BlakeyBoyR Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Good Lord! In the time it took me to write that there was another page of posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abob Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I agree with oracle to a point. I think the sort of setup oracle described is best described as a business and if they are making money out of it they should pay tax IMO. If the same person got a second job on the weekend mowing lawns would we say 'ah he already pays tax, don't worry about it'?. I just doubt the number of people who do set up like this. I havn't personally met anyone like that or seen a setup I would even near consider a business although you do hear stories of these perhaps mythical people. (I'm don't doubt there are a few though). You could write so much stuff off as a deduction against it : electricity, part rent, water etc though that I doubt many even who are a business would have to foot much of a bill. Just my 2c. Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citypainter Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I'd go bust in this business. I will stick to painting. Good hobby though. If you can make a buck to help cover the costs then go for. If you want to profit off other peoples genorosity then you will soon be singled out by the very people that were generous to you. Enjoy your fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 And how exactly would your tax be paying for their livelyhood? I doubt many breeders on here do nothing else but breed cichlids. When did I say that many breeders here do nothing else but breed cichlids? And when did I say that my tax is paying for the livelihood of many breeders? I don't have a gripe against people breeding fish for fun, I just have problems with people trying to reap as much profit as possible from what's supposedly a hobby and not declaring the extra income. Dont take this as a personal attack champ, I just dont think what you said was very well thought-out. Fair enough.. I thought my comments were pretty coherent, perhaps they weren't... I've been in this hobby for a while now, but as a hobbyist and on the retail end, and I think I've met one person in that whole time (and I've met a whooolllleeee lotta fishy people) Not sure what this has anything to do with this thread? Like you, I have also kept fish for many years (since I was 10) and have met many hobbyists in the process. As I said before, I couldn't give a toss about anyone making a buck here and there but have a gripe with people trying to abuse the system, pretending to be hobbysts. Australia is one of the most over-taxed countries in the world, and I'll be damned if I'd support anyone saying that, on top of the massive amount of tax we already pay, that we should have to pay MORE tax on one of the few things we can do for fun and also make a little money out of I agree but why should some shrewd individuals be exempted if most of us have to pay tax? If a substantial amount of your income comes from dealing in fish, then you should declare this income and pay tax like everyone else.. I am sure most people here are genuine hobbyists so please ignore my rant as it's been a long day in the office.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I think there are only a handful of people in this forum who truly keep fish for the enjoyment of it. The so-called challenge of breeding fish is most often motivated by the $$ value.. Ah... the pleasure of the $$.. ← I am sure most people here are genuine hobbyists so please ignore my rant as it's been a long day in the office.. ← A long 2 days maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 See what happens when you bring the Tax Office into a civil conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 we are just about ahead of the fronny thread All in 24 hrs too well done guys makes for some very interesting reading too Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeyBoyR Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I bet an ATO worker has read this thread and is now trying to figure out a way to tax us all Or at least I WOULD bet on it, but I'd be afraid I'd have to pay tax on any money I made off the transaction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 A long 2 days maybe? My bad.. this is what happens when you only get 5 hours sleep in the last 3 days.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Don't forget about charging the GST now! and your BAS forms too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I pretty much just keep the fish that i find appealing to me.. if others dont like em i dont care. As i have even said in other posts i am a tropheus nut, i love em but only the ones that apeal to me!.. there are heaps i would never have, simply because i dont like em. I would love this hobby to reaps heaps of rewards, and to some extent it does, i see happy fish, i see them breeding, i can sit for ages and watch their facinating behaviour, thats heaps to me....occasionally i make a few bucks, but thats about it... It would be nice for them to make more cash, so i can get more of the ones i love( i have a taste for rare and expansive ones) I like haveing rarer stuff people havent seen. because it is different, there fore interesting. I do try to breed what i have, its a sign the fish are happy and looked after, and in so as mentioned by a few others i hate bare purpose set up tanks, almost all of mine have rocks, sand, lights, and are worthy of a few, and i try to keep the fish room the same way, And yes i do have a display tank to show off my hobey. I limit the size of my set up, because the day it becomes a chore, or like a job i will get discouraged, this is my hobby and i love it, and thats how i want it to stay.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I agree with oracle to a point. I think the sort of setup oracle described is best described as a business and if they are making money out of it they should pay tax IMO. If the same person got a second job on the weekend mowing lawns would we say 'ah he already pays tax, don't worry about it'?. I just doubt the number of people who do set up like this. I havn't personally met anyone like that or seen a setup I would even near consider a business although you do hear stories of these perhaps mythical people. (I'm don't doubt there are a few though). You could write so much stuff off as a deduction against it : electricity, part rent, water etc though that I doubt many even who are a business would have to foot much of a bill. Just my 2c. Dean ← Could you really class mowing lawns as a hobby? I think in that example the individual is clearly doing what they do to make money. I also think that rather than going round in circles here trying to sort this out, each individual would be better advised to contact the ATO personally to clarify their own situation, or alternatively contact your accountant. The ATO website clearly states that there are no hard and fast rules on this subject. They assess each case individually, according to the circumstances. There are some guidelines on the website, but no rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmfly Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I keep my fishies because i love them, if they breed thats a bonus and id probably spend any money made from fish sales on the fish anyway. the challenge of getting fish to breed has always been fun, except for when i had guppys, it was just expected that the tank would fill with fry fish rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Wow! What a thread! Personally I found Oracle's quote I think there are only a handful of people in this forum who truly keep fish for the enjoyment of it very disheartening! Personally my fish are my babies! All my fish have names, planted tanks (even the larger americans), real rocks, substrate & drift wood. The all get fed fresh/frozen food 7 days a week (no pellets/flakes/packaged food over here). I do occasionally sell my fry but that is only from a fish welfare point of view (I don't want over crowding in my tanks) but I very rarely sell to anyone I don't know and more often than not I give my excess fish away free if I know they are going to a good home. It scares me to think how much my fish cost me every year, but I don't think about it because I love them all too much! I've never kept fish that I didn't like or for the purpose of making money. At the moment I have a trio of fish that were given to me to mind and never collected, I don't enjoy having these fish and so I'm in the process of organising for them to go and live somewhere where they will be enjoyed! After all this is my hobby not my business! While it would be nice to have something back to cover the costs I'm not pushing the issue, but maybe one day when my Dicrossus filamentosus have a successful spawn it may be a different story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrdog Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Good post Hoges . I normally name all my fish too, it's a bit hard naming all your fish though when you have a Tropheus colony. I do have a few that stand out from the crowd that have names and I have a nickname for my colony that most of you probably already know . Jamie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 My wife named all my Tropheus "Dory" after the fish from Finding Nemo. "Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming" If you have seen the movie then you will understand. I agree Hoges. Its a bit off putting to say that. I wonder if Oracle has taken the time to get know the 2577 registered members of this forum and if so then I take my hat off to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Personally I found Oracle's quote I think there are only a handful of people in this forum who truly keep fish for the enjoyment of it very disheartening! That's a fair statement as I admittedly didn't word it very well. My point is if you really enjoy your hobby then you would encourage other people to do the same by placing less focus on the $$ side and breed fish for the fun of it. I agree Hoges. Its a bit off putting to say that. I wounder if Oracle has taken the time to get know the 2577 registered members of this forum and if so then I take my hate of to him I never claim to know everyone in the forum so there's no need to take your hat off for me. Anyway this continuous banter is getting boring now.. obviously I have hit the nerves of some members in this forum so let's forget about it and talk about something that everyone here enjoys reading.. ie. FISH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 yeh I know what you mean about the colonies bit parrdog - for those there is usually a group name ie. one group are called 'The Adam's Family' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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