Nigel Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Well Gav thats my opinion. I guess your intitled to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 It all sounds to much like a hard sell to me. Nigel In case you missed this in my initial comment in this thread .... I don't sell New Life Spectrum to Australians. As far as that goes, I only sell it to Canadians, and considering the fact that I'm the only Canadian that's read this discussion (or probably ever will), I don't think it's going to be improving my sales too much. For those of you that learned a thing or two about fish food, glad I could be of assistance. Happy fish keeping! Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Thats the good thing about this forum Neil everyone can have there say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Use NLS, don't use NLS, that's totally up to you .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 I think I will give people my experience with this food. When it first come on the market here I tried it but not on Tropheus. I used it for about 6 months on a variety of fish. I found no difference in there colour or health from any other food on the market here. I have no problem that its a good quality food but if its better than any other on the market I dont know but in my experience no. What I do know is I think its to expensive for what you get. Thats my opinion on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Nigel ........ did you feed NLS exclusively during that 6 month period? Here's what 70+ people have said about NLS food. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/reviews/view_...view.php?id=286 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOrange Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 I've just got some of this stuff. Read all the reviews etc and thought i'd give it a go. I bought the cichlid forumla, just the regular version. Pellets are too small for my big e.yellows, but i suppose that is why they have different types depending on the size of the fish so I will invest in some larger pellets. Been using it for 4 days so far on e.yellows and demasoni. People have warned me about protein and demasoni but so far no side effects. One thing i can conclude so far is that the fish love it. Can't get enough of it really. The food doesnt even touch the bottom before its all gone and thats saying something because these pellets sink very quickly. Cant conclude yet if im happy with it or not, obviously 4 days isnt long enough to conclude anything. Price would be a definate factor in how many people use this product. I would be interested in seperating a brood of fry between 2 tanks with the same maintenance routine, feed 1 NLS and the other what ive been feeding my fish previously (sera flora) and compare the differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebe Posted March 23, 2005 Author Share Posted March 23, 2005 OK one more question about food What about the trade staple foods used In aquaculture? There feed has to be of standards for human consumption (because we eat the fish) Is this stuff any good In relation to fish digestion systems i think orca or something like that is the OZZ one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Unless your L. caeruleus are over 6" (and I certainly hope they are not) the 1 mm sized pellets are plenty big enough. I personally wouldn't use the larger 3 mm pellets (Large Fish Formula) for any species of fish under 6". I maintain species tanks of L. caeruleus (tank bred strains as well as F1's) and I use the Cichlid formula exclusively in those tanks. Jebe - NLS is also made from human grade ingredients. Someone recently asked me if the ingredients in NLS are all safe for their fish, I tossed some pellets in my mouth, chewed them up, and asked them if that was safe enough for them? LOL On the flip side, many aquaculture feeds are not safe for African cichlids. More info here: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=77303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebe Posted March 23, 2005 Author Share Posted March 23, 2005 yum yum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Nigel, I understand what you mean about too much information, it can get confusing. But at least the information we are getting on NLS is not contradictory, and the product itself is not difficult to understand (such as it is to make a purchasing discission buying a new television). I agree, with you in regards to any colour differences when feeding Tropheus. My K1’s have been feed for over a year now, and I honestly can’t say I see a colour difference. But then part of that may be that the fish can turn their colours off and on… I agree with you on the costing side of things too. On the assumption that purchasing in bulk will get the price down I would like to purchase it in bulk, but am unaware if it is available for purchase in large tubs, . It is my belief that the NLS is the best dry food on the market, and wether the fish’s colour improves or not, the peace of mind gained using this product for this reason alone is makes it worth considering using it. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I am with you Craig I have no problem with the food. I just think the hype that goes with it is a bit misguided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I posted this to someone the other day, and perhaps this will address the hype you speak of. Most African cichlids will eat anything you toss in their tank, and most will survive on it. Overall they are very tough fish, and very forgiving when it comes to inadequate diets. The true acid test with NLS is with SW fish. How many fish food manufacturers can you name that are able to keep some of the very delicate marine species thriving on an exclusive diet of dry pellet food? Marine species they have managed to keep healthy (for years) on an exclusive diet of *any* of their foods? Not your typical saltwater species, but some of the very difficult to keep in captivity ones, that are known for hole in the head disease, lateral line erosion, etc. Species such as Butterfly Fish, Parrot Fish, Philippine Regal Angels, Majestic Angels, Rock Beauty, Moorish Idol, and Achilles Tang. I know of only one commercial dry pellet manufacturer that can make such a claim, and can back it up with proof. That's right, New Life Spectrum. Delicate marine species that come straight in from the wilds of the ocean, and are switched over to an exclusive diet of NLS. Up until NLS was created, this was unheard of! These delicate species not only survive on an exclusive diet of NLS, they thrive! I was talking to Pablo's secretary today & she was quite excited because she was watching the Tomato Clownfish (Amphiprion frenatus) spawning ....... again. Not just thriving on an exclusive diet of NLS, but spawning every 2 weeks! When you maintain aquariums such as the ones at Atlantis Marine World, you can't afford to make mistakes based on marketing hype. Check out Joe Yaiullo's tank, he uses New Life Spectrum. http://www.deltecaquariumsolutions.com/JoeYaiullo.htm As does the Columbus Zoo, Mystic Aquarium in CT, the World Wildlife Zoo in Phoenix AZ, as well as many others. You won't find this info on the NLS web site, but Pablo doesn't feel the need to promote his food through hype, his food tends to sell itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I have been feeding, pre-soaked (for only a minute or so) NLS pellets mixed in with Sera Flora for over a year now to my K1s. They get it in one of their 2-3 feeding per day. Craig, I'm not sure how you can judge a foods color enhancing properties, when you dilute it with other food on a daily basis? I'm not attempting to tell anyone they must feed it exclusively, but in order to get the full effect in coloration as well as vitality, this is exactly what you have to do. In 7 years Pablo has only had one person take him up on his 10 day money back guarantee. If the 'hype' that has been created by hobbyists wasn't true, then I imagine Pablo would be out of business by now. How many other manufacturers offer such a guarantee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I think we should agree to disagree on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I have been using NLS for over a year now and didn't realise that it could be fed to tropheus until now! Thanks RD for your informative input. I will try to wean my tropheus into NLS over the next couple of weeks and see if there is any issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Craig, I'm not sure how you can judge a foods color enhancing properties, when you dilute it with other food on a daily basis? I'm not attempting to tell anyone they must feed it exclusively, but in order to get the full effect in coloration as well as vitality, this is exactly what you have to do. RD I wasn't aware that including other food other than NLS to a diet would have an impact on NLS ability to improve colour. Not sure as to why this would be, as if this is so it implies that foods other than NLS have the ability to negatively impact on a fish's colour. I am already sold on this food, was before this thread started, but personally just didn't think it made a difference to the colour of my K1s. I might try to feed NLS exclusively for the next ten days to see if I can see a difference. Thanks for the information. Most African cichlids will eat anything you toss in their tank, and most will survive on it. Overall they are very tough fish, and very forgiving when it comes to inadequate diets. The true acid test with NLS is with SW fish. I agree with this, could have written it myself. I am aware that there is no difference between NLS standard community food, and cichlid food by comparing the ingredients on the label. Please inform me of if there are any differences between NLS marine food and cichlid food. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I wasn't aware that including other food other than NLS to a diet would have an impact on NLS ability to improve colour. Not sure as to why this would be, as if this is so it implies that foods other than NLS have the ability to negatively impact on a fish's colour. Yes, of course that's possible. This would be the same if one ate a taco from one shop, then a burrito from another, and then tried to determine which one gave you the heartburn. See my point? NLS gives a guarantee with their food (which no other manufacturer has ever done), but only if you feed it exclusively. As soon as people start mixing foods there's really no way to determine what's helping, or not helping with the color & vitality of the fish. I am aware that there is no difference between NLS standard community food, and cichlid food by comparing the ingredients on the label. Please inform me of if there are any differences between NLS marine food and cichlid food. People ask me this a lot, and this is my standard response. Take this for what you will, all of the foods are formulated from the same "basic recipe", but each formula is tweaked by Pablo to what he feels is best for each group of fish that the food is sold for. The ingredients posted on the labels are nothing more than general guidelines. Competition is fierce in this industry, and Pablo's not going to provide any more info than that. I wish I could say more, but I'm afraid the rest of the ingredients information I will be taking to my grave with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Take this for what you will, all of the foods are formulated from the same "basic recipe", but each formula is tweaked by Pablo to what he feels is best for each group of fish that the food is sold for. The ingredients posted on the labels are nothing more than general guidelines. Competition is fierce in this industry, and Pablo's not going to provide any more info than that. What you are saying is that the NLS cichlid pellets, and the NLS pellets produced for standard community fish, even though the ingredients on both bottle are identical, are in fact “tweaked” to be more appropriate for either cichlids (Africans) or for community fish (tetras and so on), and so in fact are different? Contrary to what the label says? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Yes, of course that's possible. This would be the same if one ate a taco from one shop, then a burrito from another, and then tried to determine which one gave you the heartburn. See my point? RD I’ve given your analogy some thought, and the conclusion I’ve come to is that I don’t see your point. You have parrelled heartburn with improved colour in fish. If I ate a taco and a burrito from two different shops, and got heartburn, it is irrelevant as to which one gave me heartburn, as I will still have it. Correspondingly, if I feed my fish two different foods, one better than the other, and capable of improving colour, at the end of the day both foods are consumed. If both foods are continued to be feed, the fish eats the better colour enhancing food, and the fish’s colour improves. Or in the case of your analogy, the fish get heartburn – and it makes no difference to the heartburn if both foods are consumed as the fish will still have heartburn as both foods are consumed.... I’m not debating wether NLS can improve colour, just your heartburn example. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Craig ...... Once again, the ingredients posted on the labels are nothing more than general guidelines. This applies to all fish foods, don't expect manufacturers to state *everything* on a food label, it's not going to happen. Yes, the heartburn analogy probably wasn't the best example. Let's put it this way, when one feeds 2 types (or more) of food to a fish, how can one tell which food is doing what to the fishes health, and/or color? It's impossible to know what food is responsible for what. There is no other food on the market that contains the amount of natural color enhancers found in NLS, so by feeding other brands you are diluting the premium ingredients found in NLS. It's pretty straightforward I would think. When you add water to a glass of coke, it becomes watered down coke. How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Once again, the ingredients posted on the labels are nothing more than general guidelines. This applies to all fish foods, don't expect manufacturers to state *everything* on a food label, it's not going to happen RD I can appreciate this. If a manufacture put all the ingredients in the recipe, it would be one big step in another’s ability to copy the end product. However, I am currently using the NLS Community food (what ever it’s called), thinking that I had the same food that was in the cichlid NLS container. I in fact decant from this larger container into a smaller NLS cichlid container to reduce the amount of times I open the bigger container. I wanted a larger container of the NLS cichlid food than the shop had in stock, and I bought this community one instead as it was available in a bigger container. I looked at the ingredients in both containers and they were identical, and in Australia, (to me anyway), that means both foods are the same, only the labelling was different. So I bought it. I am sure I will not be the only person here that would make this assumption (heck – it’s not even an assumption as I just read it on the packaging), and until you mentioned otherwise, I had no idea that the ingredients were other than what was stated on the packaging. In fact shops will tell customers that the foods are the same and only the packaging is different, as this has been told to me with other brands of dry foods, with different packaging and the same ingredients listed. This lack of knowledge on my part is/was an issue. I am sure the NLS Community food will not hurt my Tropheus, but then, it is also not the best I could be feeding them. Which is counter to why I want to use NLS. so by feeding other brands you are diluting the premium ingredients found in NLS. I can accept this. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I have a problem with that - as to my knowledge, the laws in this country state that EVERY ingredient be included on a package. Formerly this was only foods for human consumption, but that law was revised to also include pet-foods. Is my understanding of the law incorrect? Or am I to assume that NLS pellets are being imported without adhering to Australian Standards? And also, is this the norm for fish foods? Do the powers that be just not care enough about fish food to check? edit: The reason I ask is I was interested in some food a while back, which had a miniscule amount of an ingredient that prevented it from being imported. The ingredient was nothing insidious, it just happened to be something that the law prohibits from being imported, even though it is something we export from here even If my memory serves me right, it may have been egg But it was years ago now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrdog Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Firstly, I feed NLS Cichlid to my Tropheus and will continue to do so BUT I think it is absolutely rediculous for a manufacturer of fish food to have the identicle ingredients on all their packaging when they claim to be for different fish. How was Craig supposed to know they were different foods when they had the same ingredients listed on them? I don't think any excuse should be tolerated in this example of misleading ingredients. I must say that I think NLS is a great food but this example has left a sour taste in my mouth (not from eating NLS) and a sense that there is a certain degree of arrogance in the NLS camp. I think the public deserve to know what they are purchasing. I betta stop now. Jamie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I think what RD is saying is that the ingredients are the same. They are listed in the order from greatest portion to smallest portion. All the foods have the same ingredients but the percentage of each ingredient is "tweaked" to make the different foods. Is that right RD? Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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