midnightexpress Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I went to a aquarium at canly vale,I was horrifed when I saw the 7 bar fronties.the stripes were so bad.the bars were broken and the stripes bowed in all directions.If anyone saw these fish can they tell me why are they like that. is it because they were bread with a 6 bar?adnan :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Adan,I have seen these fish also and yes they are very very bad 7bars.I think their breeder would be breeding 7bar to 7bar but they are just probably bad strians, i dont know how they sell it sicne the price is also rediculous.also PM me if you still want them vinegar eels..im free all weekendcheersRichard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I think the problem is that most people breed them in the wrong conditions and feed them the wrong food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightexpress Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 RichardI don't think they should sell them, they are one bad looking fish.I think they should just kill them all.what ppl do for money.adnanRichard I'll phone you on the weekend because I don't know what I'm doing yet.adnan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightexpress Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 Nigelcan u give more info on that.adnan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serial-Cichlid Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I've seen which ones you're talking about. Without naming any names I personally think its a crime to sell deformed fish especially aquariums as they would (and should) have knowledge of the fish they sell to their customers. It's like they have no ethics and are knowingly ripping off their unsuspecting customers.Shame, shame, shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Hi Adnan thay need to be in the right water conditions that is kh of about 140-160ppm and gh of about 100ppm and high protein food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita_ozfish Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I'd have to totally disagree with you Nigel on that one I believe the problem is genetic and have seen the results on some of my own fry. A reject can be picked at a few days old and you can see the barring already (either good or bad) so I think food and water has little influence except for growth rates and health of the fry themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 No problem Anita we will have to agree to disagree. I think if you keep the Adults in the right conditions and feed them the right food most of the problems will go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita_ozfish Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 :D no worries Nigel.A 6 bar female I used to have had two dickey bars at the tail end of her body on one side only. Everytime she had fry, about 50% of them would have the same dicky bars. Are you suggesting that if I had fed her differently she would have thrown good fry?? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 What i am suggesting is that there would not have been 50%. My understanding is that the GH plays a part in all this and the protein level of the food. Also the chemical make up of the GH. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Hmmm...environment versus hereditary..I would have to agree with Anita on this. My uncle was in Vietnam and exposed to chemicals there. He had a child who was born with a cleft pallet which could back up Nigel's argument (since his first born, without deformity, arrived before his tour). However, would you say that blue eyes, or widow's peaks or the ability to roll your tongue are environmentally determined??I guess what I'm trying to say (probably in a clumsy way) is that not all "mutations" are of environmental origin.merjo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I think the biggest problem with these 7 bars is that they are probably locally bred and may eventually pop up in the classifieds. So I think everyone should be extra careful.Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 .I think they should just kill them all. I think that's just plain wrong Do you kill or throw out everything that's not perfect? :o IMO there's nothing wrong with the shop selling them, the fish are only worth as much as the buyer is willing to pay at the end of the day.Re: environment versus hereditaryBit of both :DEnvironment would cause the initial problem which then may or may not be passed on to the offspring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcoastgold Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Tsk tsk Edward.What would you have us do if poor quality fish like these get into the mainstream and end up mixed with good quality fish. What would result is that there would be no good quality fish at all for anybody. Would you just call it a new species?Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I expect most (but definately not all) variation is genetic.Good food and environment definately help - but given that almost all the fish in question are deformed in more or less the same way I would say in this case the problem is a genetic one.To me at least it is unlikely that they are cross breeds - more likely (IMCO) is that they are the product of serious inbreeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Tsk tsk Edward.What would you have us do if poor quality fish like these get into the mainstream and end up mixed with good quality fish. What would result is that there would be no good quality fish at all for anybody. Would you just call it a new species?Josh Josh,I'd assume breeders would know what a quality fish is and would not even attempt to mate a below standard fish with any of their fish.Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 There are plenty of people I would like to see steralised so they can't pass on their crappy genes too.Who is defining what a quality frontosa looks like? Search through pictures of wild fronnies. Tell me how many would fit the criteria to be a "breeder" in someone like Anita's tanks. ((Anita knows I am not having a personal shot at her)) The frontosa we have in tanks now are pretty much line bred versions of wild varients. If somebody finally did import some new stock, wild or F1, or a new varient like the "Blue Zaires" everybody is jumping around about, everyone would then go on to bitch about how crap the bars are.If the fish were supposed to have perfectly straight, perfectly even barring, then the majority of wild stock would look that way, instead of the miniority.You frontosa people are shooting your own feet, in your eternal bid for perfection you are loosing or neglecting the majority of different bloodlines because of a few scales out of place. This is how the fish actually look!!**end rant**Sorry but Im sick of hearing about frontosa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 :D :D :D Ducksta, the frontosa in question have 7 bars on one side and 6 on the other, You can't say that is a slight imperfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Point taken. However, I feel my point stands as general comment, but perhaps not in relation to this specific batch of fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanceswithDingoes Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I'm with Ducky........fronnies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medowieman Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I'm with Anita, bar configuration is totally genetic. Inbeeding is the culprit. Bye, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightexpress Posted November 27, 2003 Author Share Posted November 27, 2003 I still say culling is a way to go. all good breaders cull de-formed fish.some time this week go to the aquarium and have a look at them.I'm sure you will change your mind on the issue.there are only 2 aquariums at canly vale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hph Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 There're actually three if you travel up the road a little But really is it the shop's fault for selling them ? Isn't it up to the buyer to check out the merchandise ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serial-Cichlid Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 There's only 2 in Canley Vale. If you go up a little there is one in Lansvale and another in Cabramatta (more a petshop from what I hear of this one).Its definitely not the one in Lansvale. They haven't stocked up on fronties for a while now. I only know this cos that's my LFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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