garage fish room build

[cooder]

Looks great, wanna see it stocked!

[markfnq]

hi

I am having a few issues test running my system. The laguna 16000 lph Pump is pulling water out of the sump too quickly. I placed some baffles in to give the water an over under flow giving a 30mm gap as suggested. I have a 20 mm bleeder back to the sump but even that’s not enough to keep up. sump is 6x2x18 i have a 20mm tap on each tank. 40mm bulkheads dump into 90mm stormwater.

40mm pressure pipe back to tanks. it has a bit of head to push but only 9 tanks run on the sump so its not a big loop .should be very close for sump volume . i am using elbows inside the tanks before the strainers and was going to drill anti siphon holes in them it gives me some play with adjusting water levels so i am not totally controlled by the lowest point in the bulkhead as far as drainage. What options do I have ? remove a couple of baffles for more flow or raise them ? or ?. i took out the mech sponges as i thought that may be slowing down flow

Thanks Mark.

[Nigel]

It sounds like the outlet is not returning the water quick enough to the sump. I would say the out let holes are not big enough.

It would have worked better if you had two outlet holes in the tanks or a weir setup.

I suggest you try to turn down the outlet valves on the tanks close to the sump and open the ones further away. If this does not work you may need to put a valve on the pump to control pump flow.

Also until you put fish in the tanks take out the strainers.

The pump maybe just a bit to big for the outlet holes.

Let me know how it goes. If like you can PM me and I will give you may home phone number and you can call me. If thats of help to you.

Do not drill holes in the outlet elbows this will not help and just create an airlock in the outlet pipe.

[Buccal]

The way I see this, is that the volume of all your piping, (water going into tanks and water going out), is about the same volume as your sump.

Restrictions or alterations will not fix this.

What you need is a black poly pond tub connected to your sump with two 50mm fittings half way below water level to the same compartment as the pump.

This way as the sump begins to run dry filling up the piping, water will then draw from the tub and give extra time for the return water to hit the sump from the tanks.

I had the same problem, as I have a extreme size breeding set up with a small sump in proportion.

It's small because it's super efficient.

I connected a large size spa for extra draw in case power goes out and floods the room.

When a power outage, the sump fills to top, then the water pours out into spa, then gets drawn back in when power comes back on.

Lol, don't make same mistake as I did,,,,, have no second draw sump and top up sump with hose as it needs it after just being turned on for the first time.

Otherwise when you turn the power of, your sump will over flow and water will be everywhere.

All of this problem usually occurs when using larger pipe sizes to better water transfer at head heights and larger pipes to carry the water away from tanks.

On a different tangent, you may have your manual valves to each tank far to open in comparison to the ability for the exit openings to expell the water in time.

Did you try quarter opening them all ?

If this solves the problem, then you may find also you have to down grade the pump size a little.

But the pump type you have usually needs to be a bit bigger because of their relative low head height for the volume they pump,,,, hence better power efficiency.

I believe with your extra draw sump joined, your set up will be excellent.

[Ben]

Hi Mark,

Your setup is looking good mate, nice work.

When you say your pump is pulling the water out of your sump too quickly do you mean the sump is running dry before the tanks are full and returning water to the sump?

This is a common issues when running bulkheads in the back of tanks, the tanks are not full then the system is off. I did a quick calculation and I am sorry to say your sump is too small for your setup. This you can fix as suggested by Baccal.

To go into a little more detail and hopefully help you work out how much more volume you need these are the figures I came up with.

As you have 40mm bulkheads my guess is there is around 80mm from the top of the tank to the lowest point on the bulkhead. Your water level when the tanks are running might be around say 40mm of the 80mm gap. So, 122cmx61cmx4cm/1000=30lt per tank before they return all water they receive back to the sump. 9 tanks (not sure on your combo of 3 and 4 footers but you can recalculate) but that's about 250lts.

Your sump being a 6x2x18 has baffles so it is more like a 6'x2'x9" before it starts to run dry (you will have to put in the more exact figures but you can see where I am going with this). 183x61x23/1000=250lt. There be the problem.

As Buccal said you need to increase your sumps volume. By how much, well you can work that out by calculating how much water needs to be added to each tank before they return water to the sump then allow for water in the piping and evaporation.

HTH

Ben

[markfnq]

thanks for your offer of advice . i had a bit more of a play around with it this afternoon .

best i can do is barely cover the pump .in my insanity i probably shouldnt have but i took the three over partitions out

i was just getting frustrated but it did make a tiny bit of difference with the flow. i have a tap on the return to tanks line

that i turned down a whisker but then the furtherest tank barely gets water. enclosed are a few pics . k1 goes in the first chamber then over a drip tray

what are the options ? would drilling another bulkhead in the tank closest the sump help ? the whole thing is starting to get to me . sump takes all water when draining at this setting and seems to run consistantly at this level but i did not leave it on overnight

thanks

/

[Nigel]

Mark in my opinion you should put another bulk head in each tank. I know its a pain put this way you can keep the sump you have.

I have had tanks with the hole like yours and it did not matter how small the pump was I had to drill two holes.

[Ben]

How was the water level in the tanks, where they looking like they were going to overflow?

Do you have T's on the back of the tanks allowing the system to breath or is it siphoning water from the tanks at present? (the system needs to breath)

I think you already know you are going to have to rework the baffles, from the pictures it now looks like the water can flow below all the media chambers.

I have set up a few rooms/systems (mine and friends) and it takes weeks of perfecting, hang in there it will be very rewarding once you 'balance' the system.

[markfnq]

Would increasing the sump size eg. adjoining another reservoir to the sump solve my problem?

Flow rates seem ok when adjusted but when tap in 40 mm pipe is turned down slightly to raise sump level over pump, the furthest tank receives little flow. I know this isn't a good thing to restrict flow rate of the pump: making it work harder.

Yes, I have T's on the back of the 40 mm bulkheads.

Yes Ben, I know I will have to put the baffles back in. I was in a moment of insanity. They are 210 mm high. If sump was flowing ok it would give me 60 mm cover over the pump.

Any troubleshooting would be greatly appreciated.

cheers, Mark

[DFishkeeper]

Hi Mark,

40mm bulkheads into 90mm for your drains should be able to handle an awful lot of flow. Unless your tanks are almost overflowing, the drains may not be the problem. Check this first.

If the drains are not able to clear the water away quickly enough, then you may need to drill an extra drain in each tank as somebody else has suggested.

Having said this, though, if the problem is simply the pump pulling out water more quickly than it is returned, this should quite easily be fixed by installing a T fitting in your return line near the sump, and then using a tap to return some filtered water straight back to your sump where the pump is. In other words, forget about the in-line tap you have in your 40mm return, take it out and replace it with a 40mm T fitting and use a reducer to install a tap in the T running straight back to your sump where the pump is. Use this tap and the taps on the tanks to adjust the flow rate through your system.

I always try and use a sump pump bigger than I think I need and have never experienced the problem you are having by having the T fitting and tap installed in this way. I also prefer to use 15mm taps rather than 20mm, you can still get lots of water flow through a 15mm tap and they are much easier to adjust and fine tune your system flow than with 20mm taps.

This should work much better than trying to increase the flow rate through the sump. After all, contact time with the media/bacteria is how we filter efficiently.

Cheers, Doug

[Ben]

Would increasing the sump size eg. adjoining another reservoir to the sump solve my problem?

I am confident it will from the feedback you are providing to questions. It is easy to test. Fill a couple of buckets with water and have them next to the sump, power the sucker up and as the water in the sump gets low poor in a bucket, and another etc until all tanks are full and the sump is at a resolvable level and tanks balanced. DO NOT SHUT THE POWER OFF WHILE TESTING AS YOU WILL FLOOD YOUR GARAGE. But we all wash our floor every now and again when balancing systems. Let it run for an hour to be sure all air is out of the system that is likely to move, while your waiting check you're happy with flow rates in each tank. Trust me, you will be adjusting taps for a good 20min before you get it perfect. Be sure to have the tap at the pump fully open, you don't want added back pressure on the pump.

Best of luck, if I was closer I would offer to come and give you a hand.

Once you are happy with the way it is running and the tank levels then start to drain water out and just before the pump runs dry pull the plug but keep removing the same amount of water you added to avoid any spills.

The amount of water you add is the size you need to increase the amount of water the sump can hold by plus 20% for good measure.

[markfnq]

THANKS greatly for the feedback guys ! getting in behind that rack and fitting more bulkheads is not an option although it is a very good solution. it was hard enough to plumb the ones as it was let alone get behind there and do it again with everything hooked up. yes Doug i have a bleeder back into the sump open all the way. i purchased a 160 litre heavy duty tub today and thinking my best option is drill a 32mm hole low in the pump chamber and join the tub with bulkheads and hose it may not look the best but it should solve things .that way i will have the extra volume be able to open the pump up so it can service the futherest tanks and have enough drain volume . i dont need that much more volume another 70mm inthe sump would be good about 70 litres more water.

thanks mark

[Buccal]

I reckon doing what you have decided to do will put a end to your problems.

The black poly tub is best behind the sump for easier sump maintenance, but I'm sure you've already thought that.

[markfnq]

FINALLY !!!!

up and running . thanks for the tips guys the tub has certainly solved the problem have plenty of room now . heres a few pics. every thing is running smooth i will still tinker here and there but all good so far !

have plenty of bleed going back to the sump with the big pump so i am running it through the uv.

a bit of decorating

sump running great just have to add some more media from the other tanks

little contraption i made out of some spare pipe its heavily slotted keeps the k1 rolling it was damming up on just the egg crate and gutter guard.

it will take a while to settle.

will be adding fish soon . thanks again cheers mark

[Buccal]

That's great Mark, the sense of achievement, and relief knowing it works is intense in the first few hours of running.

Great seeing it all come together for you.

[Ben]

Good news.

[Ged]

Great to hear that you got it sorted.

Love the whole setup.

[damoq]

Great work!!! Looks amazing!!

[FullyYellow]

Wow real big $$$ there esp if you making big decisions to drill more holes into those tanks. I love your K1 contrapment idea. Really love your fish room. Hopefully I can get one up and running just like yours minus a couple of tanks. One day....

[nine]

Hey mate

It all looks great. Show us more pics.

Cheers

[GundamCichlid]

Look Awesome mate!

:notworthy:

[A-F-A]

Good stuff mate there are alway unseen issues when doing a big system but looks like to have a handle on it

Put a strainer on the poly tub and a piece of air tube plugged into your return pipe and it becomes a time out tank or is a fish is bashes a recovery tank bonus

[YAL05T]

Any progress pics, how has the system matured?

[Alvon]

Great setup..

[mace990]

Any progress pics, how has the system matured?

Keen to know also, a big build, great thread!