bactiria in a tablet ?

[Foti]

tetra make a tablet the you put in your filter starts the bio organism

just read about it has anyone used it or any other brand that makes something like it ?

[pseudotrop]

tetra make a tablet the you put in your filter starts the bio organism

just read about it has anyone used it or any other brand that makes something like it ?

Haven't used tablets but I have used a liquid that stated it did the same thing.

Not sure if it made any difference as I've only had one tank (so far), and before I put my cichlids in it, it had some glass catfish in there for ~2 months.

[CThompson]

Aquasonic (wholesaler) sell a product called “Bio-Culture Standard”. This is a fairly long lasting (shelf life) product that can be used for salt or fresh water tanks. I understand that it is replacing a two part fresh water “bacteria in a bottle” product/s that Aquasonic has sold for years called “Nitrosomona” & “Nitrobacter”. I have used the latter a number of times (one tank was Tropheus), and provided the tank is temp and chemically stable, you can put the fish into the tank the same time as the bacteria – with never an ammonia or nitrite spike to peak. I have not used Bio-Culture but am told by Aquasonic that it is better than Nitrosomona and Nitrobacter.

I found with a tank that has started cycling, the whole process of which can take 4-6 weeks, that Nitrosomona and Nitrobacter knocked it back to a full cycle in 3-4 days.

Ask any LFS who deals with Aquasonic and they can get it.

[malrift]

Imo do it the traditional way short cuts usually turn out to be more problems. Allow the tank 4-6weeks cycling adding just a few fish at a time. In the case of malawi's when addig new fish just adjust your rockwork when new fish added.

[CThompson]

I have used bacterial starters a number of times with complete and absolute sucess. The biggest downside is that it will cost and the biggest thing to be concerened about is if the product is still active.

There are products on the market such as Cycle that are not the same as the product/s I am talking about.

The products I have used are "bacteria in a bottle".

Once upon a time the old method of spending 6-8 weeks cycling a tank was the only option an aquatist had. A cheaper way and much faster is to use an established filter with plenty of biomedia from a well stocked tank. There is absolutly nothing wrong with spending two months cycling a tank if that is your preference.

But be aware there are ways now that are just as effective if not more so than spending weeks waiting.

[malrift]

even using established filters takes time to build in the new tank.

What people seem to forget is the whole aquarium contains the bacteria including all decorations and even the glass walls of the tank. It is only when all these things are covered with bacteria that true cycling is complete.

I will also add that each to their own I just dont looking to a bottle to replace what nature intended.

[fordfish]

even using established filters takes time to build in the new tank.

What people seem to forget is the whole aquarium contains the bacteria including all decorations and even the glass walls of the tank. It is only when all these things are covered with bacteria that true cycling is complete.

I will also add that each to their own I just dont looking to a bottle to replace what nature intended.

But nature didn't intend fish to live in tanks either

In my experience recently after getting impatient and deciding i just wanted to get back into it the bottled stuff worked brilliantly.

[malrift]

In my experience recently after getting impatient and deciding i just wanted to get back into it the bottled stuff worked brilliantly.

that is why they made this stuff for people who want to short cut and not allow things to happen the way they should. Patients is a virtue.

[CThompson]

As already said by fordfish, fish are not meant to live in tanks , so “as nature intended” is really not applicable.

In addition, nature did not intend the bacteria that are utilised in our tanks to remove/reduce toxic levels of ammonia and nitrite. In nature, with the planet's waters being so unimaginably vast, this same bacteria barely manage to eek out an existence. It is only in our fish tanks that they have such a plentiful supply of “food” that they can exist in such concentrated numbers. And indeed their very existence means the life and death to all the tank’s inhabitants.

The bacteria that feed on ammonia and nitrate do indeed take up all surface areas (that have access to oxygen) in our tanks. That is, any surface with access to oxygen will be able to support a colony of these bacteria. The amount that is needed is what will equal (be able to consume) the amount of waste produced by the fish. The more fish the more bacteria required. That means, provided the tank is temperature and water is chemically stable, AND the filter with SUFFICIENT quantities of bacteria can support the bioload in the new tank, there will be no need for any bacteria on any surface within the tank itself. Of course as time goes by these surfaces will also be colonised. But provided the biomedia has enough bacteria, no further bacteria will be required to prevent ammonia and nitrite spikes.

To have sufficient quantities of bacteria there needs to be firstly enough surface area (= enough biological media) and it needs to have been seeded/established on an existing tank with sufficient bioload to create a bacteria population sufficiently large enough once moved to the new tank to equal the ammonia/nitrite in the new tank.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting a tank up from scratch and spending 5-6 weeks or longer going through the full cycling process as our fathers and grandfathers (and I) did. But this is no reason to stick with this method when other better… or should I say “faster”, ways have been discovered/developed/are possible. Or when newer and even faster ways are developed such as these bacteria in a bottle products come on to the market.

Fish are not meant to live in a fish tank, so it is not wrong by starting a tank or should I say completing a tank’s cycling by pouring in a bottle. Nor is it “not allowing things to happen they way they should”, if this was the case why don’t we let things happen as they should and stop feeding the fish? We feed the fish as they can’t support themselves with out our intervention – and indeed if it wasn’t for us there would be no fish tank/s.

Patients is absolutely a virtue, and it is one of the keys to successful fish keeping. But by not keeping up with progress you are not being virtuous. Using a bacteria starter from a bottle is also not a “short cut” if by saying this it is meant in a negative way. It is merely a more modern alternative to the same goal. Happy healthy fish .

[GundamCichlid]

I use a liquid product called Cycle.

In extreme situation that I had when I was moving house.

I put the recommened dosage daily in conjunction with the volume of water in the tank for 7 days.

I feed the fish every 2 days with half portion that I normally feed.

It works!

All the fish is still alive and settling down well in their new home

[malrift]

But by not keeping up with progress you are not being virtuous. Using a bacteria starter from a bottle is also not a “short cut” if by saying this it is meant in a negative way.

Anything used to speed up a process is a shortcut. Progress is only as good as the person using it. Because I have a different opinion on this I am wrong as with anything you say CT.

By saying as nature intended it is an old saying which has been used to described certain methods, or old ways that originally were used. Nature in this saying doesnt mean nature as in the natural world but nature as in good old fashioned tried and true methods.

And I have never said dont use the bottled method I just prefer the staging method as used by the true old fashioned aquarist and not the new lets do everything fast because waiting is not done aquarists. The fish are under massive amounts of stress as it is and it is my preference to allow things to stage in and not try and jump the gun on it. I have found that by loading the tanks with bottled bacteria then fish as many people do using these products disease is quite often not too far behind. Then it becomes a major problem. When cycling slowly you only have to watch a couple of fish giving you the aquarist an easier time in watching what happens due to the lesser number of fish.

I know aquarists that never used filters in their tanks but instead heavily planted with slight water movement and have bred species that many new systems and designs have not yet bred. Using the old fashioned stage cycling methods.

But like I said earlier each to their own no need to deliberately target someone because they have an opinion on another well proven way of doing things is their.

I dont make statements because I dont know, I make statements on proven things unlike you CT. Or recite information from someone I am trying to prove something to.

[Foti]

so there is something out there and meny different types

my next question was going to be what do you all think about using a faster method

but i dont think i will

all my post keep getting deleted

[malrift]

In addition, nature did not intend the bacteria that are utilised in our tanks to remove/reduce toxic levels of ammonia and nitrite. In nature, with the planet's waters being so unimaginably vast, this same bacteria barely manage to eek out an existence

So when a naturally formed pond with fish in it, becomes seperated from flowing water by a dry spell you are saying these bacteria are not there to help with the waste?

"my next question was going to be what do you all think about using a faster method

but i dont think i will "

Mate to be honest if you want to use them go for it. All I have been trying to say is in my opinion the old way is still the best way.

I ran an aquarium maintenance business for several years and many of the issues I was called out to, invoved "some"(not all) of these bacteria additives, people just expected to load the tank and leave it. When you explained the cycling system and they restarted using the older ways they had a better understanding of the entire thing.

What I think is forgotten that the bacteria themselves need time to adjust to the tank as well, after all they too are a living organism and not every condition will suit.

[malrift]

If I was to use or recomend one I have heard excellent feedback about the aqua pics bacter boost.

[Foti]

If I was to use or recomend one I have heard excellent feedback about the aqua pics bacter boost.

hey

im cycling a tank now its filling up as i type but no substrate does it count ?

if not can you help me i want to know sand or crushed coral for tangs hopefully shelles

i already have crushed coral!

canister filter atached to a sponge,

want is beter ? for the fish ?

well i dont have the spone yet but seen on ebay something more for the fact of people saying that sand gets sucked into the impeller?

thank you ..

[malrift]

I really like sand in tanks especially shellie tanks. 2 reasons its natural looking and fish will use sand to pass through there gills to clean them. I use the pool filter sand just make sure you give it a thorough wash.

As long as the filter is in place and running cycling will start. Either way if you already have a canister filter by all means use it I would place the crushed coral in there to help buffer the water and create extra surface area for the bacteria.

A sponge on the intake of the filter will help stop the fine particles of sand being drawn up into the filter. Or you can have the intake siting a couple of inches above the sand.

If you are after a buffer as well definately use the aqua pics african kh I have been using these for a couple of months now and have found to have excellent results especially in breeding. It is also suggested for tangs to use the aqua pics african crystals in combination with the kh but I havent but once again your choice.

And before anyone asks no I do ot have the distributorship for aqua pics in Qld.(lol) But I have used a lot of the different brands and have found these equivilant to seachem and in some cases I am getting more fry, than when using seachem just what I have found. Hope this helps.

[debgrafish]

I have to agree with the above, I use the aqua pics african gh and aqua pics tanganyikan kh, my fish are breeding like rabbits. Keeps Ph high and stable aswell.

[CThompson]

Progress is only as good as the person using it.

True – and so is "the old fashioned way".

By saying as nature intended it is an old saying which has been used to described certain methods, or old ways that originally were used. Nature in this saying doesnt mean nature as in the natural world but nature as in good old fashioned tried and true methods.

So what you're saying is that when you repeat a cliché; "as nature intended", I'm supposed to read and understand not "as nature intended; "but good old fashioned tried and true methods" another cliché altogether. Please excuse if I don't understand what you have meant to say, and actually understand what you have written.

The fish are under massive amounts of stress as it is and it is my preference to allow things to stage in and not try and jump the gun on it

So what you do is put a "tough" species in that won't be killed by firstly the ammonia spike then the spike in nitrite levels. So it's okay to put this fish through "massive amounts of stress" and "not try and jump the gun" - another cliché that implies something is wrong by using a bottle.

You said;

And I have never said dont use the bottled method

But your use of the emotive and negative language implies that you don't approve.

For example:

I have found that by loading the tanks with bottled bacteria then fish as many people do using these products disease is quite often not too far behind.

That is possible in ANY new tank, regardless of how it is seeded. I have used the bottled bacteria a number of times without issue and without disease.

This is not a "proven" thing?

I know aquarists that never used filters in their tanks but instead heavily planted with slight water movement and have bred species that many new systems and designs have not yet bred. Using the old fashioned stage cycling methods

And what has that got to do with the discussion? Are you saying we should not use filters?

I too have had a planted tank - do you understand why the aquarist you mentioned didn't need filters?

But like I said earlier each to their own no need to deliberately target someone because they have an opinion on another well proven way of doing things is their.

I am not "targeting" you, just incorrect information and misunderstandings that you write.

I dont make statements because I don't know,

That's the crux of the matter Malrift. You do. You just don't know it. You are not able to take on new information because you think you already know the answer and the "old fashioned way" is the best. The old ways and the new ways have their pros and cons each. But to discount a new way because it is "faster" or requires "less patients" is not a progressive mindset.

I make statements on proven things unlike you CT

Things I say haven't been proven? Name it. Name anything I have written about that can't be proven!

Or recite information from someone I am trying to prove something to.

I don't understand this. Who am I trying to prove something to? What am I trying to prove?

So when a naturally formed pond with fish in it, becomes seperated from flowing water by a dry spell you are saying these bacteria are not there to help with the waste?

Last I looked the ocean has not dried up and the rift lakes have been pretty stable for a few million years so. Though both Victoria and Malawi have dried up a few times, and guess what? All the fish died.

Of course a billabong once small enough with enough bioload will eventually allow a feast for the bacteria. But guess what? The billabong would then continue dry up completely and everything, fish and bacteria will die. It is not a situation that nature will support. Or do I need to "prove" that?

Any permanent body of water will NOT be capable of supporting a bio load that will be so large that the bacteria are required to maintain cycling as we know it in our enclosed bodies of water otherwise called fish tanks. Do I need to "prove" that too?

All I have been trying to say is in my opinion the old way is still the best way.

Yes it is the OLD way, but no it is NOT the best way. It is an alternative way.

When you explained the cycling system and they restarted using the older ways they had a better understanding of the entire thing.

I would have no doubt this is true and would debate in favour that this was so. But that is not the same discussion and not a supportive argument to NOT using a bottle method. Both the OLD way and the bottle way need explanation and understanding.

What I think is forgotten that the bacteria themselves need time to adjust to the tank as well, after all they too are a living organism and not every condition will suit.

As I have said, the tank needs to be temperature and chemically stable BEFORE any bottled bacteria is put in. If it is and it is suitable to sustain fish life, the bacteria will be fine. You say you ran a fish maintenance business, you should understand this without having to state the above quoted comment, which if anything is just an attempt to mislead and imply there is an issue when there is not. OF course the tank conditions have to suit – otherwise you won't be putting the fish in.

To quote another cliché "the mind is a parachute – it works best when open".

Foti

my next question was going to be what do you all think about using a faster method

That gave me a laugh.

[malrift]

Things I say haven't been proven? Name it. Name anything I have written about that can't be proven!

how about this one

"Food like Sera Flora colour their food green, for our benefit, and if anything they are being misleading in their production in that they perpetuate the false dietary beliefs of a “vegetarian” fish and a fish that is a “carnivore”. Carnivores get their required vegetable matter from “vegetarian” fish gut loaded with vegetable matter.

"

bagging an excellent international product on open forums. To me anyone who makes this statement is trying to kiss someones behind maybe another well known company. I think this just proves what you really don't know! LOl this really makes me laugh.

One of the many problems today is people want to walk before they crawl and it doesnt hurt to go back to basics of fishkeeping before trying the new faster methods. Learn pratical methods before you learn quick methods.

And heres one back at you

"That's the crux of the matter Malrift. You do. You just don't know it."

Show me.

Yes the mind is a parachute but only opens when packed properly first!

[malrift]

Look at the ingredients listed on any container of fish food. Look particularly for food that has not got grain as 1st, 2nd or 3rd place in their listing, and try and work out what is the source of protein used.

Almost forgot this one its a classic read the 3rd ingredient on the food you try and push is it not Wheat Flour. Last I read wheat is grain product.

[malrift]

In addition, nature did not intend the bacteria that are utilised in our tanks to remove/reduce toxic levels of ammonia and nitrite. In nature, with the planet's waters being so unimaginably vast, this same bacteria barely manage to eek out an existence.

I cant believe I missed this not only are these bacteria in the lakes they are in our oceans. They are on every grain of sand/mud, every stem of seaweed/aquatic plant, every piece of coral, every rock and in the water column.

Not only are they there they do exactly the same job what you have seemed to forget is the entire worlds water is recycled via rain. If they werent there these waste products would build up and kill every life form in the ocean.

So what you do is put a "tough" species in that won't be killed by firstly the ammonia spike then the spike in nitrite levels. So it's okay to put this fish through "massive amounts of stress" and "not try and jump the gun" - another cliché that implies something is wrong by using a bottle.

By adding as couple of fish every 2 weeks the amonia spike is no where near the levels required to damage the fish this also allows the ammonia levels to gradually come up and bacteria to form on a gradual level.

Unlike the spike you will get by adding a bottle of bacteria than dumping in the full tank of fish. I dont deny the bottle will give it a boost but the amount of ammonia in the first 24hrs the fish will be hit with is massive. COmpared to the old method.

And what has that got to do with the discussion? Are you saying we should not use filters?

I too have had a planted tank - do you understand why the aquarist you mentioned didn't need filters?

Not even worth a come back

Last I looked the ocean has not dried up and the rift lakes have been pretty stable for a few million years so.

so doesnt this contradict this

Though both Victoria and Malawi have dried up a few times, and guess what? All the fish died.

[E4G13M4N]

I have used Aquasonic bio starters, sera, stresszyme all with success but can be costly doing it that way.

With absolutely no adverse affect to the fish what so ever how ever i havnt used the tablet way as yet so cant comment on them.

You have 4 choices these days on how to cycle all affective and all do the job and if done properly will not harm the fish etc

Once again please keep to the topic on hand and keep the other stuff to the appropriate threads, you dont win brownie points for changing the subject