couchy Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Hi everyone, i'm relatively new to fish breeding(1.5-2 years) and at the start of the year i set up a rack of 5 odd sized tanks(whatever i had or got cheap), approx 850lr total running off a sump and 4900l/hr pump etc. etc. As you all know and i found out, the electricity costs in my house have gone up considerably, far above mine and most importantly my wifes expectations. My questions are regarding my second rack. I have 4 new tanks (3'x20"x20") with wiers all flowing to a home made sump waiting to be turned on. I was intending on waiting til winter's over to fire them up($$$$save) but of course have started up 2 tanks with OTB filters because i needed the space. ?? What drains the most electricity, Pumping or heating? Any ideas on reducing costs would be appreciated. I guess the pumping is inevitable and i think the next step is to heat the room, if so which is the cheapest way to do this. My whole set up is based on only 2 others i've seen. so looking for expert guidance Cheers Couchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Heating is the biggest power burn by a long way, is your room insulated? Effectively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ged Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 I found the biggest cost was heating but I am heating the room. How are you currently heating your tanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couchy Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 NO my tanks are in my garage, I've built a wall just inside garage door to reduce the temp loss but it's not insulated. Ged i use individual heaters (aquarium not room YET) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Heating the room, without insulation will cost just as much ultimately. I guess the big cost factor is heat loss, as opposed to actually heating. That's all wasted power/money. I would recommend NOT expanding before I had insulated the area your tanks are kept. Insulation looks like a fair whack of money when you get a quote or 2, but when you see how much you save over the next 12 months you will realise how worthwhile it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 People's comments are good. If you want to know how much something is costing to run, look at the wattage on the item, approximately one watt = $1 per year to run. So a two hundred watt pump will cost about $200.00 per year to run. What makes heating a little more complicated is that they have thermostats, and will turn themselves on and off as required. Insulate, and increase your off times, and reduce costs. If you are that concerned about the costs to be considering not turning on a new system till after winter, then give the game away . Our fish are electricity junkies, and a tank is a commitment to spending $ on power . You can certainly set-up with a power reduction in mind, but at the end of the day, running a tank will cost more money than not running a tank... Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Hi couchy, As mentioned by Ged I heat the room not the tanks. I have 15 tanks running a room that is insulated with R4 bats the walls have fibre-cement on them and the doors are insulted with foam. I got my first 3 monthly power bill and it went up by about $70-$80 (somewhere in that range anyway I think) . Now it cost me a motza to insulate the room but I really is essential in Canberra (and the blue mountains). I use a thermostatically controlled power point and plug an oil filled heater and a fan into it. There is also has the added benefit of insulating against the heat. Last year when it was 39 degrees outside room temperature was around 31-32 degrees and the tank temperature only fluctuated by 3 degrees (I think that tank temp hit 28-29 degrees at the most). No my room is not as big as some other guys on the forum and when I expand my fish empire (i.e extend my fish room) I will probably do things similar but not quite the same. cheers Rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Rock Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Every electrical appliance has a wattage rating. most fish tank heaters are identified this way. the way to think about it is most light bulbs are 60Watts, so a heater being 300Watts uses 5x as much power, or equal to 5 lights in your house. My advice to you is insulate your room and heat that. room heaters are cheaper and 1 heater that uses less power that 1 tank heater will be enough (if the room is insulated properly). You can buy large sheets of polystyrene pretty cheaply and with them you can line your walls and ceiling easily. Or you can insulate with pink bats or similar (usually fibre glass sheets). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couchy Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 Will polystyrene foam do the job of insulating or should i go for bats? If foam, how thick and where from? Thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I was told by an isulation guy that ceiling bates are the best way to insulate, (within reason) i was also going to use foam..kiinda put off because we are just renting and dont really want to insulate this house for the tight buM landlord! really should get around to it avearage quartely power bill is $580 This is for a single car garage no insulation, reverse cycle aircon (cool in summer, warm in winter) for 16 tanks 2-6 footers, and a 8 footer in the house with a king 4 pump on it, and i have lights 6, 4 foot flouros on for maybe 6 hours a day. after reading this the other day i thought about it, only the display taank gets lights now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 really should get around to it avearage quartely power bill is $580 Can I live at your place! Double that and add a bit and you have our quarterly bill. Mind you, we have 40 operational tanks and another 20 being delivered as I type, which is the main reason we have gone all the way with the new room Batts in the ceiling, and walls where accessible, internal heating and double glazed windows etc etc. each tank with air powered filtration delivered via conduit - nice and warm to the tanks - Matthew is documenting it all so will have pics and video footage of the entire year long construction soon . We learnt the hard way when living in Katoomba that 15 degree drops from day to night temp were detrimental to fish there we had a false room in a section of the garage and each tank had thermal blankets (foil) around base and back and foam insulated the walls. Now in Wollongong, we are looking forward to milder winters and to throwing out 65 tank heaters and to the new fish room completed. Couchy - Do what you can afford to do atm or wait a little longer until you can achieve more. It is an impatient hobby, I know. However, I speak from experience when I say, it is worth doing it right the first time and alot less money in the long run. Depends on whether you can see youself still cichliding in a few years time. Have fun. Cheers Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couchy Posted July 14, 2005 Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 Thanks everyone for your help, I will be insulating with foam and heating the room i think. Aline, much to my wifes disappointment i'll be Cichliding for a long time and when reading about your number of tanks and electricity bills i feel so small time I will let her read this and it might get me some leniency Cheers Couchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngy_11 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 good post Couchy. I am in the same situation as you are. I am fair new to fish keeping 2 years and have just brought a rack with 4 2fters, a 4 fter and a sump. My rack is going to be constructed under my house in a little storage room. It has a concrete floor and double brick all the way around. To try and minimise heat lose im going to be putting foam in between each 2fter and also mayby some foam on the backs and sides of all the tanks? What do you guys think of the foam all the way around each tank besides from the front? (obviously) Do you think i sould line the room with foam? Any other suggestion would be greatly apprciated. thanks youngy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barramundi Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Hey Couchy, one place I have found to get polystyrene foam is car battery suppliers, they use 50mm poly to seperate the batteries on the pallets & usually have wads of the stuff & 2 or the 3 I found give it away, saves them rubbish fees. The foam is dented & stuff but for the price I couldn't care less. Hosed them down thoroughly & they worked a treat!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Aline, much to my wifes disappointment i'll be Cichliding for a long time and when reading about your number of tanks and electricity bills i feel so small time Not small time couchy just saner I suspect. My partner and I are in this together so need twice the number of tanks as our tastes are very different - that's my story anyway . Cheers Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 G'day Youngy Line the whole room with polystyrene. This is the cheapest option. Forget trying to take shortcuts. They turn out costting more money in the long run. Assuming you will be staying at your home for a while. It will save you a lot of money in the long run and the fish will be happier as well. Then heat the room with an oil colum heater. Much cheaper then individual tank heaters as well, not to mentiuon all of the problems that happen with tank heaters. G'day Couchy Transferring to air powered filtration will also save you money compared to multiple pumps in trickle filters. (Use side drop filters some species may require something else, but generally these work well, even on our tropheus!) You can also try reducing the volume of water that is pumped. But this will cost a bit more in the begining, due to the need to purchase new, lower wattage pumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngy_11 Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 G'day Youngy Line the whole room with polystyrene. This is the cheapest option. Forget trying to take shortcuts. They turn out costting more money in the long run. Assuming you will be staying at your home for a while. It will save you a lot of money in the long run and the fish will be happier as well. Then heat the room with an oil colum heater. Much cheaper then individual tank heaters as well, not to mentiuon all of the problems that happen with tank heaters. ← Yea thanks for the advice matthew. But the thing is that i don't really want to end up with as many tank as you. They are great but it just too much time and money for me. Ill have a think about lining the whole room with the foam. How much does it cost per meter and where is the best place to get it?? About the oil colum heater i think it is better way to go but do u think it is worth while for a 600ltr setup? And also there are no windows down there and the only light that the tank get is the light that comes in the 1.5x 1 meter door. Plus when i turn the light on. So if i heat the room i will have to shut the door 24/7. Would you know approx wattage for a smallish oil coloum heater? thanks for the advice. ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Youngy. I got enough to line my room going through the bin at the back of harvey norman and domanye. The packing they put around fridges is the best stuff and about 15mm thick. If you want to put foam around your tank you can, you might aswell do the top and front aswell. The front panel can be removed to view the fish, but will get really annoying at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 youngy it is going to depend, do you think you will have the tanks there for longer than 6 months or will you get bored and dump them soon? I might sound older than my 23 years here but in my time on forums dedicated to the hobby, be it cichlids/marine/tropicals/oddballs, alot of young fellas charge in all guns blazing and sell up to concentrate on new interests in 6 months time, or when they get old enough to buy cars etc. Now, if you plan on having tanks in that room for more than a little while, I would suggest insulation ASAP. Heating the tanks or heating the room, neither way is effective if the tanks lose heat as fast as they get it. The cost of foam will be made up inside a shorter period of time than you can imagine in heating costs (or heat loss costs more correctly) It costs very little to heat a room/a tank, it costs alot to keep the heater running 24/7 to maintain the heat. Once you start saving on heating, you can look at cost effective lighting for the room to have on 10-12 hours a day. I don't light my tanks individually, but my room gets normal daylight hours of light. If however you look deep down and think you'll probably skip out on the hobby in 3 months, renovating the room would be a waste, unless you wanted to make it a comfy place to take your Mrs (which is what will get you out of the hobby quick smart ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I have 20 tanks in my fishroom and I heat them all with tank heaters. I spend a lot of time out here (TV, computer etc all out here too) and I could not sit out here if my room was as hot and steamy as some of the fish rooms I have visited with a central heater. Sure, it costs me a bit more each quarter for heating but if I was that concerned about saving money I would not have fish in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 BaZ I still maintain that the uncomfortableness of some fishrooms is humidity and not actual temperature. 26 degrees is not uncomfortable (and I am a sweater big-time) but 22 and high humidity is a bugger. if you are not having humidity issues heating the tanks, I would suggest trying the room and see how you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I think the reason my room is not like a sauna is the lack of tight sealing If I was to run one heater for the room I would need to seal it all up and probably insulate the ceiling and then I suspect I'd be disappointed with the humidity levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngy_11 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 no i think i am going to keep fish for a few years to come till i move out into my own home, then ill have to down size. But yea ill have a talk to my old man and see wat he recons. He thinks it isn't worth it but the power bill did go up $100 in the last 3 months. Due to, i recon a bit of the fish tanks i got going and also the ducted air con that we got installed upstairs. I think ill just keep tank heaters going because there will be no real ventialtion and it will become hot and humid down there. IF they appear to be on alot i might think about getting a little coloum heater. thanks for the imput guys. ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 G'day Ryan There is no problem with just heating the tanks. If you minimise the heat loss out of the room, then this will save you money. A light can be placed in the room with a simple (cheap) timer turning it on and off as required. PS $100 is not a lot of money in this hobby, especially when you glossed over the fact that you just started running the ducted air conditioning. This would contribute quite a bit to the power bill. cya Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Not if the ducted system replaced a large inefficient wall unit Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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