AUSCichlidBreeder Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Hey,Been successfully breeding Zebra Obliquidens now for about 1 year. My flat mate and I are in two minds about this subject.I tried searching the forums for a related topic thinking this would ofcourse come up, if so can an admin please close this and redirect it to the relevant topic. I couldn't find one.So hears the thing, just stripped another two females, 1 female this is about the nineth time so she knew what was going on and put up a fight from being catched to the actual stripping process, the other new female had no clue and she was much easier. The older female (never seen it before) now sits at the bottom of the fry net and chases everything away even the male! so in my 6ft tank all of the fish are on one side away from the net, where she now sits under and tries to pick up the fry through the net! She looks so sad and wont eat, hopefully when I get home she will be back to normal! They aren't even her fry they are from another ealier batch.Back on topicMy breeder male is A grade stock (bought from a good friend who is mad about fish) I have 3 females in the tank, 1 of which is from a local store.I have since started to notice mis matched lines on the fry, should I sell these off or cull them? They seem fine in every other way, some even only have the mis matched lines on one side....what to do.... suggestions and comments please? You can see some mismatched lines on the ones below if you look close enough ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattrox Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Mismatched line seem to pop up from time to time. My advice is don't breed from them. But if you know they are not hybridised fish you don't need to cull. It is an aesthetic thing.There are wild fish that have split in the lines. The most notable example is the P. flavus in Konings' books.If the mis matched lines were due to hybridisations, (2 different species with different numbers of stripes) then the discussion would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link2Hell Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 line faults are natural occurances but ..................everyone wants a symetric pattern with straight linesand when showing fish this is what is judged as the typespecies to format the points scoring withif it as me I have & would cull anything I considered belowthe standard I was breeding forIMOwe would all have better fish in the hobby if breedersculled out fry that were poor quality be it pattern , colouror deformityChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowie Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I cull any poor coloured or odd looking fish but as stated before its a personal preferenceAlso makes turtle food really affordable when all he eats is poor quality fish lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSCichlidBreeder Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Looks like some freezer action tonight for some unlucky fry... I hate taking life, I breed for the reason to keep the genus alive since this fish is now probally extinct in the wild.....has anyone had what happend to my older female, will she stop at any stage soon, she needs to eat and its stressing herself out with all the chasing ... I sware she is depressed too, i can see it in her eyes lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elapid Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Have a look at wild Victorians, they don't have the straight bars that we see in the hobby. While I understand the they have been line bred to have straight bars they don't look anything like their wild cousins.I don't think broken bars in victorians are at all "bad quality" and it will be a shame when they all look the same in the hobby...it will be like keeping clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSCichlidBreeder Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Very true, to the fact that one of the baby fry who we let grow in the main tank has a V pattern instead of stripes... we actually like him/her for the fact that it has two massive V marks and is different, I guess thats why some people buy hybrid..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxious_nasties Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 If anything I would breed them! Crimsons have naturally occuring mismated barsand are becoming ever so hard to find because everyone is line breeding them.line faults are natural occurances but ..................everyone wants a symetric pattern with straight linesand when showing fish this is what is judged as the typespecies to format the points scoring withif it as me I have & would cull anything I considered belowthe standard I was breeding forIMOwe would all have better fish in the hobby if breedersculled out fry that were poor quality be it pattern , colouror deformityChrisChris that is very dissappointing to hear... natural variations such as mismatched stripes are faults?Genes that allow for variation are there for a reason. As a representative of a club that aims to preservespecies you should be promoting natural variations opposed to line bred clones.Wherever you got the mindset that such occurances are "below standards" is beyond me.The hobby would benefit by maintaining the diversity that nature has provided us (which is whywe are all fascinated by fish) not the human modified versions that some think are superior.For those who may be confused about my stance here, I believe anything that is a natural variation/occurance is to be bred. I do not agree to breeding fish that have deformities or issues that relate topoor health/well-being.Regards,John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joller Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 yeah if the fish are in good health, no deformities i'd let them live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intern1 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Since this a genetic normality, the negatives of culling is reducing the genetic pool it could be that the bars aren't passed on to the offspring and the offspring have better genes, less susceptible to pathologiesjust something to think about.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalizer Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't see why you would kill a naturally occuring morph.We would not have electric yellow labs if morphs were always culled.You might find these fish look awesome when bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin4 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Freeze them?How would you like that?These fish are just like demasoni and its normal to have line breaks in themAs said above,,,,,, look at the wild ones you see it all the timeYour more likely to have more than you can sell as wellThere were heaps of them in NSW but they breed like hellTry putting the female in a large frysaver and some plastic plant to let her spit the fry at her will. Stops them being so stressed.You get bigger fry and she will take them back in her mouth then when safe spit them out again! great to watch if you have the timeI dont see any deformities in your fish in that photo, they look normal and fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalizer Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 To be honest I like the mismatched bars better hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aymenz Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I have been breeding these for a while now and this is the 3rd time I strip the same female, currently growing the fry and never seen these incomplete lines, my 50 cents, keep them and monitor which females they are coming from,, so you can stop breeding that specific one....keep the batches separate from one another and monitor their growth..Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxious_nasties Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I've been breeding these for about 2-3 years and I only got mismatched bars from 1 of the first strips I did. I thought nothing of it and sold them off like any other fry;I never got the occurence since...When I had that group of fry I use to call the ones with mismatched "tiger striped" because thats what they reminded me off.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joller Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 i reckon you should line breed the mismatches until none of the bars line up that would be cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damoq Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I think its very interesting that a few years ago it was frowned upon to try and sell frontosa without straight/even bars and now they are on the allowable import list again we have found wild caught fish have uneven bars anyway!!! How many frontosa fry/juvies were sacrificed over the years because of our want for something that is not always a natural occurance.Great topic anyway and good to see peoples varying opinions!Cheers,Damo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSCichlidBreeder Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 Yes thank you for all the inputs, I don't belive in taking life, they are not inbreed. I am checking the middle batch tonight miss matched bars are not common.,.... as for the freezing thing most human way as the fish is asleep before death I will keep them, and see what the LFS say. As for the female 2 days later and she is still protecting the fry saver lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalizer Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 You could have stumbled onto another rare morph like the electric yellow lab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I have the same Ideas as Chris on barring. I like my fish to have striaght bars, its a personal preference I guess.Frontosa guys have always been the worst for this IMHO. I have seen plenty of F1 frontosa with bent bars, particulary Tanzanites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxious_nasties Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 It's all well and good to buy fish with traits that you like but when people lose sight of what actually is natural and genetically coded for inthe wild I have issues. I've talked to alot of people who buy frontosa's and many seem to think that it's unnatural for them to have anythingbut straight bars; of course when people are bringing in wildcaughts and raising fry with uneven bars this proves otherwise. People who havesuch strict stantards to what is good or bad allow for new hobbyiests to follow on the same mindset until problems with what is or is notnatural arise - I can't stand for that. It's hard enough filtering out rubbish about what is and is not natural these days.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Have you brothers and sisters I have straight hair as well as my sister my brothers have curlly hair with the same parentage I see this as being individuals ,not every one wants to walk down a cat walk. The same as 7bar froontosa my drream is to have vw bars breed from pure stock.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSCichlidBreeder Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 Variety is good but I guess I will limited the sales to show all male tanks. Most African Tanks are all male tanks, thinking of turning my breeding tank into a displayed tank just alot of work for little $$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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