Dr Rock Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Interesting idea, but I want to keep the sump hiden. I am building up my tank as a display tank, so I want to keep all the media, heater etc hidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayden's dad Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 I have 2 different types of sumps/filters here... This one uses baffles to force the water through different types of media. It's quiet(ish) because it doesn't have any falling/trickling water in it. I bough the tank and then siliconed the baffles in myself, which wasn't as hard as I thought it might be. This sump sits on an old waterbed heat pad which does a great job Ok, now you've got my attention. for years I've had this old water bed heater pad sitting out in the garage. Each time I look at it, I think to myself, "May as well keep it, Troy. It's bound to come in handy for something one day." So, I'm assuming your sump sits ON top of the pad. If so, does it have any effects on the glass I should be wary of (I'm principally thinking c-r-a-c-k here!!)? Or is there something like a towel between the tank & heater pad? Best regards, Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 My heater is just slipped in between the tank and foam. No cracks yet, it's been used like this for around 4 years I think. I originally kept it as a home brew pad but needed it for a sump as a higher priority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 so where can you get pads like these? its probably a whole lot easier than stuffing around with glass heaters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Mine came from a waterbed which I stopped using about 8 years ago. I assume most bedding places would sell them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D6C1 Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 hmm I like the corner weird/sump.. my 6foot is full.. If I was to do something like that now, how easy would it be? I know.. stupid questions. Also, Do you find good water flow through the weir and out of the hole at the bottom? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Here are a few pics of the sump under my 8 footer, water enters the right hand side were the heater is, then though the pipes over dacron then gutter guard, then through some calcium carbonate , then sponge, and pumped back to tank. it works but is not how I want it yet... Things that will be changed will include: removing the pipes in the sump that distribute the water over the dacron and replacing them with a sheet of polyurathane that is drilled heavily. replacing the stocking of calcium carbonate and filling this entire section and under the gutterguard with course crushed coral, ~ 2cm size pieces...if i can find any filling the area above the gutter guard with bioballs so they are in the air space, and installing weirs on the tank instaed of bulkhead fittings, or drilling th eholes bigger so that there is greater water flow to the sump., currently 2/3 of the water is returned to the sump, and only about 900l/h is actually circulating, the tropheus will love the extra current aswell. And this entire sump is on a trolly so when it need s a good service it is too easy, and can be slide out about 40cm while still going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayden's dad Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I've noticed a few people using sponges. Why? I can imagine that they would be excellent for removing microbubbles. Any other reason(s)? Best regards, Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Troy I use them as a cheap alternative to bio balls. They will not remove micro bubbles, I use them along with a finer media to remove the finer debris. They are mainly used to either pre-filter the finer media, or as a biological media, or both. The main advantage with these is the amount of surface area within. And at $1 for a pack of 9 they certainly fill a sump a lot cheaper than bio balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I use the filter sponge for a few reasons it prevents any of the biofilm getting back to the tank if it has been sloughed of the biomedia. it stops any of the calcium carbonate chips from entering the pump area. it has a bacteria bank type quality so if i do have to clean out the media for any reason it will still be present in the sponge, and tank i soppose it will filter out any very small particles nicely, it helps keep any bristlenoses that may be present from entering the pump area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayden's dad Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Troy I use them as a cheap alternative to bio balls. They will not remove micro bubbles, I use them along with a finer media to remove the finer debris. They are mainly used to either pre-filter the finer media, or as a biological media, or both. The main advantage with these is the amount of surface area within. And at $1 for a pack of 9 they certainly fill a sump a lot cheaper than bio balls. ← Well that does surprise me. I would have thought they would have been ideal for micro bubble removal. Guess I'll just have to stick to the old baffle solution . Are they oyster shells in there, Baz? I'm guessing they are the calcium carbonate equivalent trofius uses. I used to own a saltwater tank & I know certain people recommend not to use bioballs there because they are a nitrate factory. I got by then using live rock for the biological filtration. I'm designing the sump for my new Oscars tank from ideas here & I've seen ceramic chips for sale in LFS's. I already have the bio balls from previous tanks. Apart from the bioballs & filter wool, what other media should I consider using. I'm only putting Oscars in the tank - no plants. Please also note that I use marble chips & quartz chips for the tank substrate. I know this has an effect on the water but I'm not sure what. I've used it with the other tanks I've had that have contained Oscars & they seemed to survive ok & be happy (or grouchy) enough. Anyone's factual thoughts (not speculation) is genuinely appreciated. Best regards, Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 from what i have read quarts is not the best for tanks as it can contain trace amounts of not so freindly elements and (not sure about this) but can actually lower the pH. Marble chips are also a more inert form of calcium bound in a different way and has little to no effect on water chemistry, othger types of biomedia, that i have seen used include gutterguard, nylon scourers, sponge, bioballs, ceramic thingy, scoria, course coral, rocks, fishing line, onion bags, old keyboard buttons! lego, whatever. etc, really anything will do as long as it will not give off anything undesirable, in a fresh water set up i beleive that most people over filter their tanks, I have seen 6x2x2 tanks filled with fish with mybe 2 large bubbler filters in it! the tank was of course dirty on the bottom , but the biological element was taken care of ( i dont think these people new what a water change was? the fish were breeding and acting pretty normal, the ones you could see, anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Well that does surprise me. I would have thought they would have been ideal for micro bubble removal. Guess I'll just have to stick to the old baffle solution . Are they oyster shells in there, Baz? I'm guessing they are the calcium carbonate equivalent trofius uses. Sorry Troy I mis-read your originial question. I thought you were asking about scourers but you were in fact asking about sponges. Refer to trofius's post which answers your question correctly Yes there is a bag of oyster shells in my sump for buffering, and also a bag of limestone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayden's dad Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 from what i have read quarts is not the best for tanks as it can contain trace amounts of not so freindly elements and (not sure about this) but can actually lower the pH. Marble chips are also a more inert form of calcium bound in a different way and has little to no effect on water chemistry Can anyone elaborate more on this, please? I've used the quartz for years & the fish always seemed happy enough (I know it's an old cliche).....at least as happy as fully grown, paired up, territorial Oscars can be . Yes there is a bag of oyster shells in my sump for buffering, and also a bag of limestone. So would the marble chips &/or quartz that I use for substrate serve the same purpose? Best regards, Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 ok my bad. the main componants of both limestone, and marble is calcium carbonate, I thought that the marbel has some other elements bound to it to limit its ability to disolve in water, or that i twas structured differently, from a chemical point of view. so now i am confuzzled what is the difference between limestone and marble, and is the calcium carbonate that you can buy just a more pure product? EDIT: Ok wow what an amazing thing google is , IF you use the correct words, here is a link that is not too bad, my intepretation of this is that marble is harder and more inert , less disolvable due to some crosslinkages formed by heat and pressure, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I understand it the same as you trofius. I have crushed marble in my tanks as a substrate and i think it buffers a bit but not as well as limestone or shells. But I'm certainly not a geologist. There's some good stuff in the faq forum on rocks, have you checked that out Troy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayden's dad Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I understand it the same as you trofius. I have crushed marble in my tanks as a substrate and i think it buffers a bit but not as well as limestone or shells. But I'm certainly not a geologist. There's some good stuff in the faq forum on rocks, have you checked that out Troy? ← Thanks Baz. I'll do so later today or tonight. Best regards, Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Quartz doesnt affect pH. Marble is (roughly) the metamorphic equivalent of limestone (I think, I'm a biologist, not a geologist {Andrea will correct me if I'm wrong}). In short: Quartz: no affect on pH or kH (its silica dioxide I think) Limestone/Marble: increase pH, kH (& maybe gH) (they both contain calcium carbonate (and possibly small amounts some other elements thus gH)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayden's dad Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Quartz doesnt affect pH. Marble is (roughly) the metamorphic equivalent of limestone (I think, I'm a biologist, not a geologist {Andrea will correct me if I'm wrong}). In short: Quartz: no affect on pH or kH (its silica dioxide I think) Limestone/Marble: increase pH, kH (& maybe gH) (they both contain calcium carbonate (and possibly small amounts some other elements thus gH)). ← Ahh....phew! I had terrible thoughts of having to sit up until the cows come home seperating this stone from that one, this one from that one, this one from that.....you get the idea. Best regards, Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngy_11 Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 hi i am going to get a sump. That is goiing to be running around 600l of water. The sump is a 2ft tank and i am going to be using 75% of it for the filter medium. I have been reading through the topic and have learnt many things. My LFS told me to use shell grit. I have about 10kgs of it, 2ltr pond matrix plus some wool to get rid of the crap. . Do you think that it is enough for should i get some of those sponges that baz explained? Also where is the best place to get them? thanks youngy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 trofius how do you find using guttertguard as an alternative to using bioballs(im assuming thats what its doing in your filter.i bought some to use and got conflicting reports on it was just wondering what someone who uses it thinks of it.also baz do you use your sponges in your sump as an alternative to bioballs or are they for a different reason? jason ps baz while ive got you is your rack made of wood or steal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Ok Youngy and Jason are you guys talking about the sponge or the scourers? I got caught out answering this before The scourers are used instead of bio balls. They tend to trap some of the bigger particles and also give a big surface area for bacteria. Beneath these I have a layer of sponge. This is to trap the fine particles before the water is pumped back to the tanks. Jason my stands are all timber. I am no good with a welder but seem to manage ok with timber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 yellow, I find the gutter guard does a pretty good job as biomedia, you can actually see the biofilm on it now. it has been in this filter for about 6 months now, and have never had any dramas. there is 46 fish (5-13cm) in the 8x2x2 tank.and get fed a fair bit aswell. I was going to fill the area above the gutter guard with bioballs up to the dacron tray so there biomedia out of the water aswell. in thgis sump there is 5 full rolls of gutter guard, 4 are as i bought them, i just zip tied them so they didnt unroll, a fith ios laying out over these 4 which sit nicely side by side in the sump. i may get anoter 4 rolls yet instead of the bio balls i was planning on. You should prbably note that along with the gutter guard there is also the dacron that would house bacteria and the two large sponges , as well as the calcium carbonate, I went for the gutter guard as it was cheap, up here at bunnings $2 a roll, and have seen some stuff in Big W that is half the size, ie 5mm holes instead of 10mm holes, so even more surface area and for only $1.95 a roll. it may not have the same surface area of bioballs but way cheaper $20 will fill the area, in bioballs that would be about $100. ~ 50L worth of space!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngy_11 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Yea BAZ i am talking about the bio media scourers. Like you have said they are much cheaper than bio balls and do the same job. What do you think is better the scourers or gutter guard. And how much are the scoures. Because gutter guard is pretty cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilal Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 go-lo sells the scourers for $1 for a packet of 9 i bought 10 bags of them yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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