gianniz Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 yup sootys selling it for that price.. if you buy lots then its $50 each Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I think its time I gave Sooty a call again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Nigel, U haven't found them 'cos u've been barking up the wrong tree.... Not many are caught is true, but that's because there's not much of a demand for them. Few exporters want them.... they don't command the "poster fish" status among the pleco fanatics. That said they are ABUNDANT, and one of the cheapest plecos on the list. I've gotten 100pc of these on standby since last month. About 35pc of L168 and 17pc L52 (essentially the SAME FISH!!) just landed in Singapore last weekend. An Aussie importer reserved all 35pc of the L168, but HAHA.... they forgot the L52, so I picked them up... so nyeh nyeh... u didn't get them all. $65ea is too much to pay for these catfish from someone with minimal overheads. They're cheaper elsewhere. Yoyo loaches will be coming in swarms. They're far cheaper than clown loaches, so they'll be the next staple fish at the LFS. Nigel, u're right about B.sidthimunki being a red listed species. HOWEVER, there is ONE farm in cooperation with the University in Thailand which has successfully managed to breed them. Bred stocks come from there... *hint *hint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 $65ea is too much to pay for these catfish from someone with minimal overheads. They're cheaper elsewhere. Kev I think the price should reflect the risk taken to import them and where there imported from. If from South East Asia I agree they may very well be cheaper. If from Europe or the USA then they would be more expensive. I also agree with the quoted statment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkmuncan Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 well if they are cheaper elsewhere, could some please PM me in the right direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Well How Wrong Could we be ????? L168 have hit the retail shelves (aquariums)in Brisbane way be low any price we even speculated. They are cheaper than peppermints, orange spots or even Albino bristle nose. In a LFS not known for cheap prices (quite the opposite) $35 ea for 5 cm fish Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 I will add my 2 cents worth here. Their really is little confusion in the L number game at the moment, it's just a whole bunch of African cichlid people trying to cross their cichlid knowlegde over to catfish. With minimal success. Recently their were 2 seperate fish that came in as L168 "clown pleco". Which were indeed L104 Panaque maccus and L168 Dekeyseria brachyura "butterfly pleco". It seems that the wholesalers aswell as a few other people around the trap have coupled the L168 L-number with the common name of L104 rather then the common name of L168. If you can follow? Which was actually a blessing in disguise as we now have far more L104 in the country, which i far easier to breed and maintain then L168. Although in my humble opinion L168 is a better looking catfish. HOWEVER - Again in my humble opinion. I have been tyring to break down the fish market in Aus lately, as most of you know it is forever changing and it seems the flavour of the month is indeed L numbers. It seems that people are knee deep in L168/L104 at the moment, holding off on buying any other L numbers, or wanting other rarer/still illegaly imported L numbers for chicken feed. I think that having L168 on the import list is almost a wolf in sheeps clothing. As I have noticed consumers wanting other L numbers at a price that is almost competitive with L168/L104. Recently I had some young L005 for sale, and got many complaints about the price (which was more then reasonable), because 'they will be worth little, due to the recent additions on the import list'. How is this the case? how are importers planning on getting black catfish with white spots in with yellow and black striped fish? All I can say is, that the consumer always ends up beings it's own worst enemy.... I can forsee it happening again! bit of a rant, sorry for any mistakes, in a rush Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 i bought mine at a local LFS for $35 its only 4cm inc tail, cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 and my guess is that what u got for $35 were L104? L104 are far more available and about half the price of L168/52 on the international market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 $65 here in Perth. I don't see why they are more for simply being in Perth. See what a lack of competition does kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 hmm looking at the pics of a L104 and L168 i was almost certain it was a L104 until i saw another pic which doesnt look anything like what i have got so i think its more likely i have a L168 , cheers Sarah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Post a pic Sarah. If we indeed have L168 instead of L104, we'd probably be the nation with the highest concentration of L168 in the world outside Brazil!! L168 are NOT COMMON!! L52 are more available. L104 (colour can be quite variable), and VERY easily obtainable overseas. We've taken the liberty to order these supposed L168 from the major wholesalers in Australia.... So far, they've all been L104. Still a nice new addition... but not the Real Macoy!~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus13 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 A lot of the talk today is that AQIS are going to conviscate supplies of all L series cats from suppliers due to the breach in importing legislation. (so if you want a nice new fish, get them soon, before they disappear) So far word is only one store in Sydney has had the real deal (L168) whereas the rest have been handling L52 & 104's which are both illegal imports. And for that matter all the true 168's have been sold Sadly due to some stupidity and neglect by exporters and importers, we may have this species withdrawn from the allowable list. and btw, the L168 is not a 'clown pleco' it is a 'butterfly pleco' which has been raised by Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novafishy Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 The L168 and L052 are essentially the same fish. the first is caught from brazil and the latter from columbia. THe price of the 168 are much higher than the L052 simply because the L52 are more common. Yes, there is only one shop that is selling the real 168. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Well if they do take the fish off the import list, then it just proves AQIS haven't been doing their job properly. Who are AQIS kidding anyway...by taking the fish off the list all their doing is creating a blackmarket that does no favours for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus13 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 bear in mind it is not AQIS that are bringing in incorrectly labeled fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 No i didn't say that they were bringing in the incorrect fish...all I said was that they were not doing their job inspecting the fish brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 L52 and L168 are essentially the same fish. Just like L46 and L173 are essentially Zebra plecos (Hypancistrus zebra, but just different local variation). The crux of the matter is AQIS's reliance on Fishbase for their information. http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=49973 In all truth Dekeyseria pulcher (Stiendachner, 1915) is not even a valid scientific name! It is a junior synonym to Dekeyseria brachyura (Kner, 1854). That said, the genus name has been bouncing between Dekeyseria and Zonancistrus, I'm really not even sure where it's at now. AQIS cannot for instance allow the importation of fish based on catalogue numbers (ie L168 or L52) as these are not scientific and is just a means to catalogue fish discovered in new locations or possible new local variations, so it never once said that they would allow L168 or L52 or L104... or for that matter, whatever L-number. The L-number has no bearing on the fish as far as I'm sure AQIS is concerned. However, they did put a common name to it as "Clown Pleco". Lo and behold.... common names vary. And Clown pleco is quite often refering to Panaquolus maccus. http://www.google.com.my/search?hl=en&q=clown+pleco&meta= So Markus, it probably is true that only one store in Sydney has got what is correctly Dekeyseria brachyura (junior synonym D.pulcher), and will be getting a lot more of them shortly. L168/L52. The rest seem to be Panaquolus maccus, L104.... correct as far as the common name. I was a bit surprised to see the going wholesale price of these supposed L168 on Bayfish, as they were extremely cheap. Now that we're clear that they are not L168 and are in fact L104, it makes far more sense. L104 is only less than half the price of L52 on overseas exporter price list. The true L168 (which come out on Brazilian exporter's lists) are about 1/3 more expensive than L52 even though having seen both, it would be impossible to tell the difference once mixed up. Wui, errrm, i think AQIS knows very well that there is a black market in plecos in Aust (look at the lady they busted in Melb.... she had PLECOS! L66). Adding D.pulcher on it doesn't make any difference. Infact what they should have done was to put Hypancistrus zebra on the list instead. At least there would be little confusion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boots n all Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Ummm yes L046 would have been better on the list, no confusing as it must be the most pictured catfish out there. But would have they been able to find enough to supply the market? at least the L168 is to well known to breed and have good numbers in a spawn making it of interest to commercial breeders (good supply)whilst the 046 does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Can't argue about the L46 being on the list So now that you say that AQIS didn't use L numbers but in fact put the common name to the fish, would they care what was brought in as long as its labelled "Clown Pleco"? So if they were to stop all imports of the "Clown Pleco", would it not have been their mistake in the first place to not correctly specify what was allowable? Reminds me of another Government department regarding a certain road/tunnel in Sydney. They made a mistake and now are trying to force the blame on other parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 No Wui - the list AQIS works off has a scientific name, they use a common name as simply a further idientifier for whoever chooses to take note of it. The list does not now have open slather imports on anything labelled 'clown pleco' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus13 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Bear in mind if they were to allow L46 it would have to be captive bred stock as this species is now CITES listed and can no longer legally be sourced from the wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 The crux of the matter is AQIS's reliance on Fishbase for their information. http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=49973 In all truth Dekeyseria pulcher (Stiendachner, 1915) is not even a valid scientific name! It is a junior synonym to Dekeyseria brachyura (Kner, 1854). That said, the genus name has been bouncing between Dekeyseria and Zonancistrus, I'm really not even sure where it's at now. AQIS cannot for instance allow the importation of fish based on catalogue numbers (ie L168 or L52) as these are not scientific and is just a means to catalogue fish discovered in new locations or possible new local variations, so it never once said that they would allow L168 or L52 or L104... or for that matter, whatever L-number. The L-number has no bearing on the fish as far as I'm sure AQIS is concerned. However, they did put a common name to it as "Clown Pleco". Lo and behold.... common names vary. And Clown pleco is quite often refering to Panaquolus maccus. http://www.google.com.my/search?hl=en&q=clown+pleco&meta= So which is which then? They use scientifc names that no one is even sure about or common names which apply to 2 different fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 AQIS is not a scientific agency... They can't keep up with all the changes. D.pulcher is defunct as a scientific name, hence as an importer, u may not find this listed on an overseas supplier's list (They may be a bit more up to date or a bit less up to date, so they may be listed as D.brachyura or Zonancistrus pulcher/brachyura, but unless u're reasonably well versed in Catfish, it may not be easy.). However, if you bring in "Dekeyseria brachyura" on your shipping invoice, AQIS will likely confiscate the fish or at least make you hunt down a whole lot of scientific papers to prove it othewise. (In all likelihood, they'd probably just take the fish!). Some of the importers, in their search for this new allowable importable fish, may not be able to find the scientific name on their supplier's list and hence look to the common name, "Clown pleco", and rename it as how AQIS would like it "scientifically" named. Alas, Clown pleco is more commonly known as P.maccus. My proposal would be to update the scientific name with synonyms and a more often used "common name" - Butterfly pleco or Pretty pleco Even this will not be full-proof. I can almost understand how the AQIS officers could get it wrong.... L168/L52 D.brachyura are notoriously hard to tell apart from L104 when stressed in the shipping bags or in bare tanks in the quarantine room. Maybe the solution to this would be to allow the Panaquolus sp as well as the Dekeyseria sp as allowable imports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 AQIS is not a scientific agency... They can't keep up with all the changes. D.pulcher is defunct as a scientific name, hence as an importer, u may not find this listed on an overseas supplier's list (They may be a bit more up to date or a bit less up to date, so they may be listed as D.brachyura or Zonancistrus pulcher/brachyura, but unless u're reasonably well versed in Catfish, it may not be easy.). However, if you bring in "Dekeyseria brachyura" on your shipping invoice, AQIS will likely confiscate the fish or at least make you hunt down a whole lot of scientific papers to prove it othewise. (In all likelihood, they'd probably just take the fish!). Some of the importers, in their search for this new allowable importable fish, may not be able to find the scientific name on their supplier's list and hence look to the common name, "Clown pleco", and rename it as how AQIS would like it "scientifically" named. Alas, Clown pleco is more commonly known as P.maccus. My proposal would be to update the scientific name with synonyms and a more often used "common name" - Butterfly pleco or Pretty pleco Even this will not be full-proof. I can almost understand how the AQIS officers could get it wrong.... L168/L52 D.brachyura are notoriously hard to tell apart from L104 when stressed in the shipping bags or in bare tanks in the quarantine room. Maybe the solution to this would be to allow the Panaquolus sp as well as the Dekeyseria sp as allowable imports? :woot: ← I couldn't agree more with the last comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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