Nightmare Tank Makers

[Ducksta]

The difference is that an eBay trader (unless he is declaring all his eBay sales as legitamate business transactions and not rorting taxes) cannot sue for loss of revenue. A genuine business can

[CThompson]

I’d be happy to name the aquarium manufacture, I am waiting permission from the moderators. I have sent it to a number of people who have sent me a PM.

Can’t say I’d have the time to placard their business premises, like the enthusiasm though. Their place of business is in an industrial type area, and a placard wouldn’t have any effect.

I rang the owner as soon as I realised there was an issue, I rang multiple times, each time after no action came back to me. He was always friendly, and said he would assist. He told me he was contacting one of the people who helped make the tank, to get his assistance. I had this other persons phone number, and I phoned him immediately afterwards, and he had not been contacted by the owner. He also said he would come out himself, all at the end of the day left no action. I had already been calling them trying to get the promised LifeGuard bulkhead airline fittings and the lid to the overflow box. Half dozen more calls on the mistake on the tank, when I was extremely stressed, but polite, and getting no action from them, not even a return phone call, was it for me. Which was when I phoned Wayne.

There is only so many times you can call a person, and be told they would assist, then to hear nothing until you ring them again…..

You know, on the day the tank was being built, I even put a BBQ on for the blokes. How stupid am I?

You can’t take back what is too heavy to lift, and is now built into the house….

DanceswithDingoes – haven’t heard from you in a long time. The tank has gone into the space that was immediately inside the front door to the right (where the double pappa-san used to be). You want some multis?

Craig

[Mazimbwe]

where the double pappa-san used to be

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Isn't that a "Mumma-san"???

OK Craig, I understand what you say about the location of the business in question. For me it wouldn't matter. I would take the day off work, get a folding chair, an Esky and a Thick-Pen to write on the placard with. I mean, realistically, you are not likely to get anything close to "Adequate-compensation" for the stress you have been put thru, thanx to the lack of professionalism/skill exhibited by the Tank-builder( ). You will never be compensated for being treated like a Mug by the people who ate your food, drank your drink and piddled in your pocket when they built it...

What I am talking about, suggesting, is a way to re-empower yourself by taking some action that will make you feel better. There is nothing better than seeing the look on the owners face when he rolls up to work and see's a protestor, already there, sticking it too him. Then ya stay all day and any car that drives past or slows-down to go round a corner gets to hear about the dodgy-brothers in the business behind you. Ya never know, you may even save someone getting ripped off the way you were(adding to any satisfaction that you may feel after you day).When they leave for a job or to get their lunch, there you are calling them the "rip-off-Dogs" that they are.

Gives them a bad day and you get to have a good one.

[CThompson]

Mazimbwe,

You must be a 6’4 Islander with a black belt ! I appreciate the sentiments , and I feel the same, though doubt very much I will be waving any banners around .

Craig

[BlakeyBoyR]

Well whatever you decide to do CT I hope it works out for you mate. I personally am of the name and shame school of thought. My attitude is, if theyre comfortable with eating your food, abusing your hospitality and then taking your money, then you are well within your rights to ensure other people dont waste their money on this business either.

Im sure you could shame them by just listing the facts and not even giving a personal opinion. The proof will be in the pudding so to speak.

[Mazimbwe]

You must be a 6’4 Islander with a black belt

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hmmmm....no. I'm a 5'8" Australian, with an attitude like I am 6'4" Islander with a black-belt and "Roid-Rage".

Craig, you gotta do what you see as the best way for you to get satisfaction/closure outta this whole, messed-up, situation...my suggestion is just what woulda helped make me feel better. I wish you good luck and a result...no matter how you go about getting it.

[ViS]

Maz, the situation isn't as dire as you make it out to be. From Craig's story, it simply was a mistake with one of the measurements.

The problem here is that the shop promised to fix the problem, then for some reason didn't follow through on it.

I am waiting permission from the moderators.

Craig, we gave our advice above. We don't recommend you name the shop unless you are 100% positive that you have all the facts straight and nothing you have said could be taken as libelous or defamatory.

If you take the risk and name the shop, we can't back you up, as we've advised against it. It's totally on your shoulders. You need to decide if they wronged you enough to risk your comments coming back to haunt you one day. Maybe naming the shop on other sites that encourage it may satisfy those out for blood

It's a sad world where those who should be punished by a public revelation can hide behind the law, but that's the world we all now have to live in.

If people are really interested, you are only a PM away

[Neil]

I notice on another topic not only are we naming the a---holes we now advertise addresses and we can't show the common decency to inform the novice purchasers before they make commitment to purchase.Isn't this what A.C.E. is all about informing the newbie and uninformed ?

Neil

[goldfish]

Im a little confuse as to who is who!!

Is it possible you can post the picture of the tank for us to see?,, or the picture of the part of the tank where it needed correcting.

It does sound like a big job was done, so if the part that was done wrong could be fixed without too much hassle i think it shouldnt be too much problem!!

The problem is when the makers decided not to give any help after the tank is built is the problem! If you are goin to treat your customers badly after you have collected their cash, its rather obvious you don't care about earning more money from them because its like a hit and run case!,," Earn big once off and dissapear!"....

I think if you are goin to name the maker,,you should make sure you are naming them for the right reason!,,,Its not that they are not good at making tanks, they are actually good at it but they dont care about after service. Which in your case is very important because such a tank needs it!

Anyway, this topic has been a very interesting one!!

Can u please PM me to let me know who the makers is?

[CThompson]

If you are not making mistakes, you are not working. It is only human to err. They made a mistake, a pretty big one, and one they should not make as it is a pretty basic one. Even if I told them to leave too small a gap, they should be informing me of my mistake. In this case, I asked for a 30mm gap in a 3-d drawing, and in written form. I spoke to the owner before he built the tank at some length and in the conversation, I asked if he thought 30mm was enough to allow the passage of water produced by the Nautilus 12,000 (lph). They cut the right end of the tank (that led to the overflow box), 40mm lower, but then filled it with the 19mm thick bridges and 12mm of glass for the sliding glass lid rails. This has been mentioned in greater detail above.

I rang multiple times, each time I was told help was going to come, but it never did, as also mentioned in greater detail.

I don’t have a digital camera, no I am not able to post a picture on the SCP. Yes a mistake was made, but the biggest problem is that they were not prepared to help fix the problem.

I will send you a PM with the details requested.

Craig

[phatoscarlover]

It's totally on your shoulders.

You sure about that Andy? Disclaimers are often not worth the paper there written on and i wouldnt like to be the one testing the murky waters, if a journalist writes a defamatory article do you sue the journo or the paper for carrying the article?

Craig id love to be of the name and shame group but i just think its irresponsible when you consider the possible consequences! Dont get me wrong though, i do feel youve been hard done by here and should do something about it, i just dont think naming them on the forums is that something. Cheers mate Andy

[CThompson]

Vis,

Sorry, I had missed the post you mentioned, though I have seen it now. Sometimes I am not sent a reply that I post I am interested in has had a response.

I have sent out a lot of PM to those that are interested.

I’m happy to send out more, but I don’t see any gain to me by naming them on the SCP, to those who are not interested enough to PM me to ask for the details. But honestly I don’t know if by naming them (even if I am in the right) if will come to some sort of legal action at a later date.

Don’t think the aquarium manufacture would be too bothered if I did. Their prime income is to aquarium shops, and naming them here would not hurt them on this front.

To those who want to know who the aquarium manufacture is, pm me, and I’ll tell you.

It was nice to be able to give Wayne a good wrap, I’d much rather be telling a good news story to go through the devastation I felt when I first realised I had a problem. And believe me, due to the type of issue, and the difficulty I knew there would be in fixing it (the reason the “nightmare” aquarium didn’t come to fix it), I was extremely stressed.

I’ve PM the details enough times, someone else is welcome to put down the name….

Craig

[youngy_11]

Very bad luck to get stuck with this problem. SO i agree u should talk to the owner of the shop and then if they don't give u any money or rebembershment u should talk to dept of fair trading.

[Mazimbwe]

ViS, it is not the mistake that I would have been bothered by had I been in Craigs position, everybody makes mistakes and that is life, it is the BS they spin to you while having no intention of ever coming out(unless they are forced to) that would have me hopping mad.

2 times when they say they will and they don't would be enough for me to start threatening legal proceedings if things are not fixed within 30days...after this period pickits and Liverpool Kiss's are in order IMHO. The bastards are happy eat your food, drink your drink & enjoy your hospitalty...then after they, happily, take your money you can get stuffed if you have a problem.

With that attitude they need an angry fish-keeper camped on their door-step for a week, slagging them off.

...BTW I'm never prone to flying off the handle.

[Ducksta]

Slightly OT but what kind of warranty was provided with the tank. Does the warranty start after the 3 month curing period when it actually goes into use? Or as soon as they 'finished'? I was just wondering sorry

[CThompson]

Never got to discuss duration of any warranty. On some issues, if I wanted the tank made a particular way, and it wasn’t their way, they said they would do it my way, but they wouldn’t warranty the tank. Issues for example with bridges, they insisted on having bridges hard up against both ends of the tank (as well as the middle areas which is normal). They said this is the way they do it and if I didn’t like it……

The tank was made with bridges to their design, I had little to no input on them with this, due probably to this attitude (I just asked for the spaces between the bridges to be as large as possible to facilitate my access) and it is the bridges (and sliding glass lid rails) that have caused the whole problem, as they built them into the gap left for the overflow, without taking into account the room they would take out of the overflow gap.

The tank was built on the 30 December, 2004, and on the top left of the tank they wrote in permanent marker, “not to be filled before March 2005”. If I filled it before this time, the tank would have no warranty. As it happened, I didn’t fill it till April, so it was no drama to me waiting that long.

So, in short, no mention was made of a warranty “period” other than they would fix anything that would go wrong, but then when it did, all the phone calls were one way.

One would assume if there was a warranty period, it would start on the completion of the tank.

Craig

[teflon]

Im just curious about 1 thing.

If a food critic can go into a restuarnt and bad mouth them about everything both in magazines a television how does that differ from a person naming a tank maker that has done them a bad service, This will probably happen to another person then another after them and so on because nothing is being said in a broad spectrum about what they are doing. What if a person was to go into that tank maker and ask to get a custom made tank so that it fits into a space in the childs room only to find that its been made too long/wide etc. That could have saved that person a massive amount of money if it had been put on the board.

I just don't think that the hush hush attitude is a good one as we will all lose if this type or service continues, I think its time to think about others not just ourselves

Adam

[Ash]

I just don't think that the hush hush attitude is a good one as we will all lose if this type or service continues, I think its time to think about others not just ourselves

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The problem is under our legal system, the board & it's owners/admins get sued, as they were displaying the defamitory/libelous remarks. So in essance being strict about "not naming names" is for all of us to keep the message board, not just for the admin's peace of mind.

[teflon]

That still doesn't answer my question of how they both differ

[ViS]

They probably don't differ, and I'm sure plenty of restaurant owners have tried to sue magazines for bad publicity.

I personally don't want to take the risk. If I was being paid obscene amounts to do this job and could afford to pay off an unhappy shop if I lost a court case, I'd probably say go for it, but why take the risk?

I volunteer my time here, so why make it a stressful unpaid job?

[BaZ]

I'm with Andy on this. I also do not have the time, money or desire to deal with a bunch of legal stuff. We've looked into this issue a number of times over the years and have found through various instances of legal advice that it is simply much safer to not allow negative comments about businesses.

What Craig does in his own time is none of our business, and we have never tried to stop him telling people of his experiences. The only thing we have asked is that he not do it on the forum. Craig is fine with this, so let's stop going round in circles please

Craig, have you been back to see him? Could your drawings have been unclear? Perhaps sitting in his office and sorting through some issues might get you a better result?

[Mazimbwe]

Wize Baz...I need you as my "Good Devil", sitting on one shoulder, to counter-act the 6'4" Islander with Roid-rage on the other.

What a great idea...after the 2 phone-calls don't work I should take my paperwork into his office and talk to him, while taping the entire conversation openly.

Much more likely to get a favourable response if you leave the Head-butting till later.

[teflon]

Wize Baz...I need you as my "Good Devil", sitting on one shoulder, to counter-act the 6'4" Islander with Roid-rage on the other.

What a great idea...after the 2 phone-calls don't work I should take my paperwork into his office and talk to him, while taping the entire conversation openly.

Much more likely to get a favourable response if you leave the Head-butting till later.

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[CThompson]

People who do restaurant reviews, would be professionals, being paid to do a job (of reviewing restaurants). Contrast this with a hobbyist dealing with a commercial aquarium outlet.

The downside.

If a sewing situation were to arise from a restaurant review, the employer would be having resources, if not people on staff to handle such cases.

The upside

Restaurants would know that they have the possibility of being reviewed and would do their best, to do their best, which would keep standards up. Restaurants that don’t care, probably would not stay in business after bad reviews.

This upside would have benefits for us in the aquarium hobby. Problems would be, the mods do a love job, and thus there is no one on staff to handle potential “downsides” (unless there is an aquarium keeping lawyer out there that can do this pro bono?). Commercial establishments like I experienced, can keep on doing the wrong thing by consumers because there is no history that a prospective client can review.

Perhaps what the SCP could do, would have a “hall of shame” link, that could take interested persons to a section where the original posts could be kept, without mention of commercial names, but the person who put the post up could have their contacts for interested persons to touch bases with.

Perhaps this link could have umbrella headings such as “bad fish”, “bad tanks”, “bad service”…etc.

Is there a lawyer who uses the SCP who could assist the SCP to set something up and who could donate their time should trouble arise from naming an establishment?

Baz,

What would the point be in going back to this place, when one) hopefully Wayne has sorted it, and two) when the attitude of this person was to tell Wayne when he was at my place trying to fix their problem ‘walk away and not fix it’, ‘it is not your problem – don’t get involved.’?

My drawing showed a line 3-d drawing of a rectangular tank, the only measurement I was demonstrating with this drawing was a 30mm overflow gap, consequently, this was the only measurement shown. No other dimensions were showing here (tank size was mentioned elsewhere).

In written form, I requested a 30mm overflow depth/drop, with a question in brackets after it “(is 30mm enough gap to allow 12,000 lph?)”. I also asked this question verbally.

The right end of the tank was cut 40mm lower than the surrounding walls, indicating the tank maker knew he had to make allowances for the depth of the bridges to be inserted into the top of the tank. However, with the total glass depth of 31mm inserted into a 40mm gap, I only had an overflow depth of 9mm (8mm measurable). This is clearly not a 30mm gap, and it TOTALLY stuffed up the entire tank.

Craig

[Ducksta]

Craig, on your diagram was the gap you drew marked 30mm from the top of the tank or the bottom of the bridging? Or did you just write 30mm gap? I am assuming you knew substantial bridges and braces would be in place? But did you consider it when you sketched the 'plan'. Just wondering as if it were me, I can assure you I would have forgotten to allow for bridges, because I am like that