novafishy Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Following Aline and Matthew's tank disaster (HERE), it got me thinking... How long is long enough till you have to replace a heater? 5 years? I mean spending $10-20 for a new heater every X years would cost almost nothing. So what do you guys think is the maximum time for a heater's life before it should be replaced whether its giving problems or not? It'll be good to get a variety of opinions. EDIT: mods, can you pls move this topic to Technical? i clicked on the wrong button ...again. haha! tnx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Moved for ya I think with heaters it comes down to the quality of the product. I'd reckon Jager heaters would not need replacing as often as the $10 specials. I'm not having a shot at cheap heaters, simply pointing out that you get what you pay for. Spending $50+ on a heaters should get you one which lasts a lot longer, however if you need to buy 20 of the things the price soon adds up. I think heaters are a bit of a gamble, and who's to say that the 2yr old heater wouldn't last another 5 yrs, while a brand new one might give you grief from the moment you install it. Do what you feel comfortable with. I try to replace mine when I see evidence of water penetration (moisture inside them, internal labels peeling off etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 I buy the $10 heaters and replace every year or two depend on condensation. I will keep the ones that show no signs of condensation for spares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckfish123 Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 I have an Italian made heater thats over 20 years old & its still working fine. I also have other brands & they all seem to last a long time,in fact i have never had a heater failure & i have kept tropical fish for over 30 years .Must be luck on my side Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10050460 Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 i have a 300watt jager since 1996, and it has always been in use, cant really remember turning it off except when i changed my tank! i guess these days they dont make them like how they use to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 The three times heaters have failed me are: 1. Broken glass, cheap heater 2. Stopped working, 2nd hand cheap heater 3. Always on, Tronic Generally I have found the cheaper ones use thinner glass so I have to extra careful when using them. Also the two that are now stuck always on, they only failed after 4 years but during that time they were generally abused and never looked after. I now use a $5 special from Sooty, the $12 from Age of Aquariums and Tronics although my next heater will probably a Jager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagfest Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 I've actually been hit and miss with my heaters. I boutght one a few years back cheapest I could find, and to this day i still use it. Some more expensive ones I have had 2 tronics, one failed within 6 months and the other one still going strong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 I think heaters are a bit of a gamble, and who's to say that the 2yr old heater wouldn't last another 5 yrs, while a brand new one might give you grief from the moment you install it. I agree...but I disagree about the more expensive ones being better value/reliability. We have heaps of 300W jaeger come back to the LFS about 4 years ago...faulty. I have $10 specials going strong for the last 6 years. I agree that Tronic are not good as every one I have ever bought has failed. Andrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckmeister Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 I bought a new heater on my first spawn of albino Dimi's because I did not want to risk what heaters I had. It jammed the first night and cooked the whole spawn It was not a 10 dollar heater nor was it a jager, still a reputable brand though. I've also heard that some of the problems with the jagers still exist ie condensation even after their suposed repair. I have some though and have not had any problems. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novafishy Posted November 12, 2005 Author Share Posted November 12, 2005 Its great to see varied responses. I, myself have never had a heater create a disaster, but I've had one tronic which would stop working, but it was in summer, so I just replaced it. All the $10 ones that I use are all going strong even after a few years. I also believe that the more expensive heaters are not necessarily better quality heaters. Is condensation inside the heater a sign to replace it? I've got some condensation in about 1/3 of all my heaters, but they are all alright...or would it be wise to change them around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Over the past ten years we have used a number of heaters - ranging from $10-$60 and have had no real outstanding experiences from any. The dearer have the same thermostatic issues as the cheap etc etc. It has been our habit to replace most within two years to err on the side of caution. Every now and then one catches us off guard and the scenario of the other day unfortunately occured. We did have one for many years that we inherited off Mat's mum - one of those that needs to remain only partly submerged - that to this day still works well Heaters - soon to be a thing of the past for us - except a small number kept for the tank or two requiring temps higher than the surrounds, for select breeders . Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Forgot to mention, I have found that the cheaper ones generally have a more variable temp range, but then again what is 1 or 2 degrees here or there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve24cro Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 i dont think you should replace your heater until it fails, no reason to, as a fairly new heater can malfunction as well, you just have to monitor water temp every day or least 2 times a day. And also have a cheap backup heater, cant go wrong, only 10 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rae Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 i dont think you should replace your heater until it fails, no reason to, as a fairly new heater can malfunction as well, you just have to monitor water temp every day or least 2 times a day. And also have a cheap backup heater, cant go wrong, only 10 bucks. ← Do many people use the heaters that only have a metal (stainless) heating tube in the tank and the controler etc is attached to the power cord outside the tank. Aqua One, Via Aqua and quite a few other brands all make these type of models. Do these have the same issues as glass ones does anyone know? Regards Rae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novafishy Posted November 13, 2005 Author Share Posted November 13, 2005 I've currently got one of those running Rae, has been running for about 3 years now and it seems to be going strong. I really like these ones, as you dont need to put your hand in to adjust the temperature, and the metal stainless heating tube looks cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 I think heaters are a bit of a gamble, and who's to say that the 2yr old heater wouldn't last another 5 yrs, while a brand new one might give you grief from the moment you install it. I agree...but I disagree about the more expensive ones being better value/reliability. We have heaps of 300W jaeger come back to the LFS about 4 years ago...faulty. I have $10 specials going strong for the last 6 years. I agree that Tronic are not good as every one I have ever bought has failed. Andrea ← I agree with Merjo. If it an't broke, don't fix it. That doesn’t mean you don't stay vigilant, regardless of what brand you buy. I wouldn't replace any heater just because it is past a certain age. Watch for water/condensation inside of it, watch for the heaters being on or off (look at their light) when they should be the other. Take note of the tanks tempreture. I’ve had a few Sera heaters, and I’ve had a few of them go on me when they were still new, so I’d stay away from them. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Do many people use the heaters that only have a metal (stainless) heating tube in the tank and the controler etc is attached to the power cord outside the tank. Aqua One, Via Aqua and quite a few other brands all make these type of models. Do these have the same issues as glass ones does anyone know? ← I'm currently using 2 of these. They cost me $50-ish from AOA and they have been working reliably since February for me. They also have an audible alarm which sounds if the water level falls too low for them, which means you are unlikely to over-cook them by running them dry during a water change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 How come no-one has mentioned the obvious? Work out how many watts you need & divide by 2 or 3 & run multiple el-cheapos. That way when one sticks, the other one/two turn off & you get a slight temp raise, not soup. That way you spend no more than ~$40 per tank & have more piece of mind than one expensive but still potentially tank cooking heater. I admit I haven't done this, but in future I would. As for when you need eleventy billion heaters - that's when you have a fish room & centrally heat so it works out no different. Does this theory make sence? Books recommend it & people say it from time to time, but no-one seems to actually do it unless they have to use multiple anyway, like in a 8x2x2 or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Most ppl probably don't do it because 300W are as cheap if not cheaper than their smaller counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobaltcraig Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Hi All I am Currently running 8 New Eheim manufactured Jager heaters They all are running well They come with a 3yr warranty Duran schott Glass and as far as I know they are the only fully submergeable heaters on the market (I may stand corrected on that one) The 300wts heat between 600 to 1000ltrs So example if you were heating a 6x2x2 which by memory is 640ltrs you would use 2 cheap 300wters + maybe 100ters to heat that amount of litres The Jager 300wt 1 heater for that tank It will cost you more to buy the Jager first but the first 12 months of running will save you the difference and more Hope that helps Cheers Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 If my understanding of electrical devices is anywhere near correct, that's impossible If they have a 300w heating element, then they can only put 300w of heat into the tank, period. Unless the 300w rating is consumed power, not radiated power, but as far as I knew heating is one of the most efficient energy conversions - there will be some losses to light, but the usual way something looses electrical efficiency is through heat conduction - which is preprecisely what a heater does. Even if a Jager is more efficient than a no-name heater, it can't be 2 to 3 times energy efficient. With a pump or lighting it could be possible but only if it used a totally different design to do it. All heaters use the same method to generate heat, so the only variable is the glass thickness/quality and more importantly the heating element. Where else can a heating element loose efficiency apart from radiated light? Most ppl probably don't do it because 300W are as cheap if not cheaper than their smaller counterparts. ← Yep, I know that. It's the same as the argument to use a dearer heater, insurance, or as branding usually ends up perceived insurance. Like a Mercedes buyer shunning a Lexus cause it's cheaper & isn't a Mercades. In reality they may be just as good as each other but no Mercedes buyer would ever admit that. I'm saying there is a greater chance of the extra money being well spent using multiple underrated cheapies for the same outlay as one brand name heater. In this thread there is anecdotal evidence that the dear ones die too, most likely less often but all the same, nothing on this earth is perfect. The odds of having two or three heaters die simultaneously in the same way is pretty small, there is no way a single brand name heater could have better odds. Therefore, it is more economical to use multiple undersized heaters than one full size dear heater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 I was referring to the cheaper ones Generally the more expensive ones have a more sane pricing index from the retailers point of view. I remember I bought some 300w heaters from Ben for only $12. The 150w heaters were around $15 at them time. The 1 watt for 1 litre rule is not a hard and fast rule. The only reason it has become enshrined in aquariums is because its easy to remember. Imagine if you had to work out the actual figure everytime you wanted to heat a tank, not very useful. A 300w heater can heat a 1000L tank given enough time. Where can a heater lose efficiency? Maybe inductance between the coils? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 doh, I got confusticated. I know a 300w heater can heat a 1000l tank, but it will take ages to do it. This does give you the time to realise it's shorted on & replace it, but it also means you don't have a very stable temperature in the tank. If you had a (theoretical) 900w heater in the 1000l tank however, it may kill all your fish overnight or whilst you are at work/school/uni/etc. This is where 3x300w heaters is safer. So scale it down to "normal" tank sizes. Say just for argument's sake a 4x18 needs a 300w heater to have less than 2deg temp shift daily. Your options are a single 300w heater, two 150w heaters or three 100w heaters. Most people (like me) seem to be skeptical that a $50 heater is $38 better than a $12 heater, but aren't three $15 100w heaters for $45 going to be safer AND more cost effective than one $50 300W heater? That's the crux of what I'm saying. Of course the best optio is three 100w expensive heaters, but cost effectiveness is what seems to drive a lot of fishkeepers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patchy Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 as for the ammount of watts needed remember that it takes 1watt, 60min to boil 1 L of water (assuming no heat is lost and from 0degC). If you've got 1watt/L and it malfunctioned/on-locked for less then an hour (assuming your tank is already at ~25degC) your going to have a very nice broth soon.... As for me i've only been in the hobby for getting close to 2 years now and right now my heaters are the most reliable equipment i have. I run a 200W on my 100gal, 25W on a 5gal, 25W on a 10gal all el-cheapo aqua-one these three didnt cost me any where near over 100 i'm sure. Then there's a Scuba (italian brand) 30W on a 10gal and another Scuba 50W on a 20gal. I notice nothing excpet the look and feel of the quality. Performance is relativley the same with both brands however the aqua-one's feel like they're about to break every time i touch them and they rattle when shaken while the Scuba one's are SOLID with little extra functions like dismantle ability. My next heater will be a Scuba (especially for my main tank), i'm not forking out twice the price for a Jagar with similar performance and what seems like similar piece of mind. also i know my tanks are desperately overheated (25W on a 5gal LOL) but the aqua-one hasent failed me yet and even when it switches on it dosent overheat the water. Quality attribute or just regular performance? beats me but i'm sticking with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novafishy Posted November 14, 2005 Author Share Posted November 14, 2005 Its funny how you refer to your tanks in gallons. Isnt that very american? I have no issues with it whatsoever, its just funny, considering you live down under...unless you were in american for a while...ok i'll shutup now. i just find it confusing when you read "200W on my 100gal". cos u gotta figure it out..."what size tank is that...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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