had to wait three months for it to fully cure. This tank has an over flow box at one end, and written (in a three-d drawing and in print given to the tank maker in advance), and with verbal instructions, I asked for a 30mm overflow depth, to allow 12,000 lph to pass into this overflow chamber.

I can’t say I noticed the problem in the three month curing time(busy doing lots of follow-on work for this tank), but one became very apparent once the tank was filled. I didn’t even go looking for an issue believing the tank makers knew what they were doing. However, when the tank was filled, I discovered that I was only left with an 8mm overflow gap!

This caused major problems. I rang the tank makers, multiple times, I was told multiple times that someone would come out. Multiple times nothing happened.

Eventually I called Extreme Aquarium, and Wayne came out. I haven’t put water in the tank again as yet since Wayne has been, as I’m still waiting for a bridge that had to be smashed out to be replaced, but I believe that the problem has been fixed.

I would like to publicly thank Wayne for his assistance, not only for what he did, but his preparedness for putting himself into the position to fix anothers mistake.

The tank maker who made the mistake in the first place, not only refused to come out to fix it, he told Wayne to “walk away” and not help fix the problem. How’s that for professionalism?

Craig

[Teamsherman]

You should give him a lesson in "proffessionalism" and contact the Department of fair trading and discuss the matter.

[phatoscarlover]

www.notgoodenough.com.au

Glad youve managed to fix it up craig but its still pretty poor from the tank maker. Cheers Andy

[Sarah]

thats terrible Craig , i would also contact the Dept of Fair trading,

[ViS]

Once again Wayne shows his worth in this hobby

As long as your facts are completely correct Craig and there's no chance anything you have said could turn out to be false or defamatory, I don't see a problem with you mentioning the business who you had problems with. Maybe it will convince them to do a better job next time. I'm assuming you paid a fair amount to get it built in situ, so a bit of backup service should be warranted I'd say.

I've PM'd you so we can discuss it further

[Ducksta]

Where was Wayne when you were looking at getting the tank made to start with though? He wouldn't have had to fix the problem if he'd built it in the first place

[Ash]

Where was Wayne when you were looking at getting the tank made to start with though?  He wouldn't have had to fix the problem if he'd built it in the first place

←

Hindsight is always 20:20

I bet Wayne missed out on the quote by less that what the repair has cost.

Not bagging you out Craig - just stating "Murphy's law".

How big is this monster? Must be bigger than an 8x2x2 I assume!?

[CThompson]

I have considered going to the Department of Fair Trading, and am still considering it. The problem is, it is not something you purchase “off the shelf”, but is totally customised to the purchaser. And even though I have it in black and white literally, what was requested, there will be a lot of “he said she said” and I don’t know if it is worth the effort or time. Others feel free to comment if you think my opinion is wrong, and I should pursuer it in this manner, particularly if you’ve done the same yourself.

I paid $3,800.00 for the tank. I couldn’t get a quote from Wayne, I asked face to face, email, and on the phone, but I never got a quote. He wasn’t the only retail outlet that wouldn’t quote me either, another well know aquarium, after multiple requests, didn’t send me a quote.

Vis has PM me and I have given him the details of where the tank was purchased, and he said he would discuss it with Yew and Baz. If they are happy for me to put down the details of who made the tank, I’m happy to supply it. If you want to PM me, I’ll give you the name.

He is the issue as simply as I can put it,

I asked for a 30mm overflow gap. The tank maker cut the right hand wall of the tank 40mm lower, but didn’t take into account that the bridge was of 19mm glass (as is the tank), not to mention the two 6mm pieces of glass that make the sliding lid rails. That’s 19 + 6 + 6 = 31mm built into the 40 gap. That gives me a net of 9mm gap for 12,000 lph (about 10,000 lph once you take head into account). I could only measure 8mm, due I assume to the space the silicon must take up.

Now I ask you, you’re a professional fish tank maker, you’ve made literally thousands of fish tanks. Does this constitute a 30mm gap? You’re a professional tank maker, you KNOW how to make tanks, you must know that you can’t put 31mm thickness into a 40mm gap, and leave a 30mm gap for 12,000 lph to pass through .

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, I wish I had it to sell, I would be a billionaire

I could also mention, when he made the sump (an additional fee from the tank price), the matrix section partitions, he glued the middle one (where the water flows under)hard up against the reinforcing rails that run 6mm around from the top. That would mean, that if for some unknown reason in the future, the water’s passage through the matrix became blocked, I would have had 12,000lph trying to squeeze through 6mm. Anyone who knows about tanks, MUST know you don’t build this sort of bottle neck into a system. They did fix this for me after I commented, but they did so with the comment expressing their confusion as to my issue.

When you plumb a tank, as when you do the plumbing itself, the thank, and the way the water goes through the tank is part of the plumbing. You don’t leave an 8mm overflow gap for 12,000 lph, for the tank (especially when 30mm was requested), and you don’t leave a safety of 6mm by-pass in a sump for the volume of water.

In metric the tank is 3m by 64cm by 1.10m high (10' by 2' by 4' approx).

One thing I have learned from the whole thing is, don’t buy a new tank from a person who isn’t into fish, and have enough interest to get their head around “small” issues like this which can have (in the case of the sump) and did have (in the case of the overflow depth) a MASSIVE impact on wether the whole system works or DOES NOT work. I have wanted this tank for years, and have been working at it now for months - it is my 'dream tank', and I have planed it down to a really fine detail (anyone who has seen my 'book' would agree with this). I didn't cause this issue either through neglect, or miss information .

And you know, they also promissed to supply two LifeGuard bulk head airline fittings, which I am still waiting for, and they still haven't supplied me with a lid for the overflow box. They made one, but it was the wrong size...

Craig

[teflon]

If you gave specifics and they gave you a receipt then i would be contacting every person that i could to put it up these guys.

You spend all that money on a tank that probably cost them pennies to make you expect a certain amount of "warranty"

Good luck with it

Adam

[Rod54]

I would suggest you are 100% in the right particularly if you have documented proof of the requirement.....

however being in the right and getting compensation can be a long draw out process....I had a problem with building sub contractor who didn't refinish a floor properly...I pursued him and got him to attempt to fix it only for it to fail again...I then had it repaired and sold the house because another failure required a whole new timber flooring to be installed as the existing boards couldn't be sanded any more.

My advise!

If you've had it fixed...forget it and get on with the more positive things in Life

The only chance you have of getting things like this fixed is to withhold part payment till it is finished....but given the trouble you had getting a quote,getting a custom tank builder to accept that condition may be easier said than done.

[CThompson]

If you've had it fixed...forget it and get on with the more positive things in Life

My thoughts too Rod, but I hate to think they have gotten away with it, or hate to think some one else will get caught out as I did.

The problem with payment, it is expected and requested on completion of the job, but then one has to wait, in my case three months (otherwise they don’t give warranty….?) before I could fill it. It was only when filled the problem was obvious.

[malt]

Craig,

I am sorry to hear about the poor response from the tank manufacturer. I know your frustrations I can't even get a guy to give me a quote to install a gate at my place. When you pay that sort of money you expect a product that has some service backup.

I kinda agree with you on the part that "he said, she said" does not give you a strong case to go to Dept of Fair Trading. If (hindsight's a great thing isn't it) you had made the changes in writing and recorded the tank manufacturers response you would have something to stand on. But because some of the transaction was verbal you cannot prove accountability. As soon as you make changes from the original scope and quoted price you are asking for trouble.

Good luck with the new tank, just make sure that the tank support structure is sound and checked you don't want anymore suprises.

Cheers

Malt

[hilal]

im about to purchase a custom tank for one of my clients that i helped with the developments of their house,and if you dont mind can you pm me the persons details that did your tank,just incase its one of the quotes that im considering, because the tank and tank for the sump have been quoted for $4500 to $6000 and i dont want to look like a fool and unprovasional if something goes wrong,since putting the tank was my idea in the first place.i used to get custom tanks for my clients from a shop but they closed down and they always used to give me 100% guaranty everything will go 100% or my money back.shame on that unprovasional person who did your tank and i will not consider or desitate to contact fair trading on him.

cheers mate hope to get his details soon.

[phatoscarlover]

Craig i really feel for ya but its just not worth risking naming the retailer, i had another read of this site today Click Click and i know there in america and laws are diffrent but IMO (im an Admin on another large aussie forum & i have a decent legal understanding) its just not worth posting and id be very suprised if Baz & Yew gave you the go ahead anyway. I dont want to make anyone super paranoid about it but its a pretty serious and real issue IMO. Cheers Andy

[ViS]

As long as your facts are completely correct Craig and there's no chance anything you have said could turn out to be false or defamatory, I don't see a problem with you mentioning the business who you had problems with

There are a couple of big "IF's" there, then a person under our current laws in Australia are entitled to name a business transaction, whether it be good or bad. IF nothing is said to defame the business, then there is not a thing they can do. Saying a business made a mistake (and can be proven so) and wouldn't follow up under warranty, you can go for your life naming them.

I'm still going to look at all the facts with the other admins before making a decision though, as stated.

[ViS]

I've discussed it with Baz (YeW is away on a field trip ).

Craig, it's up to you if you want to divulge any information. To avoid any potential problems, I'd personally probably keep it to private email if anyone really want to know the details.

It sounds like the tank was good quality apart from the dimension mistake? I think giving Wayne a pat on the back for a job well done is probably good enough reason to discuss this thread

Anyway, it's up to you how you go about it Craig. We just thought we'd let you know our stance. If you really feel it's warranted, say something, but be 100% sure you are doing the right thing

[BaZ]

For the record, I recently had a bunch of tanks made by the same tankmaker based on recommendations from you and others local to you Craig.

My tanks were made on time (unusual considering my past experiences with other tankmakers) and so far I am happy with the quality.

I'm sorry to hear of your problems Craig, it really does seem out of character to me but I'm sure you've had a lot more to do with them than I ever have, and therefore you'd be a better judge of character.

It sounds to me like they were in the wrong, and it sounds like you possibly should have approached the Dept of Fair Trading before getting it fixed by someone else. I'm sure the tankmakers would have been forced to come out and fix the tank so that you ended up with the tank that you paid all those hard-earned dollars for. Afterall, you did all the right things warranty-wise by waiting the 3 mths before you filled it.

I'd still try Fair Trading, there might be something they can do for you.

[teflon]

Yeah give Fair Trading a go, they ring the person in question and everything for you

Its like buying a pair of shoes and the soles coming away from the rest of the shoe you wouldnt buy a new pair you would take them back

Good luck again

Adam

[DanceswithDingoes]

In metric the tank is 3m by 64cm by 1.10m high (10' by 2' by 4' approx). cool.gif

Those multis finally outgrown their tank have they?

Sorry to hear about your hassles

Where on earth are you going to fit a 10ft tank at your place?

[BlakeyBoyR]

Well I understand if the admins decide it isnt a good idea, after all, they'd only be doing it to protect forum members. But I would love to hear the name of the company who did this. I get sick of hearing about businesses who do the wrong thing by consumers and get away with it.

[jebe]

Where is Judge Dred when you need him?

[teflon]

I AM THE LAW :D

[goldfish]

I reckon we should have the rights to name fish shops or manufacturers that sells us fish or tanks that are of bad quality!

After all we do pay the money and we do have some rights!!

But i guess people can also abuse it by just simply naming someone that they dont like or just because they want some other business to have less competition!

One of the best way is to complain to the Fair Trading or some sort of government department. This way we can say that there is a case on between this party and the other party!!,,That way we are not personally naming anyone particularly.

These days you can sue for anything!!

You can even sue for falling over something even though its you who tripped over,just blame on the ground and you win in court!!!

[r.d.m]

craig you probably have a good case for compensation IF you have given the original tank maker an opportunity to fix the problem,if you did and he didnt come to the party, then lodge a complaint with the appropriate body. just an aside here on the power of the forum,a friend of mine bought some motorcycle parts on Ebay from a dude in america and they never came $3,600 us down the gurgler, so he proceeded to tell everyone on several forums that this guy (he named him) is untrustworthy and if they emailed him (my friend) hed tell the whole story, he wrote the facts and made them into a word document to be pasted into the email reply,he got 260 enquiries and to his surprise one from the rip off guy saying hes sending his money back(which he recieved last friday) it turned out that his Ebay buisiness took a sudden downturn,the point is if youre right and stick to the facts,dont insult or defame anyone then shout long and hard!

[Mazimbwe]

Name & Shame Craig...bastards need a kicking, right in the testicles, by the sounds of things.

I have found little satisfaction, in the past, from going thru official channels when I feel I have been ripped of by traders. What I have done in the past is "Picket" the business that gypped me. You will not get any money or repairs outta them but it will make you feel a whole lot better, may save someone else and gives the business the a hard-time.

As long as you are on public property and not abusive you are within your rights to hold a placard, or banner, up and chant and sing all you like.

While you may not get everything you want by doing it my way, you will feel better and you wont get as frustrated as you will by going thru the small claims tribunal.

Good luck.