mitch9 Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Hey guys, I've recently had 3 paracyprichromis nigripinnis die on me in the last 2 and a half weeks and am starting to wonder whats going on. Each time there has been no visible physical damage to the fish. I've checked the water (again) and everything is fine, i do weekly 15% water changes, and there is no obvious aggression from the other fish to the p.nigs. Does anyone have any ideas what might be the problem? Tank is 250lt with fluval 305, homemade trickle filter and internal filter, tank has calvus, comps, pleuro's, meleagris, juvie Ophthalmotilapia ventralis, bn and paracyprichromis nigripinnis Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated Cheers Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Nobody is replying Mitch I imagine because you are not providing enough details and/or details that are most pertinent. It is not good enough to say you tested the water and it's okay. You need to put down what you tested and what were the results for example -pH, KH, ammonia-nitrate, phosphates....etc. Tank size (dimensions), do you use salts, what do you feed???... Ignoring all the details you have written (because they don't really help), the title "mystery deaths and Nigs" for me indicates wasting. If you said Cyprichromis instead of nigripinnis I would also think wasting also. Do a search on ace for wasting and see if any of the details fits with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesg Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Hi Mitch, What are the sizes of the nigs, and other fish in with them. Do they appear to be eating along with other inhabitants. How is the tanks setup? Do the nigs have holes/caves? Seems like a small tank for all those fish, nigs are a little delicate compared to the mix of tank mates.. more info would be great. cheers Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch9 Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 Sorry guys, here's some more info on the tank. Its 4x18x18. Ph is around 8.8, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia are all zero and hardness is around 320ppm which is around 17.92 german dh? (if I'm honest I'm not 100% on what the difference is with dh, kh etc is, so I just go off my kit that says anywhere between 300-500ppm is fine). Temperature stays at a constant 27 degrees and not sure about phosphates? Fish are fed on NLS cichlid formula, thera-a, homemade fish food (raw prawns, mussels blended with spirulina powder), and occasionally brine shrimp and very occasionally beef heart. I have coral rubble in both filters to buffer the water. I add a teaspoon each of bi-carb and epsom salts to about 20-25lt of water when I change it. There are 6 nigs left and they range from 5-10cm. The three that have died have all been at the bigger end of the scale, maybe 7-10cm. All the rest of the fish are juvies i'm growing up in order to get some good looking pairs/trios. 2 of the calvus and the male pleuro are the next biggest fish at around 6-7cm, the rest are smaller. All fish eat well incuding the nigs (except for the smallest comp and nig who have to battle a bit). The three that died all looked healthy until they died. The tank has 2 rockpiles at either end, one big one small, but the nigs only occasionally duck into the rocks for a look. The big rockpile is guarded by one of the calvus so thats why they probably steer clear. They do hover vertically at the back of the tank near the heater sometimes though, is it possible they can get burnt by the heater (stupid question i'm guessing?). The nigs are the only fish that dont really get hassled by my other fish? Craig is wasting basically the fish not eating because it has parasites/worms? My nigs all eat but can they still have worms if they eat? I've done some reading and if I need to quarantine fish, how do I know they are sick/have parasites if mine all look and act normal? Thanks heaps guys Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gombe Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 How are your nitrates 0? Are you using test strips or liquid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch9 Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 Nitrates are 0, thats using a freshwater master test kit by Aquarium Pharm Inc. Not sure how spot on these test kits are though? Its a liquid one where you add drops and match it to a colour chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gombe Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 That test kit should be spot on. I envy you. I have nitrates in my tap water so I was wondering why you had a zero count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Much better information Mitch . Fish with wasting will take food into their mouths only to spit it out. It can be easy to miss, so take note over a five minute period. I’d question you having zero nitrate as you are taking out little water when water changing only 15%. Take some water to a shop to compare with their result. I expect you will have nitrate in the order of 5ppm>, but I assume not to any degree that will account for the deaths. Nitrate is the end result of a tanks cycling, "food - fish - ammonia – nitrite = nitrate". So unless you have some sort of denitrate filter there, you could/should expect some level of nitrate with only taking out 15% each week. I’d increase water changes to 1/3. I wouldn’t feed beef heart at any amounts to Africans. Though they will not be getting burnt from your heater, I would also say 27 degrees is higher than needed, drop it as low as 22-24 (I aim for 22 with my tanks). I would also use KH generator (Aquasonic or Seachem’s) as it is better than bi-carb. You might want to consider using Seachem’ Cichlid Salts instead of Epsom salts. Grant has bred nigripinnis for many years – listen to his response should he include one. Sorry I can't be more specific with an answer. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akroyd Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 If nitrate really is 0ppm, there must be anaerobic bacteria in the tank or filter. These bacteria excrete H2S, which is toxic. You would expect anaerobes in; a deep substrate, a filter with very slow flow, a compacted sand substrate or an inappropriate filter media. It could also be parasites, but I think you'd see symptoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesg Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Hi, I agree with what Craig said, especially temperature, this is too high for Tangs. I aim to keep at 24.5-25.5, 27 is pushing it. I cannot comment on beef heart as I have never used it, but is seems un-nesseacry given the other foods you are feeding, which are ideal. Only thing I can really think of is age of fish, you seem to be doing things right, I personally would not keep that combination of fish, but as you say there is no obvoius aggression. Do you know how old the nigs where?, this is the only reason I have lost my nigs, fish I have had for several years just die off, however you can see from their appearance they begin to look a bit shabby, the body loses visable condition, espeically around the scales. You said yours looked fine. Have the deaths stopped? Sorry I couldn't help more... Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch9 Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 I’d increase water changes to 1/3. I wouldn’t feed beef heart at any amounts to Africans. I would also say 27 degrees is higher than needed, drop it as low as 22-24 (I aim for 22 with my tanks). I've heeded your advice Craig and did about a 30% water change today and dropped the temperature to about 24-25 degrees. Funny enough the bigger water change and/or the drop in temperature seemed to liven the fish up quite a bit more than my usual water changes. Seemed to get the calvus nice and angry at each other I've heard about beef heart not being good for africans but when I went to my lfs for some variety in fish foods the guy said beef heart was good and said he fed it to all his fish with out problems? Has anyone had problems with feeding this to their tangs? If nitrate really is 0ppm, there must be anaerobic bacteria in the tank or filter. These bacteria excrete H2S, which is toxic. You would expect anaerobes in; a deep substrate, a filter with very slow flow, a compacted sand substrate or an inappropriate filter media. Not sure if the nitrate is really 0ppm but there isn't enough to register on the card they give you. When I do water changes I deliberately stir up the sand to loosen any dead spots but the sand is only 10-15mm deep so I'm confident this isn't the problem. Only thing I can really think of is age of fish, you seem to be doing things right, I personally would not keep that combination of fish, but as you say there is no obvoius aggression. Do you know how old the nigs where?, this is the only reason I have lost my nigs, fish I have had for several years just die off, however you can see from their appearance they begin to look a bit shabby, the body loses visable condition, espeically around the scales. You said yours looked fine. Have the deaths stopped? Sorry I couldn't help more... Grant I dont think age is the problem, I bought the nigs from the auctions about 7 months ago so I spose they are around a year old maybe if that? The deaths have stopped since I started this thread so hopefully it was just bad luck or me missing something obvious? Thanks for all your help guys. One quick question, is the hardness in my tank ok? I'm not 100% on what level it should be at for tangs? Cheers Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfishfan Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 don't use beef heart , iv'e talked to a lot of people and nobody uses it for tangs never , they can't digest it , or break it down in their system . only feed that to diskus . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin4 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Take advice given & yes never beef heart for nigs, sure death. I recon your ph is a bit high as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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