Whitespot

[Josh]

It wont happen to me, But I would atleast have the decency, as a hobbiest to say something. After all we are here for the fish.

I see no reason to name the store. It has done nothing wrong.

Its people like you that help tarnish LFS reputations and drive people from them.

So you bought some fish that may have been below par once...cry a river....build a bridge.... and get over it. We have all been stung, but most of us move on.

*edit*

I will take novafishy's name out of my post

[teflon]

It wont happen to me, But I would atleast have the decency, as a hobbiest to say something. After all we are here for the fish.

I see no reason to name the store. It has done nothing wrong.

Its people like you that help tarnish LFS reputations and drive people from them.

So you bought some fish that may have been below par once...cry a river....build a bridge.... and get over it. We have all been stung, but most of us move on.

*edit*

I will take novafishy's name out of my post 

←

I think from now on i will put you on ignore or something your really giving me a headache like a little "yap yap" dog

[Josh]

[novafishy]

Hey guys,

First of all, I would like to say that my intention was not to attack/bash the LFS selling the sick fish. Read my original post. I merely asked a question.

and secondly, I wont be mentioning the name of the LFS, so don't PM me.

[Ash]

Did you ask the staff what the go was Nova?

Not attacking you or anything, just wanting to know if you did ask?

[Lee Miller]

Hi all,

Waz asked:

So people can be warned and the not so experienced in this hobby can avoid

having their hearts broken when they lose their entire collection of fish. 

Would love to hear your comments.

Waz probably asked this because he and I both know a couple who bought fish infected with whitespot from a 'reputable' lfs and lost every fish in their tank as a direct result.

I later learned that this particular lfs sold infected fish AND sold the medication with the fish (no reduced prices). Is this the most brilliant (but totally irresponsible) marketing strategy you've ever heard of?

Cheers,

Lee.

[BlakeyBoyR]

Lee that is craptacular on their behalf, and the type of behaviour that does indeed deserve a name and shame. I've never to the best of my knowledge sold a fish with whitespot to a customer. Whenever I net a fish in a tank, I check the fish out before bagging it. If there is something wrong with just that fish, I get a different one then do something about that one fish, if its the whole tank, I make sure it is treated and not left. I'd hope anyone else at a reputable LFS would do the same.

In regards to whether in this instance the LFS should've been named, I agree that we live in a society now where customers are being screwed so often that as a general rule, people want blood when they hear a fellow customer (or in this case hobbyist) is being ripped off so that they can boycott the store. If you can prove that a store is intentionally being deceptive and dodgy in their dealings then fine, let it be known. However in this case you dont, none of us do. There is no proof at all that the LFS would've sold the fish, or more to the point even knew the tank was infected. Is it fair to tarnish a reputation and costs someone business because they quite simply may not have known one tank had whitespot? I think not.

As for Teflon .... where do I start mate. You're belligerent and antagonistic and I am amazed the mods have been as patient with you as they have. But beyond that, HAVE you ever worked at an LFS? Especially on a weekend? Have you ever worked somewhere with literally hundreds of tanks and thousands of fish? Have you then tried knowing what is happening in every tank when you have a store full of customers? Yes fish health is important I agree, and selling sick fish is not on, however the whole idea of an LFS is to serve customers as best you can, in doing that you're often flat out and dont have time to spend a few minutes checking each tank. If you have 200 tanks, and spent 2 minutes properly diagnosing each tank, that's 400minutes or nearly 7hours looking at tanks, doesnt really sound logical now does it? Even at one minute a tank, thats still over 3 hours mate.

Teflon you said LFS workers/owners should know the do's and dont's of selling fish, I agree. However you dont know they'd have sold the fish. Perhaps they were busy paying attention to the biggest 'DO' there is in retail, DO serve the customers. They werent given the opportunity to implement the DONT sell sick fish policy. You're right, it isnt fair to expect your average Joe to ask if the tank has whitespot, which is why they may very well have gone to net the fish and said "Geez sorry mate these fish are sick, I cant sell them to you", like I have on many occasions working at various LFS.

I also dont think you can compare a pet shop with dogs that have sores all over them, and a tank with whitespot. How many pet shops do you know that have a few hundred different dog enclosures and a few thousand dogs? Im no vet, but I dont know of any disease that can make a dog appear fine in the morning, yet covered in spots at night. However I can tell you from personal experience a tank can be fine and healthy at 9am and showing white spot at 5.30pm. Is this cruelty to fish? No, it's reality mate. Comparing a fish with whitespot to a dog covered in sores though, now that seems to be a fine example of a break from reality.

[Dark Morelia]

[teflon]

So tell me when somebody that works at an LFS comes into work say 9am by 12 noon they haven't seen the tanks or checked the fish in it? Seems abit far fetched that they walk in walk behind the counter and dont check/feed/clean the tanks before opening. I dont see why you would need to look at tanks for upto a minute even a 10 second check on the fish and take would be sufficient enough to check for fish health and the tank in general.

I think its time to stop making "what ifs" "buts" and whatever else you want to say, And start becoming realistic

[Dark Morelia]

Yes teflon, it is time to become realistic isn't it ?.

So why don't you stop making what ifs and buts about a job you've obviously never been in - although you still haven't answered my or Blakey's question about that.

As far as i can see you're the only one making any what ifs or whatnot.

The ifs and buts in running a LFS are par for the course, they're not there just to aggravate you.

Blakey has told you how it is, and just because you're not satisfied with how it is doesn't mean you can carry on in such a fashion.

It's not at all farfetched to walk in, and rather than be able to walk behind the counter, you'll more likely be running about trying to organise stuff, turning on registers, sorting money, tidying up, a million other things, and then there's always the early customers banging on the door even though it's 15 mins to opening time, or if you arrive a little late, you'll have a nifty little crowd waiting for you, whom you'll have to serve straight away.

That's of course if you're opening. If the shop's already opened, then you'll most probably walk in on a bunch of customers waiting to be served, a flustered co-worker, and you'll be serving someone before you even glance at the counter.

And of course, you'll be very observant at closing time after that last customer decided to buy all the kuhli loaches in that 4ft tank with the rocks in.

Or tracking down the last spiny eel in the 3ft with 10cm of gravel.

Or maybe you'll be too busy counting money, making up orders, cleaning up around the counter, stocking the shelves......

About the only time you'll get to check out the livestock will be your lunchbreak, if, of course you have enough of a break in customers to take one !

So why don't you just try shutting up about something you obviously have no idea about, stop telling people how to do a job you've never done, and stop arguing with them when they tell you how it's done !!!

[Ash]

Amen DM & Blakey!!

Teflon, have you worked in retail at all? For that matter, have you ever had any customer service oriented job full stop?

You seem to think people get paid to sit on their hands all day or something, which is the most unrealistic assumption in this thread.

I'm not having a go at you - in a perfect world yes, they should always be on top of the livestock's health - but since when is this world perfect?

[mark_1]

i believe that they should not sell any infected fish with any with spot or other problems

[Ash]

Mark_1 - no-one is disputing that - all we are saying is they may not yet have been aware of it

[teflon]

Amen DM & Blakey!!  :

Teflon, have you worked in retail at all?  For that matter, have you ever had any customer service oriented job full stop?

You seem to think people get paid to sit on their hands all day or something, which is the most unrealistic assumption in this thread.

I'm not having a go at you - in a perfect world yes, they should always be on top of the livestock's health - but since when is this world perfect?

←

My mother owns a home wares store so what do you think the answer is?

The rule that comes first before the customers is "make sure the stock isnt damaged" and it should get checked BEFORE anything. You might sell 100 plates yet 30 may be cracked does that sound like a good business to you?

Also I am a Chef and if i can check every single meal that leaves the kicthen whilst making 80 litres of stock/preping/ordering/cooking/checking coolroom temp/checking oven temp/ making sure my staff are safe and running the kitchen in genral for upto 18 hours somedays i think its safe to say that the LFS was just down right lazy and not doing their jobs

BTW we do over 700 orders a night and iI haven't had a complaint of a steak with mold cause i can seem to check them whilst doing other things

[Matty]

Hey teflon, which restaurant are you a chef at?

[r.d.m]

So tell me when somebody that works at an LFS comes into work say 9am by 12 noon they haven't seen the tanks or checked the fish in it?

i'd hate to have to do this at st george aquarium i think it'd take a week to check all the tanks

[Gav]

st george very rarely seem to get white spot anyway cos they are so proactive in preventing it.

[BlakeyBoyR]

Yeah Gav, it's the same where I work. We run antibiotics and medications through the systems proactively just to prevent infections like white spot from breaking out.

And teflon you still dont get it. No one is disputing that you shouldnt sell fish with whitespot, what we are disputing is that the shop may not have sold them anyway.

To use your steak analogy, it would be like having a cool room with a few thousands different food items. The vast majority of those food items, the ones you use regularly, are going to be in good condition. However, lets pretend there are items you rarely cook or sell, and as such have little call to check on. Lets say there is 6 special mushrooms, sitting quitely in a corner. Now you might only get an order for these mushrooms once a week, and as you're flat out making other orders, you dont notice that one of the mushrooms has some mould on it. Now lets pretend you get an order for a dish using these mushrooms, and you go to grab them out of the coolroom only to notice that one mushroom has mould on it. Obviously you wouldnt use those mushrooms and pass them on to the diner, but what if the diner had seen the mushrooms themselves? Would it be right for them to assume you'd have cooked their meal using those dodgy mushrooms? Of course not. You know full well that you wouldn't have used them, and you'd probably be quite miffed they'd even suggest such a thing.

It is the exact same situation we are talking about with this LFS and the fish with whitespot. Those fish, as someone mentioned, were exotics, the LFS version of those special mushrooms. The LFS workers may have been so busy serving up hamburgers and other staples (in the LFS these might be tetras or goldfish) that they didnt notice something wrong with the less commonly called for mushrooms. Do you get what Im saying? Im trying really hard here to try and get through to you what I'm saying. I hope you can see my point of view.

[BaZ]

I think it's loud and clear Blakey.

Well said

[Ducksta]

Now I'm hungry... I love mushrooms

[Ash]

So in this kitchen Teflon - do you check the ingredients are off all day every day whilst the customers browse though your fridge picking which piece of steak/chicken/fish they specifically want??

Regarding your steak with mould - did you check it over in the fridge every 5 minutes or when you got it out to cook it?

Apples & oranges mate

edit: blakey beat me to it

[onlyme]

Having had a bit to do with fish and wholesalers and shops in recent times I can say that white spot is a real problem for the industry. I suspect at times it happens to all retailers, it is just a matter of how well they contain it. It is highly contageous. Keeping fish at home in tanks as a hobbyist is completely different to running fish in commercial premises for resale. I would suggest to you that keeping fish like that is the ultimate test of ones fish keeping ability, it aint easy!!!

Craig.

[teflon]

I think it's loud and clear Blakey.

Well said 

←

So in this kitchen Teflon - do you check the ingredients are off all day every day whilst the customers browse though your fridge picking which piece of steak/chicken/fish they specifically want?? 

Regarding your steak with mould - did you check it over in the fridge every 5 minutes or when you got it out to cook it?

Apples & oranges mate

edit: blakey beat me to it

←

It is the same thing I am hired by my boss to insure quality and freshness and preperation of food. When I get into work in the morning i have to

1)Check and log coolroom temps

2)Check and log pilot lights

3)Check and log oven temps

4)Recieve over 400 different food stuffs from delivery dock

5)Write a Prep list for my kitchen staff

6)Memorize Bookings/functions

7)Insure freshness and quality of ALL foodstuffs in coolroom and dry store

8)Turn on and check fan extractors

9)Get the kitchenhand to clean coolroom

And i seem to be able to do that withing 1 and a half hours (6am)

Then i have to run the kitchen and cook for another 16 hours, then write prep lists for the next day if im off, then i order for the next day, Log coolroom temp/oven temp/turn extractors off, Turn pilots on and then knock off only to do a 1 and a half hour train trip home.

So how somebody cant check tanks in that time is beyond me. half an hour in my book is enough time to check 200 tanks. Now stop making excuses because I dont beleive a word of it

BTW we do stock exotic mushrooms we use many different kinds. And nothing gets over looked because thats what we are hired for.

It likes going and buying a tank only to find that the silicone has a leak and the supplier saying "Am I meant to check every tank i make" its the same difference.

Bottom line Is that they aren't doing their jobs and people that don't do their jobs deserved to get the sack

[Dark Morelia]

How often do mushrooms develop mould between the hours of 9AM and 5PM ?

How often do mushrooms fight with each other, cause stress and get mould ?

How often do mushrooms arrive from the wholesaler covered in mould ?

How often do diners bring in their own mushrooms covered in mould and expect you to buy them ?

How long do you have to stand in front of the mushroom tank trying to catch just the right mushroom with a customer breathing down your neck ?

I'm sure i could think of more, but i hope this gets my point across... "stock" and "livestock" are very different things.

Someone had better hire teflon for their LFS !

I mean, he'd be so good at it, as he's already stated, you've only got to glance for a few seconds at each tank (all few hundred/thousand of 'em), then stand behind the counter serving people

[NB - this is sarcasm.]

[teflon]

More excuses, thats all they are!

If somebody can't do their job they should get fired. If they cant check tanks with customers breathing down their necks then DONT get a job at an LFS.

BTW we do have problems on occassions with stock, But we handle them because thats what we have been hired to do. And I would like to know which aquarium you have been to that have had "thousands" of tanks running.

Im starting to think you own the LFS in questions, Guarding someone that has done something wrong now thats reputation for you