New Life Spectrum or Tetra Colorbits?

[Josh]

I agree that three months isn't really long enough, but how long is long enough?

Welcome to the forums Andy!

Josh

[auritus]

Although I cannot say with absolute certainty that this is the result of using this food, I can say that there have been NO adverse effects from them either.

How do you know

You just can't tell from looking at the fish. And certainly not after using it for three months.

If you have a container there, copy out the ingredients list for us to read please.

Congradulations on your first post I see you only joined ACE yesterday, what made you sign up?

You wrote out a good post.

Thanks for the welcome and thanks for stating my reply so accurately huzzy.

I have no problem in stating that 3 months is a short span of time for testing foods, but this thread is happening now so needs addressing now.

As for my reason for posting my response?

Isn't this an open forum for the discussion of aquatic related topics?

As I stated, I have been watching this topic and the antics being conducted in this thread but until now have resisted in posting my response.

It seems that no matter what one person states, with what they believe to be honesty, it has the potential to be turned against them by those who would see the topic differently

I am not of the same school of thought as your run of the mill fish keeper/breeder, by this I mean that I have never been a follower of the exact sciences of fish husbandary such as pH, water changes etc. All I know is that if my fish are happy, then so too am I.

As far as the dieary needs and the results of these needs, if my fish show signs of good healthy growth and reproduction I leave well enough alone.

Even though I do not do regular water changes nor do I concern myself with the exact water parrameters, as I have already stated [and have witnesses to] my fish thrive.

As for posting ingredients lists etc, I will not be doing that, if the ingredients list is of so much importance to you, then may I suggest you gain the advice from the horses head and not it's rear portions.

My only concern is for the health of my piscatorial pals!

p.s Thanks Josh, by the way, do you not think that if there were immediate threats to the fish well being that there would some forms of obvious signs showing in their general state after 12 weeks of feeding the products e.g weight loss etc?

[cobaltcraig]

If anyone is interested I know that St George Aquarium is stocking the product (Best Aquarium in Sydney)

Also in the Shire Petcare Direct stocks it as well

Both companies are feeding it to there stock

If that helps

Craig

[RD.]

Hello auritus,

Please don't take this the wrong way, you are most certainly entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else.

I am only directing my comment below to the question that you posed, that being;

by the way, do you not think that if there were immediate threats to the fish well being that there would some forms of obvious signs showing in their general state after 12 weeks of feeding the products e.g weight loss etc?

I seriously doubt that even the lowest grade of fish food currently on the market would cause an immediate threat to anyone's fish. (unless it contains hormones) There are certain health issues that can begin to surface in that period of time (12 weeks), but you typically wouldn't see them with the naked eye, you would need to have someone who specializes in this science perform a proper necropsy. Most health issues brought on by dietary issues may take several months, to years, before they become outwardly noticeable to a hobbyist. Even a well seasoned hobbyist/breeder such as yourself.

So cobalt, is there some reason as to why no one is willing to post the ingredient list & guaranteed analysis of this product? Surely you must be privy to this info as you have just publicly admitted "My mate is the distributor of Prestige foods " If the food is as great as you claim, then I would think that you would be proud to post this info & prove to the world that the raw ingredients used by this local manufacturers product is as good or better than the best food out there.

Or am I missing something?

I feed a locally made dog food to all of my dogs (made right here in the Province) and I most certainly share the name, ingredients, etc, with anyone whom asks. (and no, NLS doesn't make dog food) lol

[cobaltcraig]

Hello auritus,

Please don't take this the wrong way, you are most certainly entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else.

I am only directing my comment below to the question that you posed, that being;

by the way, do you not think that if there were immediate threats to the fish well being that there would some forms of obvious signs showing in their general state after 12 weeks of feeding the products e.g weight loss etc?

I seriously doubt that even the lowest grade of fish food currently on the market would cause an immediate threat to anyone's fish. (unless it contains hormones) There are certain health issues that can begin to surface in that period of time (12 weeks), but you typically wouldn't see them with the naked eye, you would need to have someone who specializes in this science perform a proper necropsy. Most health issues brought on by dietary issues may take several months, to years, before they become outwardly noticeable to a hobbyist. Even a well seasoned hobbyist/breeder such as yourself.

So cobalt, is there some reason as to why no one is willing to post the ingredient list & guaranteed analysis of this product? Surely you must be privy to this info as you have just publicly admitted "My mate is the distributor of Prestige foods " If the food is as great as you claim, then I would think that you would be proud to post this info & prove to the world that the raw ingredients used by this local manufacturers product is as good or better than the best food out there.

Or am I missing something?

I feed a locally made dog food to all of my dogs (made right here in the Province) and I most certainly share the name, ingredients, etc, with anyone whom asks. (and no, NLS doesn't make dog food) lol

RD I am at work cant get to a container to list ingredients

Will try when I get home

Cheers

Craig

[CThompson]

I first did research. Then I used the product. Then I continued to read and learn about NLS. And further, I have used NLS for many years. I have learned nothing that contradicts anything about NLS's claims (though I never noticed a colour improvement when I started using it), about itself or fish nutrition.

For example;

What I learned before use was that NLS is the first pellet food to my knowledge that can be feed to Tropheus without first soaking (a fear that T keepers had before NLS). I learned this, then proved it with use, and have used subsequently shown it to be true for many years. I argued/debated this with "Nigel" many times for those that may remember.

NLS I also initially learned from multiple sources, can be fed equally to vegetarians and carnivores (in fact I learned there is no such thing with our cichlids due to my NLS research). This is the first food to my knowledge that you can equally feed safely to Tropheus and calvus. Before NLS you couldn't keep these two fish that source their protein differently, in the same tank because of their "dietary" differences, and how/what other dry foods were with. I have feed Tropheus and calvus for many years and feed the same staple diet of NLS.

So I learned about the food - learned for the first time about fish nutrition, and while I can't sprook it like RD can, I am speaking from knowledge and as much as my experience goes, from what I have seen over years of use.

You are correct in saying that I have used my personal abilities of observation as other do, but I fronted up first of all with research off the internet and face to face with persons whose opinions I respect based off their knowledge and comments off other areas in the fish industry/hobby that I had opinions, and could compare. What I could prove (the above) I proved, other areas such as the internal benefits of NLS I can use what I have showed to be true (once again, as above), to reflect on what I can't prove

short of a necropsy (necropsy = kill fish to do an autopsy).

If you care to take the time and sift through past posts of mine, you will see I have not changed my opinion about NLS and I also back other products such as Eheim filters (for example). With filters though you can JUST use and get an informed and probably correct opinion. But with food you can't.

What I hate about fish food debates is the misinformation out there and opinions based off vested interests. Is NLS good? Yes. Is it the best dry food currently available? To my knowledge, yes.

You can feed NLS exclusively (as in NO other food, dry, frozen or live) to cichlids known to have dietary concerns (Tropheus) without issues. And can be feed to tropical marines (Moorish idols and angels) known to be sensitive to such dietary issues as lateral line disease and HITH and feed exclusively without issue for over ten years (until the whole tank was killed due to a plumbing failure). Now if it can be feed to fish like these marines I'm pretty confident that it can be feed to african cichlids with equal sucess.

This thread was about NLS and Tetra Colourbits.

Others brought another food into the conversation.

What I have said is I want further information. For example this food's ingredients list, or how about an article from overseas or local aquarium magazines. How about some internet information, or information on the person and or company who makes the food in Australia. NLS provides this and has its own website where the actual owner of the company answers posts (I assume he still does).

To say; "I have used Prestige food and the fish look good" is the same level/type of information that is has already been given. To hear it repeated by different people in different ways is not new information, it is just the same information repeated in different ways. I am after more depth.

Huzzy, you have seen me post for many years on ACE, first and last I am a hobbyist, and I want what is best for my fish. I earn no money from any NLS sales anywhere in the world – and NOBODY has ever asked me to provide positive comments for NLS - EVER, either from here or OS. My comments are based of knowledge gained from research, off years (a life) of experience in the hobby and years of personal use of NLS and from the heart. I post about a whole range of issues I feel I have some imput to, not just NLS.

I don't want to know where to buy this new food, I don't want to hear the same information already given - I want to know more about the food, something that hasn't been told.

This is the perfect opportunity for the pro-Prestige food people to provide it.

If it isn't, what can I and others read into that

I will not add further to this thread unless some further information can be added that hasn't been added before.

Craig

[huzzy]

Huzzy, you have seen me post for many years on ACE, first and last I am a hobbyist, and I want what is best for my fish. I earn no money from any NLS sales anywhere in the world – and NOBODY has ever asked me to provide positive comments for NLS - EVER, either from here or OS. My comments are based of knowledge gained from research, off years (a life) of experience in the hobby and years of personal use of NLS and from the heart. I post about a whole range of issues I feel I have some imput to, not just NLS.

Agreed. Craig, my only role in this thread is to keep things on a level field and ensure it doesn't turn to a name calling flame war. I felt that your response to Auritus was a little blunt and my comment was just a gentle prod to say he has used the same methods as you to come to his conclusion.

[RD.]

RD I am at work cant get to a container to list ingredients

Will try when I get home

I shall await your answer with bated breath.

[SydneyMike]

Enjoying a good debate back and forth. . . And while my post count is low, I didn't just join ;-)

While I don't know anything that hasn't already been said about relative merits of different brands of food, I just feed one but that does mean a whole lot, this thread brings up two interesting points.

We're hobbyists for the most part, and a lack of actual evidence for statements and conclusions is rife. 'I do 'x' and my fish are fine' isn't really an argument, without a lot of qualifying etc. When was the last time we took a sick fish to the vet and got a diagnosis, for eg, rather than guessing what was wrong? So it should all be taken with a grain of salt.

'Australian made' is also a bit of a non-point, unless someone can demonstrate that there is a specific problem with the imported food under discussion.

[Eddie Salita]

I am inclined to agree with you Sydney mike.

Perhaps I can help. An extract from another forum with the ingredients list on prestige:

wheat flour, soyaflour, fishmeal, rice flour, krill, spirulina, kelp flour, dried yeast, wheatgerm, vitamin a, vitamin b total, vitamin e, menoadion, nicotanic acid, ascorbic acid, folic acid, pyrodidixon B6, Thianin B1, riboflavin B2, Vutamin B12, Chlorine chloride, Iodine, Copper, Iron, maganous oxide, zinc, mycococurb, Biotan, Calcium B, panthanade, cobalt, Garlic. It has one of the highest allowable limits of spirulina in fish food.

I take no responsibility for its accuracy, Nor could I tell you which variety of food the list is from. I just know it was written by the QLD distributor of the food.

I am also a hobbyist first. My fish are the most important. I guess as a result I am a bit of an NLS fanboy. At first I took some convincing to change to NLS. I havent stopped my education, nor do I plan to. I realize I nor anyone else can be objective other than from a subjective standpoint. If another equal or better product comes up backed by claims can be shown, I will readily jump ship. As yet, It has not happened. If prestige can replicate or better the results of NLS on 'hard to keep' species, that will tell me the knowledge, research and experience backs it up and I will certainly be getting some. To me this is one of the major virtues of this food. That it can and does do what it guarantees

and it does make guarantees

Jason

[malrift]

Eddie before posting this up mate you should have also posted up that this list of ingredients isnt accurate and some of the ingredients have changed since the original container.

This is also mentioned later on in the thread on the qldaf which you have failed too mention.

Also this was the vege pellet just for clarification. But it too has upgraded the ingredients.

[Eddie Salita]

No worries. Thanks Malrift. Consider my post somewhat redundant until the upgraded list of ingredients is posted. Fact remains, unless there is a recall, this list is valid for the vege pellet currently in the marketplace until the upgraded food is out. So is somewhat accurate for the time being. But as you pointed out, is more or less redundant from now on. Apologies to prestige for the oversight. It was not intentional.

Jason

[malrift]

No probs just wanted to clear things up as all the food is a new set running through and it is their way of only making the product better for the fish.

They are willing to look at their product and change it if necessary to gain better results.

The thing is I am a breeder and was a breeder for alot of years and have taken this on as i believe we have the talent and the skills in Australia to make things to suit our hobby here.

For far too long we have allowed overseas products and suppliers to control our market place here and now we have a few companies willing to stand up and say we can do the same job here.

Sorry for sounding a bit over the top on this but I love the hobby here in Australia and feel it is time we produced quality products for our hobby which prestige has done.

[fullychichlid]

Well with all the info I bought myself some NLS today to feed my Mbuna Tank. It will be there sole diet and will see the results. I wish they came in 2mm size. The 1mm is a bit small and the 3 mm too big. I got the smaller ones and will see how they go.

[Josh]

p.s Thanks Josh, by the way, do you not think that if there were immediate threats to the fish well being that there would some forms of obvious signs showing in their general state after 12 weeks of feeding the products e.g weight loss etc?

I do agree that immediate threats would show up, I was more interested in the others comments about the time needed to do proper testing.

I mean for how many years do you need to be using a product before you allowed to post your opinion on these forums and not have it bashed about?

It seems these days unless you confess to have been keeping Fish for "X" amount of years then you know nothing about keeping them. It also seems that unless you have made 1000's of posts on here then the same applies.

Majorly offtopic

3/4 of this thread is now off topic, why pull someone up now for it?

[RD.]

NLS does come in a 2mm pellet size. (Medium Fish formula)

I have absolutely no issue with anyone that prefers to support a local product, there's certainly nothing wrong with supporting a local manufacturer.

But being local doesn't necessarily equate to being better. I'm beginning to understand why no one wanted to post the ingredients for this food. LOL

So am I to assume from malrift's comments that this food has already changed since it was first released, and this list is no longer accurate? If that's the case, then post the most current list, along with the guaranteed analysis. (including ash content) So far all I've seen is a lot of huffin & puffin .......

wheat flour, soyaflour, fishmeal, rice flour, krill, spirulina, kelp flour, dried yeast, wheatgerm, vitamin a, vitamin b total, vitamin e, menoadion, nicotanic acid, ascorbic acid, folic acid, pyrodidixon B6, Thianin B1, riboflavin B2, Vutamin B12, Chlorine chloride, Iodine, Copper, Iron, maganous oxide, zinc, mycococurb, Biotan, Calcium B, panthanade, cobalt, Garlic.

Even as the initial release formula, this is the product that is going to knock NLS off it's feet?

Are you freaking kidding me?

[Eddie Salita]

NLS does come in a 2mm pellet size. (Medium Fish formula)

Well it needs to get its buM into some of our shops, coz it is like the missing link for some

Same source, but of course subject to the same future upgrades:

The spirulina algae wafers are similar in ingredients to the vege pellet it is just quantities that vary.

Crde Protien is 35%

Crude fat 3%

Crude fibre(max) 4%

Moisture 8%

and ash no more than 3%

Not sure how relevant algae wafers are to this topic. But its all the stats that are I can find atm it seems.

Be great if someone could come up with the new formula stats/ingredients.

[huzzy]

3/4 of this thread is now off topic, why pull someone up now for it?

I wasnt, I meant my own reply.

However, I have culled a couple of posts that have absolutely nothing to do with either NLS, Prestige or their contents or results.

[Skippy]

So far all I've seen is a lot of huffin & puffin .......

Well said, numerous people in this thread claim to have the food at home.

Take a picture of the ingredients label for gods sake.

What is the big secret?

Yes it's all a big secret because the lizard people or the mole men or the double-reverse vampires or the stone cutters don't want you to know just like they're keeping the findings from the NLS feed trials secret

I'm no scienctician but I'd be interested in reading some of the comparable journal articles about NLS studies if you can provide the links.

Unlike Malrift, I never stated that any such feed trials exist, at least none that have been published.

Typically there will never be feed trials such as suggested made public due to the politics involved.

The pet food industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, and there is far too much at stake than just the results from some bickering on online forums. For a starter, the funding for such feed trials would have to come from a non-biased source, outside of the pet food industry itself. (which obviously includes all manufacturers) So who would pay for this, and why? Certainly there are feed trials that have involved NLS, as well as many other successful internationally known brands, but those running the feed trials aren't about to commit political suicide by publishing the results, including manufacturer names.

First they fake the moon landing - Then they kill the electric car - They hide Elvis in a small town burger joint - And now they are messing with the world's fish keepers by suppressing fish food science! THE BASTARDS!

Tell me then RD. how does NLS guarantee its results without any scientific backing?

We all know that the plural of anecdote is evidence right?

[Skippy]

Although I cannot say with absolute certainty that this is the result of using this food, I can say that there have been NO adverse effects from them either.

How do you know

You just can't tell from looking at the fish. And certainly not after using it for three months.

If you have a container there, copy out the ingredients list for us to read please.

Congradulations on your first post I see you only joined ACE yesterday, what made you sign up?

You wrote out a good post.

Apparently it only takes ten days of feeding NLS exclusively before

You will notice enhancement in color and vitality of your fish

Reference

NLS Webpage

[auritus]

I have spoken with the people at Prestige in regards to the request for an ingredients list and have written the list out so that those who wish to see what is in the product can make their own decissions as to the pros and cons.

NOTE: This is a general list of ingredients included in the Cichlid Formula, but it must be remembered that this list varies from product type to product type.

INGREDIENTS

- Whole Wheat Germ

- Defatted Soya Bean Meal

- Fish Meal

- Spirulina

- Kelp Germ (Ascophyllum Nodosum)

- Dried Yeast

- Wheatgrain

- Vitamin A

- Vitamin B total

- Vitamin E

- Menadion

- Nicotanic Acid

- Absorbic Acid

- Folic Acid

- Pyridoxin B6

- Thiamin B1

- Riboflavin B2

- Vitamin B12

- Chlorine Chloride

- Iodine

- Copper

- Iron

- Manganous Oxide

- Zinc

- Mycocurb

- Biotin

- Garlic

- Calcium B Panthenate

- Cobalt

- Marigold

- Pimpinella anisum

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

- Crude Protien (min) - 38%

- Crude Fat (min) - 6%

- Crude Fiber (max) - 7%

- Moisture (max) - 8%

Once again I have added this as a result of the requests for further information, I am not responsible for the manufacture of this product range and so therefore do not confess to knowing the benefits or drawbacks from the listed ingredients, merely the observations I have gained since trialling the product.

To this end I will not be able to help with further explanations for the addition of the ingredients.

HTH

Auritus

[RD.]

Thanks for the list auritas!

So the main 2 ingredients listed by weight are wheat germ, and soybean meal?

In New Life Cichlid formula they are South Antarctic Krill Meal, and Herring Meal. (note: no generic fish meal made up from processing plant waste)

Hmmmmmm. It might be best if I leave it at that.

Hey Skippy,

You seem like a down to earth no-nonsense non-scientific sort, so let me break it down for you in layman's terms.

http://www.newlife.ipbhost.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=66

15 years ago you would rarely see a hobbyist that could successfully keep some of the species shown in the link above, such as Moorish Idol or Achilles Tang alive for more than a few months in captivity, even if the fish would readily take food.

Even today, and with all of the modern day improvements in this hobby (improved equipment, more sensitive test kits, improved salt formulations, improved filtration, more stable water chemistry, better disease treatments and prevention) , many people still feel that fish such as Moorish Idol are "doomed in captivity", and should not be kept in captivity due to their specialized diets, and the fact that it is impossible to replicate these diets in captivity.

Kieron Dodds, from Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine wrote an article on the Moorish Idol last year, titled; "Still Impossible After All These Years - Keeping Moorish Idol". He clearly admits that the main intent of his article was to discourage anyone from acquiring this species, as he feels this species has almost no chance in being kept alive in captivity beyond a very short duration. At one point he states "Pablo Tepoot is perhaps the single individual who has had the most success with this species" - unfortunately Pablo lost his last group of Moorish Idol to an electrical failure during a hurricane, at that point Pablo had kept them thriving in captivity for 5 years. Again, something that most people would have considered impossible 15 or 20 yrs ago.

While the entire tank above was wiped out due to a mechanical failure, many of those fish were 12+ yrs old at that time, and had been raised by Pablo since they were juveniles.

Every last fish ate NLS exclusively for their entire life in that tank.

Try & find another manufacturer that has kept fish such as Moorish Idol, Achilles Tang, Butterfly Fish, Parrot Fish, Philippine Regal Angels, Majestic Angels, Rock Beauty etc, alive & thriving for years, on an exclusive diet of their dry food. Good luck with that.

Most freshwater fish will do ok on even the cheapest of generic farm feeds, IMO the true acid test of any fish food is some of the ultra sensitive marine species. This is where the cheap foods fail miserably, and foods such as NLS begin to truly shine.

[auritus]

Hi RD

I have already stated that I am not going to claim to know all about this product, but perhaps you should speak to some of the current LFS that are now feeding this range to their shop stocks e.g. St George Aquariums etc.

It must also be remembered what i stated:

NOTE: This is a general list of ingredients included in the Cichlid Formula, but it must be remembered that this list varies from product type to product type.

I must also add that, like the ingredients list for the Prestige products, statements such as

In New Life Cichlid formula they are South Antarctic Krill Meal, and Herring Meal. (note: no generic fish meal made up from processing plant waste)

are merely that, statements.

I can only comment on my observations.

HTH

[RD.]

I really don't need to speak to anyone about anything, but thanks. The ingredient listing that you posted speaks volumes to me.

I'm talking about a line of food with approx 15 yrs yrs behind it, with some of the most serious & dedicated aquarists in the world that have used it successfully for many years, not just a few months.

What you claim are mere statements, at least on my part I consider to be actual facts. The facts are the two main ingredients found in the vast majority of NLS formulas are South Antarctic Krill meal, and Herring meal.

Those interested can read more about South Antarctic Krill Meal (Euphausia superba) in the following link.

http://www.aquafeed.com/article.php?id=439&sectionid=5

While New Life International are known world-wide for their Cichlid products, over the years they have also become very well known by some of the more advanced marine hobbyists as well.

Joe Yaiullo, one of the pioneers of reef keeping in the USA, and the curator/co-founder of Atlantis Marine World in New York has been feeding NLS for several years. You can view his 20,000 gallon reef set up in the link below, the largest reef set up in North America, and the 4th largest in the world, where he also mentions feeding New Life Spectrum.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/2/aquarium

Joe Yaiullo is one of the world’s most highly regarded Aquarium authorities. He has consulted with many public Aquariums worldwide, and has also presented reef-keeping lectures throughout the United States, Canada, and Europe.

Prior to co-founding Atlantis Marine World, Joe worked with the Riverhead Foundation for Marine Research and Preservation, and served as Exhibits Director at the Okeanos Ocean Research Foundation. While working as a Senior Aquarist with the New York Aquarium, he played an integral role in the design and construction of the 22,000-square foot Discovery Cove building, winner of the 1990 American Zoo and Aquarium Association Certificate of Achievement award.

Bob Fenner, who is widely known through his various published works on aquatics, as well as his wetwebmedia website, has stated that New Life Spectrum is a nutritionally complete food, to the point of it being the best food, period. Even though he has no financial interest in this product, nor is his website even sponsored by New Life, he doesn't hesitate to promote NLS products, as seen in the following link. http://wetwebmedia.com/foodsppt1.htm

Bob's bio can be found here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/bobfbio.htm

Recently Charles Delbeek M.Sc., senior biologist at the Steinhart Aquarium in San Francisco has also begun feeding NLS at their facility.

These are just a few examples of some of the more advanced marine keepers in the USA that are happy customers of New Life products.

While I have absolutely no issue with anyone who wants to support a local product, you might be better served by choosing your battles a bit more carefully, than jumping into discussions such as this one & comparing it's quality with a product such as New Life.

I'm not looking to turn this into a "who's got the biggest" debate, but IMO it's rather obvious as to which product is of higher quality. No need for me to actually use the food or run any feed trials to come to that conclusion.

A quick read of the ingredient listings, and it's a no brainer.

[Skippy]

You seem like a down to earth no-nonsense non-scientific sort

.......and I also have a highly tuned bullcraP detector with a special accessory for fan boyism and personal agendas.

Based on the information RD. posted and the link to Pablo's tank I would recommend anyone with a 10ft long, 8ft deep, and 4ft high 2,000 gallon tank with Moorish Idols or Achilles Tangs stongly consider feeding their fish NLS and not tetra colourbits.

Personally, I use NLS but it doesn't make me taller, smarter or more attractive to the opposite sex . I tried it and it suited my needs. I don't believe all the hype and when I run out of my current supply I will buy the product that offers me the best value.