Jump to content

Tank of death


mdk54

Recommended Posts

G'day Guys,

Basically I have had a horror run with my 4x2x2 tank for the last 3 months, except for the first 2 weeks or so. I have consulted with many, many people who all told me different things. I do have a long running thread about this on another forum, but that was before I found this forum, and there seems to be a lot of people here closer to home :) Unfortunately as you can see, I have had no success yet.

So here are the symptoms:

- Gasping

- 'Spiting' every now and then

- Not eating

- Rubbing against things

- White, stringy poo's

Now I have been told that it was due to ammonia, something leeching into the water, and also Parasites. I have tested for just about everything through trial and error and still came up empty handed. Initially I treated the tank serveral times with multi purpose medicine. My water params were Ammonia -0, nitrite -0, nitrate -10. I bought a bigger cannister filter about 6 weeks ago and have even tried adding aquarium salt to the water to see if I could rid myself of this problem. I just tried a dose of 'Parasite Eliminator' with the active constituent Trichlorfonfor last week. But still fish keeping going the way of the dodo.

Finally, This problem has still not gone, and so desperate times call for desperate measures. Basically, i moved all of the surviving fish into my 65L tank, and completly emptied the 4F. once I had the tank bare, I filled it up a little bit and dropped a container of Condy's Crystals in. I scrubbed all the walls with the mix, and filled up to about 1/3. I then emptied out my canister filter and washed everything in tap water. I got rid of the ceramic noodles and 'Bio-gran' as I have bought some new stuff that I plan on putting back in, in a few days. So basically my plan now is to let the Crystals run through the tank for a few days, then I'll empty the water and replace with clean water. I'll also put the new media into the filter. Then, i'll put a couple of cheap fish in and start cycling the tank again. I don't plan on putting and substrate or decor into the tank until I know everything is ok. Hopefully this measure will fix my problem.

I am also thinking of not putting any of the fish in the 65L back into the 4F for risk of transferring the issue back.

I would really appreciate anyones comments/questions!

Cheers

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

white poo is internal worms of some sort. gasping is poor airation/ you need to break the surface of the tank to allow oxygen transfer, rubbing may be a parasite of sorts.

not a detailed answer but that is all i can help you with

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I have heard about white poo being worms of some sort. So could it be a combination of diseases? I would have thought my last dose of Parasite eliminator would have gotten rid of any external parasites? I have a 4 Foot air diffuser in the tank, as well as a spray bar from the filter, so I wouldn't think low O2 would be a problem.

Cheers,

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ian,

Maybe I missed something, but can you add temp & pH pls.

What type of fish? Are we talking discus here?

What do you feed them & how often?

Are the fish always on the bottom? Top?

How much/often do do change the water?

What do you use for water aging?

Do you leave it at least overnight before adding it to the tank?

Nosey bugger, eh :lol4:

Old Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ian,

I read through your PCS thread and you certainly have had a nasty experience.

http://www.perthcichlid.com.au/forum/index...showtopic=23938

Ammonia could well have caused the problems. So could other water factors.

I would still like to see the answers to the water related questions on my previous post.

How good is the heater. Coping with the load? Had the water been getting unusually cold?

What I haven't quite grasped is why the fish seem to spit? Could it have been something toxic from the pot?

I'll wait for more experienced comments, but I suspect you need to start over slowly and methodically.

I wouldn't use that driftwood or rocks, or anything from that tank without a good soak in PP (condies crystals) as you are doing and then a long time in the sun, and then boiling for a few hours before even thinking about re-use.

Running new filters in tandem with old ones in an established tank is a good idea.

Personally I like to leave the new one in the established tank (after a few weeks in tandem if possible) and use the old filter to establish the new tank. JMO.

Flagyl (metro) is used by ladies to control thrush infections and is available on prescription.

In the aquarium, Metro is normally used to control Hexamita in Discus.

Waiting to see what comments others make.

HTH,

Old Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read your first post on PCS and was wondering how many fish you actually had in the tank, before they started dieing? You had 10 left when you made the post and you said you had lost a couple of hundred dollars worth before that. From that I can only assume that the three days you cycled your tank for wasn't enough time and you undersized filter couldn't handle the bio-load of all the fish being added at once. From that I would say ammonia killed them

But, then you say you added a terracotta pipe and then a pot that was painted, Where did these things come from? Were they bought new or found. Also the granite rocks could have been exposed to something.

There are a too many factors that could have made things go to crap.

Josh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The rubbing could very well be white spot...

Tell us what fish.. :)

I would bump up the temperature to 30-32 and add some sea salt to the aquarium to start off with....

Is the water in the tank circulating well? Perhaps an internal would help in your situation if the water is not being circulated well enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those interested...

Jewel Cichlids (Only one's that are not displaying symptoms of not eating/breathing heavily, currently have a batch of fry)

2x Convicts (All tho I'm not sure as I haven't seen both of them for a bit)

2x Bolivian butterfly's

1x Angel fish (Legacy fish from my old community tank, had two, but one died due to this)

2x Bristlenose Cat's

2x Baby Oscars (I know I shouldn't, but they are quite small, and I'm looking after them for a friend)

When oscars eat they have a habbit of playing with their food.. Taking it in and out and messing up the tank before eating it or if they are full, losing interest in it... Is that what they are doing? Or all the fish are doing it?

......

Just finished reading the thread on pcs... so are the fish/tank ok now?

I would still recommend that you add in an internal filter to circulate water around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gasping, swimming lifelessly, sometimes rubbing against an object ... sounds like a gill disease. The fish rub against an object because they feel there's something irritating on their gill.

can be cured easily with formaldehyde solution, be careful about how much you put in, read the instruction carefully

gill infection is caused by parasites and very deadly, it spreads very quick too. Formaldehyde seems to be the only solution that can cure gill disease completely. Very common with goldfish but other fish can catch them too

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ian,

Maybe I missed something, but can you add temp & pH pls.

What type of fish? Are we talking discus here?

What do you feed them & how often?

Are the fish always on the bottom? Top?

How much/often do do change the water?

What do you use for water aging?

Do you leave it at least overnight before adding it to the tank?

Nosey bugger, eh :lol4:

Old Dave

G'day Dave,

Thanks for your reply

-I have raised the temp to about 29-30C.

-Now I haved moved more to the African's. So Venustus, E. Yellows, Peacock, Fronty's.

-I feed them AquaOne cichlid pellets normally once a day. Every now and then, I give them some blood worms.

-Generally the ones that get the problem gradually move to the bottom and become largely innactive.

-I change 25-33% bi-weekly.

-I was using API Stress Zyme, but have bought a bottle of Prime to set it up for round 2.

-No I haven't left the water over night before adding the water ageing? Is this a good idea?

Hehehe, No worries mate, I'm glad for the help! :)

Ian,

I read through your PCS thread and you certainly have had a nasty experience.

http://www.perthcichlid.com.au/forum/index...showtopic=23938

Ammonia could well have caused the problems. So could other water factors.

I would still like to see the answers to the water related questions on my previous post.

How good is the heater. Coping with the load? Had the water been getting unusually cold?

What I haven't quite grasped is why the fish seem to spit? Could it have been something toxic from the pot?

I'll wait for more experienced comments, but I suspect you need to start over slowly and methodically.

I wouldn't use that driftwood or rocks, or anything from that tank without a good soak in PP (condies crystals) as you are doing and then a long time in the sun, and then boiling for a few hours before even thinking about re-use.

Running new filters in tandem with old ones in an established tank is a good idea.

Personally I like to leave the new one in the established tank (after a few weeks in tandem if possible) and use the old filter to establish the new tank. JMO.

Flagyl (metro) is used by ladies to control thrush infections and is available on prescription.

In the aquarium, Metro is normally used to control Hexamita in Discus.

Waiting to see what comments others make.

HTH,

Old Dave

Hi again Dave

- The Heater seems to be performing well, and the temperature has remained constant, even since I turned it up to 29-30C

- Yeah thats what I thought initially, but even long after I removed the pot, and changed pretty much 80, 90% of the water over time, new fish still kept succumbing to the problem :(

- Yeah I know exactly what you mean. I think I might get rid of the rocks, and start with new fresh ones, and I'll have to make a tough call about my driftwood. What do you think about the substrate? Should I bin this and start new? Or can I keep it? I would like to if I can, but don't want to risk this issue again.

- I'm actually thinking about running the old 700L/hr cannister alongside the 2400 just to avoid anything ammonia related again. Thoughts?

Thanks again Dave

I read your first post on PCS and was wondering how many fish you actually had in the tank, before they started dieing? You had 10 left when you made the post and you said you had lost a couple of hundred dollars worth before that. From that I can only assume that the three days you cycled your tank for wasn't enough time and you undersized filter couldn't handle the bio-load of all the fish being added at once. From that I would say ammonia killed them

But, then you say you added a terracotta pipe and then a pot that was painted, Where did these things come from? Were they bought new or found. Also the granite rocks could have been exposed to something.

There are a too many factors that could have made things go to crap.

Josh

Hi Josh,

To be honest I can't really remember now, maybe >15. Yeah I can now see that this would have been an issue, and was probably what killed off the majority of them, however I really think now that some sort of infection must have gotten at the same time/after this. The pipe and pot I had had for years, and gave them a ood wash before I put them in. I also thought that the rocks might have had something, but a friend of mine uses the same rocks in his 6x2x2 African set up with no hassles.

Yeah, this is what is really annoying I guess! :(

The rubbing could very well be white spot...

Tell us what fish.. :)

I would bump up the temperature to 30-32 and add some sea salt to the aquarium to start off with....

Is the water in the tank circulating well? Perhaps an internal would help in your situation if the water is not being circulated well enough.

Hi Mate,

Now I haved moved more to the African's. So Venustus, E. Yellows, Peacock, Fronty's. Atm, the Peacocks have seemed unaffected by this problem??? :(

I have the 65L tank that the remaining fish are in now at 30C and have added salt to the water. I even did this in the 4" a couple of weeks ago to see if this would make a difference... no luck :(

The water in the tank seems to circulate great. The spray bar moves it around well from what I can see (2400L/hr in a 4x2x2)

For those interested...

Jewel Cichlids (Only one's that are not displaying symptoms of not eating/breathing heavily, currently have a batch of fry)

2x Convicts (All tho I'm not sure as I haven't seen both of them for a bit)

2x Bolivian butterfly's

1x Angel fish (Legacy fish from my old community tank, had two, but one died due to this)

2x Bristlenose Cat's

2x Baby Oscars (I know I shouldn't, but they are quite small, and I'm looking after them for a friend)

When oscars eat they have a habbit of playing with their food.. Taking it in and out and messing up the tank before eating it or if they are full, losing interest in it... Is that what they are doing? Or all the fish are doing it?

......

Just finished reading the thread on pcs... so are the fish/tank ok now?

I would still recommend that you add in an internal filter to circulate water around.

Nah it was more than just the oscars unfortunately mate :( Nah, as posted above, I have pulled the whole think apart in a big attempt to get rid of whatever the problem is.

Gasping, swimming lifelessly, sometimes rubbing against an object ... sounds like a gill disease. The fish rub against an object because they feel there's something irritating on their gill.

can be cured easily with formaldehyde solution, be careful about how much you put in, read the instruction carefully

gill infection is caused by parasites and very deadly, it spreads very quick too. Formaldehyde seems to be the only solution that can cure gill disease completely. Very common with goldfish but other fish can catch them too

This is what I tend to think it is now, But I tried one medications as noted above, without any success. I am also trying another worm/fluke one on the fish left atm.

fish can scratch when the water is too acidic. Personally i think its ammonia. There is noway even cycling your tank for 3 weeks then dumping in that amount of fish anything would survive. Thats what happens when your impatient.

Yeah I know that I was impatient, but lesson learned. However, ammonia stopped being a problem a long time ago (Testing the water), and the issue persists.

The fish have trichlorfon resistant flukes.

Easiest treatment is praziquantal.

This sounds interesting, I will have to take a look into this. How about the stringy white poo though? Does this mean that they have flukes and worms? Or can the flukes cause that too?

Thanks to everyone for the replies!

Cheers

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As it stands at the moment (Unless I learn otherwise), I plan on filling the tank up again, in the next few days, with no substrate and bare and cycling it with 6 Golden widow tetra's a friend said I could have. What are people's thoughts on this? Is that enough?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fish have trichlorfon resistant flukes.

Easiest treatment is praziquantal.

Checked the meds I have at home, and The new lot I started treating them with is Praziquantal. I treated them on Monday, did the water chane yesterday. But ave still had one of the Frontosa's go. The other looks to be on deaths door, and I have noticed that one of the Peacocks has the same symtoms. Hopefully this just takes a little while to work, and I guess I'll have to do the second treatment next week?

Cheers

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm guessing the problem is skin flukes. All the symptoms are consistant, even the white stringy faeces may be caused by flukes. Skin flukes can enter the alimentary canal via the anus. The stringy faeces are actually excess mucous sloughing off the intestinal lining. The intestinal lining may have been irritated by flukes.

You should treat the fish with metronidazole after you have the flukes controlled. Metro, as well as treating flagellated protozoa, will act as an antibiotic preventing secondary infections to the intestinal lining.

You probably don't need to re-treat the tank as skin flukes are live-bearers and always susceptible to effective treatments. If the problem is gill flukes, you'll need to re-treat, as the eggs are resistant. You can tell the difference easily with a microscope. If you can't be sure which you have, re-treat at a time appropriate for the temperature of your tank. From memory, at 25C you should treat after 3 days. If you leave it a few more days, there will be more eggs which will hatch later to re-infest the fish.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm guessing the problem is skin flukes. All the symptoms are consistant, even the white stringy faeces may be caused by flukes. Skin flukes can enter the alimentary canal via the anus. The stringy faeces are actually excess mucous sloughing off the intestinal lining. The intestinal lining may have been irritated by flukes.

You should treat the fish with metronidazole after you have the flukes controlled. Metro, as well as treating flagellated protozoa, will act as an antibiotic preventing secondary infections to the intestinal lining.

You probably don't need to re-treat the tank as skin flukes are live-bearers and always susceptible to effective treatments. If the problem is gill flukes, you'll need to re-treat, as the eggs are resistant. You can tell the difference easily with a microscope. If you can't be sure which you have, re-treat at a time appropriate for the temperature of your tank. From memory, at 25C you should treat after 3 days. If you leave it a few more days, there will be more eggs which will hatch later to re-infest the fish.

Thanks for the reply mate. Ok, however both the trichlorfon and the Praziquantel (The one I am currently using), say that I should re-treat after a week? Is this incorrect? My tank is around 30C atm if that helps.

Cheers

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The labels are wrong for the proper treatment of gill flukes. You should google dactylogyrus. From memory gill flukes lay eggs as soon as 24hrs after hatching, so retreatment may be as soon as next day, as in your case at 30c. I think you'll find the best treatment at your temperature is 500mg prazi per 100L every day for three days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The labels are wrong for the proper treatment of gill flukes. You should google dactylogyrus. From memory gill flukes lay eggs as soon as 24hrs after hatching, so retreatment may be as soon as next day, as in your case at 30c. I think you'll find the best treatment at your temperature is 500mg prazi per 100L every day for three days.

Ok cool, will do. Thanks a lot for your help mate! ;) Hopefully the guys that are left in in the 65L will respond to the treatment. Then, hopefully Saturday, I will be able to get my 4x2x2 set back up again ready for cycling.

Cheers

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

have you tried soya sauce, ginger and shallots? at least you'll get some nourishment out of it! :p

sorry,.. just jokin..

i'm having somewhat similar problems as you too, so this thread is very interesting for me. i hope it all works out.

what is your water source? have you tested it for TDS? does it taste slightly salty? i noticed that you're in NSW and the water quality there hasn't been as good since the drought. higher density of contaminents, salts and nutrience are often found. it should still be treated to Australian Standards though.

i don't know if you want to go as far as RO and UV tho, but RO water does kill alot of bacteria, u just have to remember to remineralise it before adding fish. i'm still new to cichlids, but i know discus and water quality is the make or break in the discus game. if you're going to be trying meds, i think you should put a carbon filter in your cannister as well.

good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for the comments :)

Well I have had the 'new' (second time) set up going for around two weeks now. I had an issue with my Aquaone 2400 filter when I set the tank back up (It started leaking, and the inlet tap broke) I am spewing as it is only 2 months old! Anyway, due to my dissatisfaction with it, and the shop I bought it from being dissolved, I decided to by myself a Fluval FX5 and I think I'll just replace the seal and the tap on the 2400 and try and sell it. All seems to be going well as of now (Touch wood). I have been cycling the tank with ten 1.5in Venustus and they seem to be doing well. I think I might leave it a couple more weeks though before I start adding substrate and rocks in again. The FX5 also seems to be performing very well.

I still have the suvivors from the old set up in my 65L tank, and while I have lost quite a few more from there, most of them seem to be 'ok'. I do not want to put these fish back in the big tank however, for risk of bringing the disease back, and I don't want to give them to a petshop for the same reason. Any recommendations on what to do with them? There is:

- 2x electric Yellows - 2.5in

- 1x Jewel - 4in

- 2x Clown loaches - 2 & 2.5in

- 1x Bristlenose - 3in

- 2x Peacocks - 3.5in

Will kepp up to date with any progress.

Cheers

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...