Are NLS foods really that good?

[RD.]

If there is more waste then wouldnt that mean that less is being digested? Assuming that you are feeding the same amounts now as you used to feed.

Generally speaking, yes, but it's not quite as simple as it seems. The feed used has to be by weight, not a 1 tsp to 1 tsp type of test, as there is far more weight to 1 tsp of NLS pellets, compared to 1 tsp of flakes. Keep in mind that a 90 gram container of NLS flakes, is approx 5 times as large as an 80 gram container of the 1mm NLS pellets. You can't test by volume of feed, it has to be by weight as the pellets are far more nutrient/energy dense compared to flake food. Even then, if you feed more than the fish require, you will still end up with excessive waste in your tank.

Digestibility describes the amount of the nutrient or energy in the ingested feed that is not excreted in the feces. Metabolizability describes the amount of the digested energy that is not excreted via the urine as well as through the gills. Both digestible energy (DE) and metabolizable energy (ME) have been used to describe feed values for fish (National Research Council, 1981, 1983), but many researchers only use and report DE values because of the difficulty in obtaining ME values for fish.

There are a number of methods of determining the DE and ME of fish feed, most are not available to the average hobbyist, but if excretions are removed from the fish tank soon after they are expelled, the collection of excreted feces can give good digestibility data. (Choubert et al. (1979) and Cho and Slinger (1979)

In some feeds it's very obvious, even to a layperson, in others, more sophisticated methods would need to be used.

In most feeds that result in large amounts of solid waste, one of two things are usually the cause;

1. there are large amounts of undigested carbohydrate, caused from excessive amounts of low energy and low protein ingredients such as grain by-products that are rich in starch and fibre, or

2. the fish keeper is simply feeding more than the fish require for growth and energy.

In the case of NLS, the food is very low in carbohydrates compared to most commercial feeds, with no low cost grain fillers whatsover being used, so the only possible cause left for having excessive amounts of solid waste is that one is simply feeding more than what's required by the fish.

Honestly, you just might be surprised at how little NLS needs to be fed to keep your fish in optimum health.

Each species, as well as individual fish can vary due to their metabolic requirements, so using pre-measured amounts of the food & experimenting in your own tanks is the best method for the average hobbyist to get a feel of just how much, or how little, food their fish actually require to stay in top physical condition.

HTH

[MoliroMan]

with Tropheus, i luv seeing a lot of thick red solid poo (not the white stringy stuff!!! ) - it means their digestive tract is working well and there is no obstruction.

I do get a lot of wasted in some of my tanks.....maybe i am feeding too much of the stuff? Any other tropheus owners out there who feed NLS have less craP? How much do u feed and how often?

When i am back with my Ts on the weekends i feed them 3 pinches of Cichlid formula and Thera A 50/50 mix and then 1 pinch of Finicky formula. I do this twice a day. In my growing fry i use grow formula 4 times a day. So far no incidence of bloat yet but am i feeding too much? Some of the juveniles do look a little on the plump size - i might need to start a 'biggest loser" weight loss regime and see what happens .

[firechild]

I've never used NLS so have no opinions on the product but I find it very interesting that I keep seeing the statement about marine fish being the true acid test. I have been a committee member of the Marine Aquarium Society of Sydney, a moderator of one of the largest US based marine aquarium forums as well as a moderator of Australia's largest marine forum, in all this I had actually never heard of NLS until it was mentioned by a cichlid enthusiest I work with. The difficult to keep species mentioned such as moorish idols, regal angels and achilles tangs should have an add-on to ther tag as difficult to keep/feed, in tanks as large as Pablo's, they are much less difficult. I had a regal angel that was feeding and growing and a mate of mine has a moorish idol (about 12 months to date) neither of which were fed NLS, I also know someone who had long term success with an achilles tang and moorish idol I believe largely due to the fact they were in a 10'x4'x2.5' tank.

I have a degree in marine science and have done aquaculture courses so I understand the whole idea of FCR but we're talking about a single food for a single species in regards to reducing the FCR. NLS is a single food that is designed for a multitude of different species some with vastly differing natural diets, Tropheus spp. may have a similar diet to mbuna but the differences will change the required nutrient levels meaning that a very low FCR for one species will be less impressive for another, what about when comparing to Aulonacara spp. or Otopharynx spp.?

[RD.]

For a starter, the average fish keeper, marine or fresh, does not hang out on online fish forums. I would guess that you would be lucky if 5% of the fish keeping hobbyists world-wide are members of such forums, and of that 5% that are registered members, only approx 2% actually post comments on those forums. I too was once a mod, on a site that now has 30,000+ members, but again, less than 5% of those members are active participants on the forums.

Rome wasn't built in a single day, and quite frankly Pablo's not trying to be the largest most well known fish manufacturer in the free world. If he was, I suspect that he'd be spending a bit more in advertising than simply placing a 1/3 page ad in a single magazine. (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) That is his one & only paid advertisement in the world.

Having said that, the sales of NLS have grown in leaps & bounds over the past few years. New Life Spectrum fish food is not only sold throughout the USA and Canada, it's also sold in Germany, Japan, Australia, Finland, Sweden, Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Taiwan, Chile, Venezuela, Mexico, Philippines, Israel, Turkey, and the UK.

Also, all major mail order companies in the USA carry NLS food.

Don't you find that odd considering what a tiny little company NLS is?

Pablo will never have a profit margin like some of the larger manufacturers in this market (due to the cost of his raw ingredients), but his goal was never to be the biggest, his goal was to simply be the best. Pablo is unique in the regards that he invests very little on marketing his product, as he prefers to ensure his money goes towards the highest quality of raw ingredients. Although many of these ingredients proved to be very costly, and the manufacturing costs have risen significantly over the past 8 years (approx 40%), he has refused to increase his prices. As a matter of fact, due to high price complaints from hobbyists such as Craig (CThompson) from this very forum, Pablo dropped the previous importer of NLS in Australia, just to ensure that his food would still be readily available to the average consumer, and not priced beyond the reaches of the average hobbyist.

So now that we've covered the popularity polls, let's move on to the marine fish circles.

The aquarist at the Wildlife World Zoo in Phoenix AZ feeds 90% of the fish in their aquariums NLS, exclusively, the larger specimens are fed fish that are gut loaded with NLS. Atlantis Marine World in NY also feeds NLS, as does the Columbus Zoo, Mystic Aquarium in CT, and the Washington DC National Aquarium. I believe that there are several other public aquariums in the US that also use NLS, but those are the ones that I can recall at the moment. Also, there may be several others that use NLS & purchase the food via local distributors, but the ones previously mentioned are public aquariums that purchase their food directly from New Life.

Bob Fenner is another person who is highly regarded in the marine circles, and who also endorses the use of NLS, even though as you can see the manufacturer of NLS does not endorse or sponsor his site. Mr. Fenner has no commercial interest whatsover in New Life.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/bobfbio.htm

Pablo Tepoot's Spectrum Food

Hello all. 1st time writing in, but a long time lurking and learning on the

site. I am just curious if the "Spectrum" food by Pablo Tepoot that you

constantly mention is the same as the New Life "Spectrum" food that is on

the market?

<Yes. The same>

I am looking to get some for a juvenile Pomacanthus Imperator,

but want to make sure it is the correct food that you rave about. Thank you

kindly.

<Amazing stuff... Have been friends with Pablo for years... and he IS a character... nonetheless this/his food IS amazing in its apparent palatability, nutritional value>

Sincerely,

Mehran J. Marashian Jr.

P.S. If you could respond directly to this e-mail, I'd greatly appreciate

it. Sometimes I have the darndest time navigating the site.

<Ah, we respond directly to all. If you have suggestions re improving the navigation, layout of WWM, please send these on. Bob Fenner>

Feeding Moorish Idol

Hi Bob,

I have a MI, and I am having problems getting him to feed, any advice would

be great. I have a 160 gal tank. I have had the fish for about two weeks,

he picks at my live rock, but refuses to eat anything I offer him, yet he

seems to be fine. Cheers Jim.

<This is going to sound VERY odd, but do try Spectrum Fish Food... yes...

pellets... Have seen these eaten by Zanclus... know Pablo Tepoot, the

maker... have seen his that are fed on this exclusively... Works. Bob

Fenner>

Helpful Tip for feeding Lawnmower Blennies

Just thought this info might help.

<Thanks for this>

Hey folks. I have some great news for those of you having problems feeding

your lawnmower blennies.

New Life Products makes New Life SPECTRUM Marine Fish Formula; sinking

pellets.

I purchased my first lawnmower over a year ago and soon after realized he

wasn't eating and I began to worry. My daughter named him "Little Feller" I

desperately searched the internet for an answer. After reading many posts and

articles and many failures in trying to get him to eat, I about gave up. I even

tried sanitizing some fresh algae from the nearby fresh water pond placing

tufts of the stuff bunched together with rubber bands in the rocks, but

nothing would work. I had temporarily ran out of Formula 1, so I was feeding the

Spectrum for a few days until I could run out to the fish shop. Within 2 days,

the blenny started devouring the stuff. This was after no eating for 2 weeks

and I'd just about wrote him off. I felt so guilty that he was suffering.

Within a week he was fat as a hog. He recently bought the farm after jumping

out of the back of the tank. (SAD) I just purchased a new lawnmower (Little

Feller II) about a month ago. I was worried that my previous success was just a

fluke. By the 2nd day in the tank he was eating the Spectrum just like my

previous blenny. Just as a test, I tried Formula 1 and Formula 2 and he just

spits them out after tasting them. But the Spectrum; He loves it!! I hope this

is helpful to anyone having feeding problems.

<Am friends with the maker, Pablo Tepoot... and feed his foods to my African Cichlids... and have seen the Spectrum line fed to Moorish Idols, Parrotfishes, many other difficult-feeding fishes in public and private aquaria around the world... the food is to put it simply, amazing. Bob Fenner>

And this article on Powder Blue Tang by Bob Fenner .......

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/powdbluetg.htm

Foods/Feeding:

Nutrition or should I state, a lack of nutrition is likely the principal cause of loss of this species in captivity. Too often specimens arrive too starved to recover and/or are placed in circumstances where they cannot sustain themselves. It may seem counterintuitive but there is reason to believe that supplying a "fully nutritional" staple food is of at least as much benefit as being conscientious about having greenery available at all times. I have seen very healthy Acanthurus leucosternon that have been fed only on "Spectrum" (New Life International, Inc.) foods for instance.

Many of the moderators on his site feel the same way.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/trigfdgfaqs.htm

Trigger Food -

I have been feeding the above fish 100% New Life Spectrum Marine Fish Food for over 6 months. Seems to be doing great. Someone suggested that I feed only meat (shrimp...) and forego the pellet food. I like the pellet food convenience.

Can my fish survive on high quality pellet food? <Well, you've picked THE high quality pellet food, and the folks who created it are able to keep a whole bunch of hard-to-keep fish using this same food. I'd say your fish will likely do well with it. Sill, I like to make my own food from shrimp, squid, and clams... I'm sure your trigger would enjoy some. But as I said, the New Life Spectrum foods are about the best food you can get in a container.>

Thanks

<Cheers, J -- >

Last year I spoke with a professor at the University of Florida in the Dept of Fisheries & Aquatic Sciences, who happens to specialize in dietary habits & nutritional disorders of fish, and is considered an expert in this field. I was told they had used New Life Spectrum "for years", as a control diet in studies, as well as for newly arrived fish that are placed into quarantine, and that it "performs very well". I suspect that if they are using it for newly arrived, stressed out wild fish, they must consider it to be a VERY well balanced nutritional diet.

Perhaps ask Joe Yaiullo, the curator of Atlantis Marine World in NY (a 20 million dollar facility) what he thinks about NLS, and his marine fish? http://www.deltecaquariumsolutions.com/JoeYaiullo.htm

I suspect that you've also heard of Mike Paletta, he too uses NLS.

http://www.peteducation.com/author.cfm?cls...2954&ath=36

Need I go on?

Ok, so you own or know of 3-4 fish from species that I've used as an example that have survived to the 12 month mark in captivity. My point is that IF your marine fish will eat NLS (of course not every last one will) that you will have no problem keeping these species, and for MUCH longer than 12 months. I have never once stated that a person can't keep any of these species in captivity beyond a few months, what I have stated many times over is that IF your fish will eat NLS, keeping them for 'years' not just months, will become very easy. Pablo has kept Moorish Idol for 5+ years, and they are boderline fat!

Does size of tank matter, certainly, but Pablo's 2000 gallon tank isn't the only marine set up he has.

I'll see if his secretary can take a few pics from one of his 100 gallon tanks, and I think you'll be shocked at the species he maintains in such a small volume of water.

Also, before anything goes into his larger tanks, they all go through a quarantine period of anywhere from 6-12 months. Here's one of those qt set ups, and as you can see it certainly isn't a massive tank. (it's a 50 gallon)

Also, all of these fish are maintained with no other supplements of any kind, be it feed, or water additives/supplements.

As far as FCR, I posted this previously ........

While there are still many unknowns in the subject of ornamental fish nutrition, especially if one takes into account the thousands of various ornamental species that hobbyists keep & breed in captivity, when it comes to commercially prepared diets, IMO the best approach is to use a high quality feed that satisfies the crude requirements of all species. If that same feed satisfies certain requirements in some species, more than others, I'll consider it a bonus.

Outside of food fish operations, fish food manufacturers simply cannot & do not create individual formulas aimed at single species of fish. If they did, each manufacturer would need to have several hundred formulas, which simply isn't feasible. How many manufacturers do you know of that have dry food created specifically for marine fish that eat coral polyps & sponges in the wild? The fact remains that Pablo (as well as many other people) keep these species thriving for years on an exclusive diet of NLS.

Do all of the people mentioned above feed NLS exclusively to their fish, probably not, but can they, absolutely, and Pablo's tanks are living proof of that, as are many other marine (and fresh water) tanks found throughout the world.

We can debate the science until we are all blue in the face, but why not cut to the chase, you said that you've never even tried the food, why not give it a go yourself & see what kind of results you get in your own marine set up?

[RD.]

Ok, as promised here's a couple of shots of one of Pablo's 100 gallon tanks.

This 100 gallon tank contains Moorish Idol, Regal Angels, Parrot Fish, Butterfly Fish, Naso Tang, Venustus Angel, V. Lionfish, Bicolor Angel, Rock Beauty, Harlequin Tuskfish, Flame Angel, Grey Poma Angel, Indian Ocean Saddleback Butterfly, Magnifica Foxface, Passer Angel, Blue Tang, etc, and every last fish in this tank eats NLS exclusively. No fancy lighting has been used, and there's been no altering of the photos.

[JLL]

* dials 000 * Help.....Police.....I would like to report a hijacking... I am not sure what their demands are as my attention span is not that long....

[Nigel]

* dials 000 * Help.....Police.....I would like to report a hijacking... I am not sure what their demands are as my attention span is not that long....

[RD.]

JLL

You originally asked:

I would really like anyone else to offer feedback on NLS foods but more than just a generic 'it's really good' response. What actual improvements have you seen after making the change or is the hype just hype and how long did it take to see any improvement?

So what exactly do you want? A generic 'it's really good' or 'it isn't really good', or something with some substance to it?

[firechild]

As far as FCR, I posted this previously ........

While there are still many unknowns in the subject of ornamental fish nutrition, especially if one takes into account the thousands of various ornamental species that hobbyists keep & breed in captivity, when it comes to commercially prepared diets, IMO the best approach is to use a high quality feed that satisfies the crude requirements of all species. If that same feed satisfies certain requirements in some species, more than others, I'll consider it a bonus.

Outside of food fish operations, fish food manufacturers simply cannot & do not create individual formulas aimed at single species of fish. If they did, each manufacturer would need to have several hundred formulas, which simply isn't feasible. How many manufacturers do you know of that have dry food created specifically for marine fish that eat coral polyps & sponges in the wild? The fact remains that Pablo (as well as many other people) keep these species thriving for years on an exclusive diet of NLS.

I didn't say manufacturers should do this as it would simply be rediculous. What I did mean was that a product by NLS may be the best food available for species 'A' while a product by OSI or HBH may be the best food for species 'B'.

We can debate the science until we are all blue in the face, but why not cut to the chase, you said that you've never even tried the food, why not give it a go yourself & see what kind of results you get in your own marine set up?

Unfortunately I no longer have a marine tank as I will be moving to Fiji to help run a large aquaculture and fish/coral collection facility in Fiji. Also I feel no need to change my ways from feeding other brands of food especially given the "be all and end all" attitude that pushes the NLS product, maybe I'm missing out on something great but I'm willing to takethat risk.

[MoliroMan]

Great post Neil....

I would luv to visit Pablo's office and breeding ponds one day if he will let me?

I find that there are two types of people, those who will try anything new that comes along and another that are stubborn in their ways and do not accept change even if all the evidence point in its favour.

If only we had more open-minded people out there we wouldn't need to have these ongoing futile debates.

[RD.]

JLL - No worries, I certainly wasn't offended. I only wanted to make sure that I wasn't typing all of these responses just for Nigel's sake.

I'm sure that you'll be happy with the results from the food, and if by chance for some odd reason you're not, you can always switch back to your previous food & see what if any changes you then notice with your fish.

Firechild - you asked a question, and I answered it to the best of my ability. I have a sense that you weren't interested in reading the answer, you were simply attempting to make a point.

Quite frankly, it beats the heck out of me why some individuals get so worked up over comments such as the ones that have been posted in this thread. I probably provide more info about this product, and fish nutrition in general, than you will ever receive from any other pet fish food manufacturer or distributor in the world. Yet when I do, there's always the odd few that get bent out of shape. Unless I'm sitting next to you twisting your arm behind your back, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about? If you're satisfied with your current choice of foods then by all means stick with them, but if you're going to ask specific questions, or post what I feel are misleading or inaccurate comments, regarding this specific product, then I will do my best to respond to them, as I always have.

I would think that this would be a good thing. I don't have all the answers, nor do I pretend to, but please keep in mind that the time I spend here is of my own free will, and I did in fact provide a link to the New Life Q&A forum early on in this thread to avoid eye strain from those members that obviously aren't interested in this subject, beyond taking a poke when they see an opening.

Here it is again; http://www.newlife.ipbhost.com/forums/index.php

For those that have specific questions regarding NLS, please use the link above, and Pablo and myself will do the best that we can to answer them in a timely manner.

Over & out .......

[malrift]

I have an old article of pablos here from fama about 8-9 years ago his place looks magic and the best coloured fish I have ever seen. But pablo is great on his website and answers emails of any questions you may have so I wouldn't hesitate to use his site for any info required.

[vwboy53]

Coincidentally, I finished my first container of NLS 1mm Cichlid formula, and switched back to sera granulate menu.

I found that the fish did have better colouration, but through the whole time, none of all my americans, seemed thrilled about eating the food, they only ate it sparingly.

Another thing I was not keen about was that the water had a fishy smell to it.

But NLS was of great quality, in that it was fresh, and in good consistency for pellet size. The fish growth rate when feed with NLS was better than most foods, but the SERA gave a much better growth, but this could be attributed to the food being more readily eaten.

[Ash]

how large were you americans? mine get 3mm because it almost seems like they can't see the 1mm stuff or something - only the severums really go for the 1mm but even they have trouble actually ingesting any quantity of it.

I think RD & Pablo recommend 3mm for any fish over about 15cm (pending mouth size) but a lot of the americans will take it no worries at half that size (eg: convicts) & they seem to get a much better feed.

How large are the SERA granules for comparison's sake?

The fishy smell is kinda a no brainer - there's fish in it! makes you wonder why some other products don't have such a fishy smell...

[vwboy53]

The Americans were between 4cm to 13ish cm's. I have convicts, and blue acars.

The sera granules vary, because there are 5 types in one container (all seperate sections for variety).They range from 1.5mm to 3mm. But they all go for the food regardless of type, fairly eagerly.

The fishy smell is kinda a no brainer - there's fish in it! makes you wonder why some other products don't have such a fishy smell...

[/quote.

Good point.

Maybe I might try the larger 3mm food to see how it goes.

[Ash]

don't give them a choice either - switch straight over to the NLS & NLS alone during the trial, if you go for it. they'll always take what they're used to first & foremost - if you were switching from NLS to SERA the exact same thing would happen

[CThompson]

The fishy smell is kinda a no brainer - there's fish in it! makes you wonder why some other products don't have such a fishy smell...

Does that mean if I fish oil my car, I can then feed my car to my fish because it smells fishy so there must be fish in it?

I bought some adult female Msobo about a month ago, they were a peachy sort of colour. Now around a month later, they are orange. I've fed them nothing buy NLS. So I have finally seen for myself an improvement in colour when feeding NLS. I got my wife who dosn't see the fish often (garage is my cave!), and she confirmed the colour increase.

They didn't take to NLS at first, but eat it with zeal now.

Craig

[vwboy53]

I changed over to NLS without any swapping of foods during that whole time. I only went back to sera because I used up all my NLS.

[Nigel]

bought some adult female Msobo about a month ago, they were a peachy sort of colour. Now around a month later, they are orange. I've fed them nothing buy NLS. So I have finally seen for myself an improvement in colour when feeding NLS. I got my wife who dosn't see the fish often (garage is my cave!), and she confirmed the colour increase.

Are you telling us Craig its just the change in food or are there other factors that may have led to this dramatic change in there colour.

[CThompson]

I'm saying that it was the food that made the difference.

If it were other factors such as species interaction (dominance and so on), it would see a difference between different fish.

The male is not showing dominate colouration, but NLS can't have an impact on that. If he doesn’t' feel dominate then that is all there is too it.

But the four females are different. There is very little fighting/interaction between these four fish, and virtually none between them and the small cobalts and yellows. They seem pretty peaceful from what I can see. Their colour change has been slow and consistent, so slow in fact, that if it weren't for the fact I noted the lack of colour on the four girls when I got them, I may not have noticed the change. It is only now because I can look back, and remember the colour that they were, and the colour they now are, that I can peg the change.

They were not orange before, they are now. And they are all the same tone.

Craig

[Nigel]

They were not orange before, they are now. And they are all the same tone.

I would be asking questions about this quote me thinks.

[malrift]

Why would you be asking questions about that. If you don't believe it then try it for yourself if you see it then you will beleive it.

[taybelZ]

Why would you be asking questions about that. If you don't believe it then try it for yourself if you see it then you will beleive it.

NLS is definately not the ideal diet for ANY fish, nor should be exclusively fed... I disagree with it being a matter of seeing it to believe it. But rather, if you believe in, you will see it!!

NLS is agressively advertised and many consumers are lead to believe in its promotions.

[RD.]

Feel free to explain all that to the fish below that's been eating NLS exclusively since the day that it was spit.

You'll have to excuse my photo taking abilities, it's a rather low budget camera, and it appears that the flash has washed out much of the color.

BTW - I also have some NLS fed severum pics that I'd be happy to share, along with scores of others.

Just say the word, and I'll be happy to oblige.

[sandy001]

Beautiful Taiwan RD

Got any more pics