new to african cichlids, tank size and fish?

[extreoxy]

I have been doing planted soft water tanks for awhile and want to change over one of my tanks to african cichlids for a change of pace but really know nothing about them other than they like hard water, are generally bigger and more colourful. I have a 340 by 900 by 430 (mm W,L,D) tank is it even big enough? If so what kinds would I be looking at and can it be a community with different colours or single species?

I do like the electric yellows(labs?) but think they might be too big is there something similar but smaller? Any interesting ones? Would prefer smaller if possible not really into big/huge fish. My biggest fish I keep being angels but most I keep are tetra sized.

Anything else I should know or places to look at?

[Link2Hell]

Hi Extreoxy welcome to ACE

your tank would be fine for a colony of Electric Yellows as they are not as

aggressive as some of the other Mbuna from Malawi

what filtration will you be running ?

you can plant it with Val, Anubia and Java fern if you want plants

are there any other species that interest you from Lake Malawi or Tangayika

[extreoxy]

it currently has a eden 511 on it but i can probably swap it with a eheim 3 pro 250( i think that what it is) if more is needed the other tank doesn't really need the eheim with its load. Only really know of Electric Yellows not sure of any other, which why I would like good suggestions if possible or just your favorites. Makes it easier to narrow down whats a good choice.

[Buccal]

Is this for

1 display only ?

2 Or Breeding only ?

3 Or display but you want to breed and take out to fry to supply others also ?

4 Or display but you want them to breed but you'll never ever supply these fry to others and they'll stay in there ?

Which one do you think you are ????

How often at most are you willing to do 30-40% water changes ????

Do you already have power heads or wave makers ????

(if not, a very small one that would likely be 3-4Watts).

It's a shame you havnt got a four footer, buts that's ok, because of your tank is a smallish size, (but Definetely fine and do-able providing you make the correct choices),, you may as well go the extra mile giving good airation, excellent filtration that's usually double the size of the recommendation, water change weekly, feed sera-flora, maintain 24-27'c with 27'c best, GH KH 8-9 but KH levels are a little more important to be correct than GH (good buffers balances water chemistry well), very thin layer and fine grade substrate (so waiste isn't depositing under, may see tank bottom in areas but worth it) :::::::::

No reason to have any problems unless you haven't studied up or already know the nitrogen cycle part being the needed life line being beneficial bacteria living in your filters.

Having all these above in check will allow you to push the boundaries a little.

Also keeping in mind your tank size should see less scaping or ornamentation to maximase room for fish.

See fish that need territory to mix with others will be given at minimum,,,,, trying to keep open space in favor.

If you can answer a few of the top questions so I can give a suggestion or two,,,, electric yellow are a best no 1 choice always, but pay more for better ones....

[Chuckmeister]

It is a small tank. With many africans floor space is quite important. For a little tank like that I'd recommend a species only tank like E. Yellows which are a mid sized african or if you want a little more to look at then maybe yellows(a couple) for the mid depth and some mbuna like cobwe for the bottom, although cobwe can get pretty aggressive if breeding. They could easily control a whole tank of that size and you'd have a war zone.

For me personally

if I had a tank that was only 30cm wide (regardless of length) I'd try out some tanganyikans like shell dwellers., maybe a couple L Ocellatus, L. caudopunctatus. You could look at fish like calvus or A. compresiceps. They have small footprints but they will defend their own territory quite vigorously so you still need to be mindful that although small you will create mayhem if not well thought out. Also with alot of tangs, they are collectibles so you will likely have to chase the quality ones down but its what separates peoples tanks from shop bought stuff.

[extreoxy]

@buccal id say just display now since its a small tank and can't get more atm. I don't breed any of my soft water fish, but it does happen in my 500L tank with BNs and corydoras Sterbai and my angels had a go at it but I wasn't interested in raising them. .

Water changes for my big tank currently 2 weeks to a month but it has plants to keep down nitrates, my other small tank rarely due to small load and lots of plants. Since african cichlids can't really have plants, I would have to change weekly doubt you could leave longer? Are the Ocean Free Hydra worth getting for this was just reading about them?

I got no wave makers at all, i can swap the eden 511 to the ehim 3 pro 2073( had to move it to see the label) which swirls the other same sized tank around which is why the spray bar usually at 45 degree or back against the glass wall lol. If I need more flow I can buy a wave maker/power head that's no problem, getting new tanks is>_<.

@chuckmeister the shellies look nice, the A. compresiceps looks better than the calvus but there's something about there mouths/head I just don't like, i rather have less aggressive(more friendly?) fish so no to the cobwe(cobue?). Would the shellies work with the E yellows?Are the yellows, e yellows without the blacks strips? Whats the difference?

Any other fish suggestion or is there any good shops or other places in Melbourne i can check out for ideas? What do you guys use for substrate, coral sand? I have used pool filter sand with additives/ferts underneath and fluorite which both are way better than gravel.

[Buccal]

1cm layer o pool sand or play sand.

A few small rocks placed to rear left and right hand corners, but bring them in slightly closer to each other about 100mm away from outward corners. (this gives territory for breeding and/or breeding pits and males activity being out of site from one another).

I know you don't want to breed, but they'll go through the motions and holding females are likely to occur anyway.....

If elec yellows you've seen have barring in them, even faint or aren't super bright clear yellow, and you can't find decent ones, it's well worth having shipped from Doug (forum name Dfishkeeper) heaps of people around most states have bought from him continuing the line,,,,,,, well worth chasing these.

Without black strips, forget them, the classic yellow from Doug's line is very vibrant and vivid.

Just double the recommended filter size, obviously cannister to keep your tanks free open space.

And weekly water changes, and that's the bomb.

Follow all perameters I mentioned above.

Ok,,,, so if your going one species,,,, and you love yellows, then try 10 yellows as full size yellows will use up that tank.

If your going one species still, try a species with male and female both colorful but completely different color to each other,, like red/blue zebra morph male is blue female is red or something like lombardie being male bright yellow and female bright blue,,,,,, googling will reveal the species in this two color sex differences.

If your wanting to push limits as I suggested a little, then I'd say 8x yellows and 8x Pseudotropheus demasoni would be striking as I have in the past set up modest little tanks for people before with these two, and together they pop.

You may have to remove 1-3 after a year or so as the odd trouble maker could present.

Doug's yellow line has a very low aggression gene in them to.

You can get reccomendations all day till the cows come home.

But compatible, hardy, colorful and adult finished sized is what your considerations are I'd say.

Just stick to sera-flora.

[Buccal]

Keep us updated with your decisions up to final outcome. .

[Link2Hell]

Yellows and Maingano are a good combination and the toned horizontal blue strips

go well with the yellow

https://youtu.be/QcC7Y1oGZK0

[Link2Hell]

others to consider are Msobo and Saulosi with blue males and yellow females

[yellows]

Msuli Yellow Tail Acei and Electric Yellows would go nice together, both of which I breed but in separate tanks

[extreoxy]

was looking at live fish to get idea for what was out there, so many ha, I like the Pseudotropheus demasoni but there's a review saying it was very aggro? would the Maingano be a better choice with electric yellows? The Saulosi are nice good contrast with the blue/yellow. Is it possible to get 3 species in the tank, 2 top/mid and a shell dweller( think they are interesting but a bit plainer) ? Clean up crew?, some bristle nose? How many would I be looking at fitting in safely for the tank size? Ill use http://www.aqadvisor.comlater when closer to knowing what i want.

Guess ill go have a look at some shops on the weekend to see what is out there too and ask questions, where else is a good place to look or buy, including online?

@Buccla kinda confused are the elec yellows different from yellow or just better quality? elec yellows should have those black strips? How do you contact Doug? website email?

[Chuckmeister]

yellows and maingano would be a nice choice for sure !!

[raychill]

Yellows and rusties

[extreoxy]

Finally got around to setting up my tank, currently has 2 bristlenose in it. Has a 2073 eheim and a OF hydra40 for filtration. I had a talk with parents to get another opinion on what they like; the electric yellows, yellow tail acei and red empress and didn't like the rusties. The red empress seems to get too big and aggressive so they out. So I figured id go with 5 electric yellows and 5 yellow tail acei. I tried putting them with 2 n caudopunctatus but aqadvisor says Warning: Red Fin Caudopunk(n caudopunctatus?) is not recommended to be with Yellow Lab - lake Tanganyika species/mbuna species should not be mixed with other groups, to any other species i put in there, is this true and should i look for something else?

Im thinking maybe 5 Maingano Mbuna, the hydra40 should be able to hand the extra nitrates, I got a 50 on my larger planted tank and it pulled the nitrates down from the usual 40ppm to zero >_< was hoping for a reduction not total removal >_>. Also is there any plants that would work with these fish/tank? Looks a little plain/empty without any and im hopeless with decorating with rocks. 

[Buccal]

Nah, that's nicely balanced for a small tank needing swim space for Africans.

A good quality second hand external canister filter if you could afford would be nice,, as you wouldn't need all that gadgetry in there in the subjects of view ability and swim space.

 

Some black contact or cardboard stuck on the rear of the tank will better appearance.

 

Now,,,, especially for hot days,, your first piece of valuable do and don't advice,,,, make sure the water jetting out of any type of filtration is skimming at surface level for appropriate oxygen transference into water,,, this is a very common mistake along side of over-feeding....   

[Buccal]

2x male placidochromis (Phenochilus Tanzania).

6x electric yellows.

3x bristlenoses.

either 2x synodontis petricola or 3x clown loaches instead. (These will keep substrate 'sand' crevices turned over and clean)

 

Personally, that model would see me selecting these fish.

Pheno Tanzania grow relatively slow, but 3+ years you might only might have to pass them on to downsize from finished sizes.

[extreoxy]

So where should I buy the 5 electric yellows and 5 yellow tail acei and maybe 5 Maingano Mbuna from and is it actually possible to get 1M4F? An add on this forum, live fish, gumtree or is there some recommend aquariums in the Melbourne area? What should I be looking for, for good quality/looking ones?

@Buccal should I get a small wave maker like a sunsun to push the poop down one end which would allow me to use the spray to skim the surface? Id say clown loaches are way too big for this tank, had them before and ended up swapping for chain loaches which were a much better fish in the end. synodontis petricola look nice but probably too much in tank then, id leave the placidochromis until a larger tank ha.

[simy696]

for africans check out keysborough aquariums.   gumtree etc  make sure you go in knowing exactly what the fish look like down to bars colour shape etc.    google the name of the fish your after you should get an idea from multiple pics what your looking for.