Tank Journal

[dogboy]

first chamber has scoria in it,

give this stuff a miss. It's best feature is it's price, which is not a great guide for choice. I believe scoria is false economy, first priority is surface area (in an area where space is at a premium), and scoria is WELL down the list of first choices.

cheap yes, thats why its in there, it may well be replaced in the future but its all i can afford at the moment

You've got your pump in the sump - go the extra yard and plumb it in.

already have submersable pump, would love inline pump but again $$$

You also want your heater in a chamber that can not be run dry (and burn it out). The last chamber is the last place to put it.

good point will think this one through. do you think they could go into wiers, they will stay full even in the event of a powerfailure

You want to have lids on the sump. You'll be very impressed with evaporation rates other wise, and possibly be forced to add extra water between water changes. This might mean a rethink on how the plumbing enters the sump for water entry.

it will have lids, probably a perspex one to go over the plumbing

If you are using the scoria as a bio media (as you must be), then it is in the wrong chamber. Mechanical media goes first.

the sump is mainly for bio rather than mechanical, i have a canister filter made out of 30L homebrew container with 2500L/h pump to do mechanical filtration

Suggestion;

Water enters sump with a pipe going through a drilled hole (thick perspex will do as a lid) in lid, to either a spinning arm or a diffusion plate. Put different grades of mechanical media in first chamber (coarse first). Put your heater in the next baffle (where your sponges are) as this whole first section will not be run dry. Put Pond Matrix into next chamber and coral grit into last chamber (which will probably act as a settlement area as well). Plumb pump in line and have it outside the sump.

all good points and much appreciated, will have to think it through and see what i can easily change given limited budget at the moment

[CThompson]

first chamber has scoria in it,

give this stuff a miss. It's best feature is it's price, which is not a great guide for choice. I believe scoria is false economy, first priority is surface area (in an area where space is at a premium), and scoria is WELL down the list of first choices.

cheap yes, thats why its in there, it may well be replaced in the future but its all i can afford at the moment

You've got your pump in the sump - go the extra yard and plumb it in.

already have submersable pump, would love inline pump but again $$$

You also want your heater in a chamber that can not be run dry (and burn it out). The last chamber is the last place to put it.

good point will think this one through. do you think they could go into wiers, they will stay full even in the event of a powerfailure

You want to have lids on the sump. You'll be very impressed with evaporation rates other wise, and possibly be forced to add extra water between water changes. This might mean a rethink on how the plumbing enters the sump for water entry.

it will have lids, probably a perspex one to go over the plumbing

If you are using the scoria as a bio media (as you must be), then it is in the wrong chamber. Mechanical media goes first.

the sump is mainly for bio rather than mechanical, i have a canister filter made out of 30L homebrew container with 2500L/h pump to do mechanical filtration

Suggestion;

Water enters sump with a pipe going through a drilled hole (thick perspex will do as a lid) in lid, to either a spinning arm or a diffusion plate. Put different grades of mechanical media in first chamber (coarse first). Put your heater in the next baffle (where your sponges are) as this whole first section will not be run dry. Put Pond Matrix into next chamber and coral grit into last chamber (which will probably act as a settlement area as well). Plumb pump in line and have it outside the sump.

all good points and much appreciated, will have to think it through and see what i can easily change given limited budget at the moment

Many pumps can be used in-line or submerged. Don't know what your one is like, but it will be easy for you to figure out. If plumbing can be ffittedto the inlet (it can already go on the outlet as it is plumbed) then it can be plumbed in line. Take that strainer cover off and have a look. If it can not come off then it possibly can't be used in-line.

Whether you have one filter or two, BOTH will collect mechanical debris. You might want the sump to be for the biosection (which makes the scoria even more false economy), but for a bio section to be a bio section, it MUST be first filtered so cleaned water enters it. You don't really have a choice in that, as if you don't the biomedia will become defacto mechanical media.

In addition, if this section is used for the prime bio media area for the whole tank, it is poor planing to PLAN to have to replace the biomedia (when you can afford it) - that's like planning for a heart transplant. Matrix is expensive, but if it were me, I would wait till I could afford to purchase it than the way you are planning it.

Your plumbing water entry into sump needs to be tweeked. A diffusion plate will be the cheapest, regardless of if it is used as a bio media section or a mechanical section the water is best to be spread over the whole area and not dumped into one spot.

[CThompson]

first chamber has scoria in it,

give this stuff a miss. It's best feature is it's price, which is not a great guide for choice. I believe scoria is false economy, first priority is surface area (in an area where space is at a premium), and scoria is WELL down the list of first choices.

cheap yes, thats why its in there, it may well be replaced in the future but its all i can afford at the moment

You've got your pump in the sump - go the extra yard and plumb it in.

already have submersable pump, would love inline pump but again $$$

You also want your heater in a chamber that can not be run dry (and burn it out). The last chamber is the last place to put it.

good point will think this one through. do you think they could go into wiers, they will stay full even in the event of a powerfailure

You want to have lids on the sump. You'll be very impressed with evaporation rates other wise, and possibly be forced to add extra water between water changes. This might mean a rethink on how the plumbing enters the sump for water entry.

it will have lids, probably a perspex one to go over the plumbing

If you are using the scoria as a bio media (as you must be), then it is in the wrong chamber. Mechanical media goes first.

the sump is mainly for bio rather than mechanical, i have a canister filter made out of 30L homebrew container with 2500L/h pump to do mechanical filtration

Suggestion;

Water enters sump with a pipe going through a drilled hole (thick perspex will do as a lid) in lid, to either a spinning arm or a diffusion plate. Put different grades of mechanical media in first chamber (coarse first). Put your heater in the next baffle (where your sponges are) as this whole first section will not be run dry. Put Pond Matrix into next chamber and coral grit into last chamber (which will probably act as a settlement area as well). Plumb pump in line and have it outside the sump.

all good points and much appreciated, will have to think it through and see what i can easily change given limited budget at the moment

Many pumps can be used in-line or submerged. Don't know what your one is like, but it will be easy for you to figure out. If plumbing can be fitted to the inlet (it can already go on the outlet as it is plumbed) then it can be plumbed in line. Take that strainer cover off and have a look. If it can not come off then it possibly can't be used in-line.

Whether you have one filter or two, BOTH will collect mechanical debris, if they are run indipendantly from each other. You might want the sump to be for the biosection (which makes the scoria even more false economy) only, but for a bio section to be a bio section, it needs to be first filtered so cleaned water goes over/through biomedia and not dirty water. You don't really have a choice in that, as if you don't the biomedia will become defacto mechanical media.

In addition, if this section is used for the prime bio media area for the whole tank, it is poor planing to PLAN to have to replace the biomedia (when you can afford it) - that's like planning for a heart transplant. Matrix is expensive, but if it were me, I would wait till I could afford to purchase it than the way you are planning it.

Your plumbing water entry into sump needs to be tweeked. A diffusion plate will be the cheapest, regardless of if it is used as a bio media section or a mechanical section the water is best to be spread over the whole area and not dumped into one spot.

[dogboy]

Many pumps can be used in-line or submerged. Don't know what your one is like, but it will be easy for you to figure out. If plumbing can be fitted to the inlet (it can already go on the outlet as it is plumbed) then it can be plumbed in line. Take that strainer cover off and have a look. If it can not come off then it possibly can't be used in-line.

will check this out, i can easily drill the sump and fit a bulkhead to exteriorise the pump. this would also leave room for an extra baffle to make a chamber exclusiveley for heaters

Whether you have one filter or two, BOTH will collect mechanical debris, if they are run indipendantly from each other. You might want the sump to be for the biosection (which makes the scoria even more false economy) only, but for a bio section to be a bio section, it needs to be first filtered so cleaned water goes over/through biomedia and not dirty water. You don't really have a choice in that, as if you don't the biomedia will become defacto mechanical media.

point taken will sort out some primary mechanical filtration to go under the diffusion plate

In addition, if this section is used for the prime bio media area for the whole tank, it is poor planing to PLAN to have to replace the biomedia (when you can afford it) - that's like planning for a heart transplant. Matrix is expensive, but if it were me, I would wait till I could afford to purchase it than the way you are planning it.

ok i bent the truth a little, i wasn't going to replace it anytime soon, i have never had a problem with scoria. i will however look into pond matrix as you are absolutley correct its worth doing right the frist time. what is your opinion on expanded clay that people use to grow hydroponics in? a lot of people doing aquaponics use it in growbeds and claim it has a huge surface area for bio.

Your plumbing water entry into sump needs to be tweeked. A diffusion plate will be the cheapest, regardless of if it is used as a bio media section or a mechanical section the water is best to be spread over the whole area and not dumped into one spot.

was on the list of things i was already planning

Thanks for your input, it is very much appreciated

[Batty]

Dogboy, you went for the homebrew brewbin for a canister idea in the end how did it turn out?

[dogboy]

Dogboy, you went for the homebrew brewbin for a canister idea in the end how did it turn out?

love it, massive capacity and cheaper than a shop bought one, if the pump fails can always get a new one.

took a bit of messing arround with fittings and the design, would do it slightly different next time. had been running non stop over 2 years and no complaints ( other than its heavy and a pain to get out from under tanks to clean it)

[CThompson]

. what is your opinion on expanded clay that people use to grow hydroponics in?

a lot of people doing aquaponics use it in growbeds and claim it has a huge

surface area for bio.

Sorry not used it or read anything about them that I have retained. My only input would be; you have a fish tank not a hydroponic set up. I understand and appreciate your desire to source a cheaper bio media, but I have always felt that this is an area where it is can be so important to get the gear that has been designed to do the job. And not a cheaper alternative. In essence, a bio media is ONLY a surface area, so it's not a complicated thing to understand. But when seeking a cheaper alternative, make sure you are comparing apples with apples, and if an alternative from outside the aquarium industry (and I'm all for that) has say half the surface area and half the cost - what are you saving? Of course scoria is cheep as chips, especially when compared to Pond Matrix, but are you getting value for money when comparing $ to $ and area to area?

[dogboy]

guess what i spent the weekend doing......

im glad i only have to do it once.

[CThompson]

what sort of rock is that? It does not look like limestone, and not quite like sandstone...but it is whiteish for a Tang tank, so I sway back to limestone..

How much was it.

Bloody nice looking lawn - I mean WOW! My dog has killed what I called a lawn but it never looked like this. How can you put a pallet full of rocks on it - you will put a dent in it.

[dogboy]

its a limestone from near where i live,

it was free from the side of a dirt road, not too near crops or anywhere they might be spraying chemicals.

and the lawn, well this is the best patch, the rest doesnt look as good, amazing the difference being near the septic tank makes but we have had good rainfall this winter, it pretty well dies off over summer.

its pretty tough stuff, it will bounce back from the rocks.

[Noddy65]

. what is your opinion on expanded clay that people use to grow hydroponics in?

a lot of people doing aquaponics use it in growbeds and claim it has a huge

surface area for bio.

Sorry not used it or read anything about them that I have retained. My only input would be; you have a fish tank not a hydroponic set up. I understand and appreciate your desire to source a cheaper bio media, but I have always felt that this is an area where it is can be so important to get the gear that has been designed to do the job. And not a cheaper alternative. In essence, a bio media is ONLY a surface area, so it's not a complicated thing to understand. But when seeking a cheaper alternative, make sure you are comparing apples with apples, and if an alternative from outside the aquarium industry (and I'm all for that) has say half the surface area and half the cost - what are you saving? Of course scoria is cheep as chips, especially when compared to Pond Matrix, but are you getting value for money when comparing $ to $ and area to area?

Ive used it in all my sumps in my fishroom...seems to work well...its cheap and light and seems effective. I just couldnt afford the price of matrix when I could get 50 litres of the kiln fired clay for $30. Its done five sumps with some to spare.

It is very light and will float so you will need to put it in bags or hold it down with soemthing (Ive cut strips of jap matting to hold it underwater in my sumps)

Mike

[Noddy65]

its a limestone from near where i live,

it was free from the side of a dirt road, not too near crops or anywhere they might be spraying chemicals.

and the lawn, well this is the best patch, the rest doesnt look as good, amazing the difference being near the septic tank makes but we have had good rainfall this winter, it pretty well dies off over summer.

its pretty tough stuff, it will bounce back from the rocks.

The joys of living west of the east...in Perth Id pick up nice rocks with lots of holes from the side of the road (cosntruction sites were my fav place to explore)...silly me thought I could do the same thing here so left most of my nice limestone rocks in Perth...

Mike

[dogboy]

. what is your opinion on expanded clay that people use to grow hydroponics in?

a lot of people doing aquaponics use it in growbeds and claim it has a huge

surface area for bio.

Sorry not used it or read anything about them that I have retained. My only input would be; you have a fish tank not a hydroponic set up. I understand and appreciate your desire to source a cheaper bio media, but I have always felt that this is an area where it is can be so important to get the gear that has been designed to do the job. And not a cheaper alternative. In essence, a bio media is ONLY a surface area, so it's not a complicated thing to understand. But when seeking a cheaper alternative, make sure you are comparing apples with apples, and if an alternative from outside the aquarium industry (and I'm all for that) has say half the surface area and half the cost - what are you saving? Of course scoria is cheep as chips, especially when compared to Pond Matrix, but are you getting value for money when comparing $ to $ and area to area?

Ive used it in all my sumps in my fishroom...seems to work well...its cheap and light and seems effective. I just couldnt afford the price of matrix when I could get 50 litres of the kiln fired clay for $30. Its done five sumps with some to spare.

It is very light and will float so you will need to put it in bags or hold it down with soemthing (Ive cut strips of jap matting to hold it underwater in my sumps)

Mike

Cheers Mike,

i think this product looks the same as the stuff used in hydroponics

http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalog...261&catID=9

I have 25L of matrix on order now at a LFS, swapping for fry, but interesting to hear someone is using it.

sorry to hear about your limestone deficiency, you should get some airfreighted over to you

[Noddy65]

. what is your opinion on expanded clay that people use to grow hydroponics in?

a lot of people doing aquaponics use it in growbeds and claim it has a huge

surface area for bio.

Sorry not used it or read anything about them that I have retained. My only input would be; you have a fish tank not a hydroponic set up. I understand and appreciate your desire to source a cheaper bio media, but I have always felt that this is an area where it is can be so important to get the gear that has been designed to do the job. And not a cheaper alternative. In essence, a bio media is ONLY a surface area, so it's not a complicated thing to understand. But when seeking a cheaper alternative, make sure you are comparing apples with apples, and if an alternative from outside the aquarium industry (and I'm all for that) has say half the surface area and half the cost - what are you saving? Of course scoria is cheep as chips, especially when compared to Pond Matrix, but are you getting value for money when comparing $ to $ and area to area?

Ive used it in all my sumps in my fishroom...seems to work well...its cheap and light and seems effective. I just couldnt afford the price of matrix when I could get 50 litres of the kiln fired clay for $30. Its done five sumps with some to spare.

It is very light and will float so you will need to put it in bags or hold it down with soemthing (Ive cut strips of jap matting to hold it underwater in my sumps)

Mike

Cheers Mike,

i think this product looks the same as the stuff used in hydroponics

http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalog...261&catID=9

I have 25L of matrix on order now at a LFS, swapping for fry, but interesting to hear someone is using it.

sorry to hear about your limestone deficiency, you should get some airfreighted over to you

The stuff I use is called Hydroton , the clay balls are around the size of a marble.

I also miss the sunshine...Ive never been so damp since moving here (and Im from Melbourne originally)

Mike

[dogboy]

yeah you have to love Perth weather, I went to uni in Perth and loved it.

I now live in the Adelaide hills and rely on rainwater for everything so have learned to love the rain.

I have heard of hydroton, thats the stuff i was thinking of just couldnt remember the name

[dogboy]

well i have started aquascaping. having a tank of this size presents new challenges, like how the hell do you get rocks in there? and new experiences such as having to climb a ladder to get into the tank to place the rocks.

anyway what do you guys think???? do you think Tropheus and rockdwelling tangs will be happy in there? i certainly wont be stripping down the tank to catch out fry.

i have also put a cement render on the intake and outlet pipes for the sump pump and canister to try to blend them in a little

[mattrox]

That looks great! Pipes look good too, great idea!

[ToobadyanOOb]

Subscribed to this thread, thanks for the update good idea on camouflaging the pipes too

[dogboy]

Subscribed to this thread,

wow , can you do that?? im honoured

thanks guys. yeah i didnt want to have the pipes really obvious big white pvc things, i have done pipes with silicone and sand before and it flaked off after a year or so. i figured cement was a bit more permanant so i roughed up the pvc with a wire brush attatchment on an angle grinder then applied the cement, i wish i had done it at the same time i did the render, i have to wait fot it to cure and then use pond sealer on it.... damn another 2 weeks.

[CThompson]

If these pipes look as big as they actually are, and are left without a strainer, if you put petricola in your tank, they'll be up the pipes like a rat up a drain pipe. I had to put a strainer on my big tank’s return pipe – water going 10,500 lph and these guys used to get stuck inside and bones would fall out when pump was turned off for maintenance. They’d get jammed with their pectoral fins, and the current would hold them in place till it was removed. Once turned off, they’d collapse then be shot out the end when the pump was turned back on again. I got some gutter guard and attached it to the inside of the return pipe and that stopped them going up without affecting the flow to any degree.

I've forgotten where they are meant to be fitted. If you've gone to the effort to cover them, then I assume they go in the tank side of the background. I assume it is to do with the "no drilling" of tank.

I like the placement of your rocks, but one critique is that the two piles are too regular. That is, they are the same height. To my eye, I would like to see one stack go higher and near the top of the tank.

[dogboy]

cheers Craig,

the pipes are 20 mm and 25mm, the two you can see all of are return pipes from the pumps, i will investigate the gutter guard. how did you attatch it? , the long one that you cant see all of is the inlet for the canister. it will have some mesh screen attatched over the inlets.

their are 2 overflows/wiers which have the pipework for the no holes overflow in them. i was thinking of putting the inlet for the canister in one of them but then thought i would prefer is it took water from nearer the bottom of the tank to create more current.

i totally agree with the rock piles being too symetrical, and so did my other 1/2, so things have changed since i posted this... but not too much. although i made it lower not higher, they would start to get narrow and unstable if i went to much higher. im thinking of trying some broad leaf vallis to get some height in the tank.

[CThompson]

I cut a circle out of gutter guard to match the OD of the PVC, with the outer edge made up of...raw ends. Put this up against the PVC then marked where these raw ends would penetrate the PVC with a marker. I then drilled out with holes large enough for the raw ends and glued the gutter guard in with a heat glue gun from the outside. I made this up as I went along but it's held in place for several years and no more bones have come tumbling out.

Regarding the height of the rock piles. Yes you do have to be careful, but with the non-fluvial nature of the rocks you are using, just make sure they are weighted to tilt backwards and locked in with the rock edges. My stack is a meter or so high with not a millimetre of movement.

Val can look good and grow well I've seen in other African tanks on the net.

[dogboy]

I am refilling the beast tonight with buffered water and going to start cycling with some old seeded internal filters.

the pump outlets have had egg crate grills atatched so should stop any flow-defying fish form going up them

some nice creamic media in the sump now

vallis has been rejected by she that must be obeyed. ok by me because now i can look at LED lighting to keep running costs down.

not long now before fish

[dogboy]

well its now all up and running, the homebrew canister off my 7 foot been on there a week as well as come internal filters. thrown some fish food in there for the bacteria to live off.

flicked the switch for the sump today, the 40mm no holes overflows in the wiers are easily keeping up with a 10,000 LPH pump. blooming noisy though, i nearly pulled the sump apart and was going to put another chamber in for the water to enter before it goes into bio area....might have to rebuild it yet, the mrs doesnt like the noise and doesnt believe that she wont notice it after a while.

photos are just with a single 4 foor flouro, will eventually build a hood and use LED's. and enclose the sump/canister with something that looks a little nicer.

will be swapping water between this tank and the 7 foot tropheus tank to aclimatise them, they should be in by christmas.... present to myself

[Chilli Powder]

Looks great mate. Personally, I would replace some of the rocks on the bottom/back with some 50-100mm pvc pipes (use elbows and T-shape) so that there are some paths the fish can swim through. You can easily hide them by putting rocks around them. Also don't forget that when you had those massive rocks, they displace the water in your tank. I know it may seem irrelevant but every bit of water counts for your fish