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sump design


tangka
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hi guys

im planning to convert my 4x18 tank into a sump as it works out cheaper. Need to obtain the glass offcuts now.

please look at the diagram and give me your thoughts.

to explain, the very faint line on the top is plastic which will be drilled with 10mm holes, underneath that the green box is jap matting, the pink box is filter wool and lastly the blue ovals are bioballs.

under that chamber on the right is where the pump sits, in this open chamber i was thinking i could house some fry as well as maybe litter the bottom with extra filter media e.g matrix.

here is the pic

IPB Image

what you think?

thanks

daniel

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hi guys

im planning to convert my 4x18 tank into a sump as it works out cheaper. Need to obtain the glass offcuts now.

please look at the diagram and give me your thoughts.

to explain, the very faint line on the top is plastic which will be drilled with 10mm holes, underneath that the green box is jap matting, the pink box is filter wool and lastly the blue ovals are bioballs.

under that chamber on the right is where the pump sits, in this open chamber i was thinking i could house some fry as well as maybe litter the bottom with extra filter media e.g matrix.

here is the pic

IPB Image

what you think?

thanks

daniel

If budget is your concern then just use a large bucket (or cheap plastic crates) with some holes in the bottom and put the whole thing in your sump.

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I can’t see any a ”faint line”, but you say it is at top so I assume you are talking about a diffusion plate. This is fine. There can be a fair amount of splashing at this point dependant on flow rate, and I see nothing to take care of this nor lids for evaporation, which can be significant in summer.

Green is kamaharda bio mat = good

Pink is filter wool = good

Blue Ovals is bio balls = not best choice.

Dependant on sump water level the bio balls may be submerged = wrong choice in biomedia. No measurements or intended running levels are indicated in your drawing, but it is a fair guess on my part to conclude that the bio balls may be submerged, even if only the bottom layers. I agree with your desire to use bio balls but think that Matrix would be a better choice here, or another biomedia that doesn’t perform only at their best with water trickling through it.

In addition, during power outages when excess tank water back flows to sump, bio balls will be underwater, regardless of the normal running water level in sump. Bio balls provided they stay damp during power stoppages, will survive better than ones underwater. Bare in mind that this is truer for biological bacteria that are trapped inside a canister filter than in a sump that has access to a surface O2 exchange.

Pump position inside sump is not best place as all pumps heat will go into aquarium water. On hot summer days when your house is 42 degrees, this is not good. If you can it is better to drill tank and put pump in-line, assuming it can be run in-line.

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Pump position inside sump is not best place as all pumps heat will go into aquarium water. On hot summer days when your house is 42 degrees, this is not good. If you can it is better to drill tank and put pump in-line, assuming it can be run in-line.

this is my plan for a sump i hope it helps you

the only thing is the pump its in the sump

in line pumps? never seen any but i will be looking for them when the time comes!

bio balls are out of the water at all times!

IPB Image

Edited by Foti
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in line pumps? never seen any but i will be looking for them when the time comes!

an in-line pump is simply a pump that has the design to be allowed to have plumbing fitted at both ends, inlet and outlet

.

Often times they still come with an inlet strainer that facilitates a submerged installation, and the strainer can be removed and plumbing can be fitted making it possible for in-line installation.

For example; the Eheim hobby pumps can be installed either way.

So you have probably seen pumps like this but not known.

Not all pumps can do this, some only can be installed submerged.

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I'd take Craigs comments into consideration as they are good.

Carefull of top plastic as it may splash out of the tank

As Josh says it will work fine.

Carefull that pump has small vents if you put fry in it as they can get sucked into a powerfull punp, but yes I've done that as well as a last effort with no spare tank room.

Edited by dobbin4
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here is mine. It is moxture of both bio ball and matrix sump. It is a largish sump 100x45x50(H). I am not really using the bio balls for bio filtration IMy aim was to clean and aerate the water before it hit matrix. The baffle at the front has almost silenced it it totally which was another aim of my design. I have some pure matrix sumps and they are probably just as affective. The isump was designed for a 6x2x2 and it had two largish (20+ in each) very health breeding colonies of tropheus in for well over a year with no issues

here is the design I also added koi matting and fine filter wall in the smaller chambers where the water goes up and both chambers are pond matrix

IPB Image

here is what is looked like when I first fired it up. Well the water level dropped to a better height but you get the idea.

IPB Image

cheers

rosco

Edited by rosco
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I like the design expect for the immersed pump.

I notice the water level in the photograph is higher than the depicted water level in the line drawing. I assume you kept the water level higher than designed to allow a greater safety margin for the immersed pump? I see, as best the photo allows me to determine, that the actual water level is only a few centimetres above pump because of the size of the pump itself. If it were plumbed in line the inlet to the pump could be a half bulkhead sized flange above the bottom of the sump’s glass. This would allow for less water to be run in the sump and keep all the bio balls out of the water, and still have a greater evaporation safety margin.

If you are using these bio balls as an O2 footprint increase, this goal will be better served by having the bio balls completely out of the water. I’m sure you will know this anyway, and I mention it to add that to further increase the effect from this goal, an airline hose could be run down below the bio balls on an air stone to prevent the O2 limiting effect the bio balls will be experiencing being sandwiched between the water level below them and the “lid” of the filter wool and diffusion plate creates above them. They are in effect trapped and in a defacto enclosed container.

I see also that the matrix is kept in bags, while this allows for easy removal and cleaning, it also allows for greater water channelling, and for a larger proportion of the water to completely bypass the Matrix. Of course even with the Matrix left loose, there will be water that does not pass through Matrix, but with the Matrix kept in bags the increase in this water bypassing Matrix will be greatly increased. IF the bag were very big and the Matrix could settle as though not contained by it, this would be the best of both goals.

If you removed the egg crate the Matrix sits on, and filled the chambers with Matrix (not in a bag), you could get significantly more Matrix into the system. Do you need more Matrix? Well…it certainly is not a backward step. I don’t think that this would cause a blockage, and if it did, it would just flow over the baffle to the next chamber till it was fixed by the aquarist. I would keep the media on the up flow between Matrix chambers if I did this, as you have it, though might be inclined to use bio matt instead of the second up flow being filled with what looks like filter wool.

I actually like the sumps design, as I have said, and a few extra tweaks could make it even better. I take on board that the sump was used in conjunction with successful tank/s, but I feel could be even better. I’ve probably written more than I should, particularly for a design that I have said I like, I hope it’s not taken in the wrong way Rosco.

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I agree I wouldn't have minded having the pump outside the sump but I was worried about was noise level. I wasn't sure what kind of noise a pump outside of the sump would make in an enclosed wooden cabinet. As it is it is very very quite.

This was the first sump I designed and implemented and I am afraid that the implementation of the design wasn't as good this time. The second baffle was too high so the water level was a little too high and the bottom of the bio chamber was a tad too low. I have lowered the water level and now on;ly the final row of balls is under water and I am comfortable with that.

The egg create has worked quite well in keeping the heavier ditrus from clogging up the matrix and it settles underneath it so it is easier to syhon out.

cheers

rosco

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Hi Rosco,

Great design and similar to my sumps too. You guys should look at a marine race-track style sump modified to suit fresh water. I personally believe that sumps do not need to be too wide because the water doesn't really touch all of the media.

Just a thought on your sump and media:

Put dacron first, then koi matting. This way the matting is a bit stronger sit a bit rigid over the bio balls. If you don't like this I normally put egg crate over the bio balls and the dacron goes on top. This stops the dacron getting into and moulding around the bio-balls.

I would remove the matting inbetween the first baffle and put a thin layer of dacron over the first matrix bag. Don't worry about marix getting clogged. When I clean my sump I pump water from the tank and hose the media and all the detrius comes out and I just syphon that into the drain. I too have a problem withe baffles being too narrow and hard to reach the detrius under the media chambers.

The submerged layer of bio-balls can be either replaced with ceramic noodles or coral rubble (in my case) as they work better in a submerged environment as you know.

I too agree on the air stone in the bioballs chamber but personally, I'm too lazy! :roll

Craig,

Good point about the external pump and I too will consider this.

Edited by Chilli Powder
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Put dacron first, then koi matting. This way the matting is a bit stronger sit a bit rigid over the bio balls. If you don't like this I normally put egg crate over the bio balls and the dacron goes on top. This stops the dacron getting into and moulding around the bio-balls.

G'day Chilly,

the problem with having the dacron (white filter wool right?) first is that the is no point to have the koi matting next. The idea is to have coarsest media first to strain out the larger particles, and the finer bits get strained by a finer media. In my big tank for example I have four different media sizes to utilise this principle. Koi matting is made as a bio media, but in this case it's being used for its mechanical ability,

If I wanted to stop the wool from moulding around the bio balls, I would separate the bio balls and the wool with a piece either egg crate or preferable predator mesh as it will take up less room.

Rosco,

don't know the brand of your pump, and I'm fully empathetic with your desire with quite. A good pump will not be noisy when plumbed in line. You’ve not heard my big tank, you've got to touch the pump or see the outflow to know that it is working. It pumps 12,000 lph (10,000 at that head).

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