anthO Posted September 23, 2006 Author Share Posted September 23, 2006 Hi, Does anyone know what age do tropheus start to colour up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 Hi Anthony, i haven't had a chance to reply to your many questions....it is great u are showing serious interest in tropheus! it looks like u have already researched answers to questions u have asked on other forums but what u need to understand is what we tell is what we have actually experienced so different people will have different opinions....there is never a strict formula that is always correct when it comes to keeping tropheus. anyway, we really want to help u so keep asking questions! here are some of my answers to your questions based on actual experience.....remember it should not be strictly abided by: - if u want to keep Ts and enjoy it to the fullest u should invest in a good light. As Jon has mentioned, without a hood, u can rest a light on top of the tank. It is just sometimes a little fiddly when u need to remove the lids to clean the tank or feed the fish. U could always invest in T5 or MH lighting mounted on the ceiling!!! - as for fish arriving DOA...there is never a 100% guarantee. U will need to discuss with the shipper beforehand what happens if his/her fish arrive DOA....will they reinburse u with money or more fish or whether u should just accept that it happens and it is the luck of the draw. If the fish are individually bagged and oxygenated and insulated in a foam container i think there is a high chance they will arrive alive. I sent fish to Perth which arrived there at night and the airport forgot to notify the recipient and was kept in the hangar overnight in the middle of winter and when the buyer picked them up the next morning they were all alive!!! Also if u are getting German imports the fish remain in transit for 24-48 hrs and many still survive! Juveniles 3cm also have a better chance of surviving. I got 12 wildcaught GOlden Kazumba from Germany and 5 of them died over a period of 4 weeks. I already had 4 GKs from a previous shipment so with 11 fish i have had more than 50 fry!!! - Whether to strip or spit is a question that is constantly debated even amongst seasoned tropheus keepers....i have experimented with both and must say there are pros and cons of both methods. When u strip, u are more likely to have higher fry yields ie. >10 fry per mouthful. If u let then release in the tank, even when it is heavily rocked, u may get only half the number! However, with stripping, some say the fry lose their ability to hold fry when they become adults? Another problem is u will need to know when to strip each female....usually after 3 weeks, fry are fully formed and egg sacs are gone....if u strip prematurely u will need to place them in egg tumblers to prevent fungal growth on the eggs...this will likely result in a smaller yield. Another advantage of stripping is the females will not get too deconditioned from holding their fry too long and therefore will be regularly breeding ie. every 6 weeks. I did find stripping tropheus that have never been stripped before quite distressing for them. I have had 2 moliro females die of bloat shortly after stripping. I don't know if this was the cause or whether it was just a coincidence. However, saying that, some females will spit their load into the bucket of water once u catch her and place her in it! I have recently experimented with catching the holding female after 3 weeks and placing her in a 50cm cube tank and allowing her to release in the tank. After she has completely released her fry and recuperated her strength she is reintroduced into the colony. I thought it would be a problem but the colony accepted her straight away and the dom male went to greet her by doing the breeding shake!!! - fry after 3 weeks in the females mouth and stripped are usually 1-1.5 cm. I have had females hold-release-hold for up to 4-5 weeks and they would have fry of 2cm!!! But they would only have 2-3 in their mouth. - tropheus can breed from 9-12 months or 2.5inches or above - some smaller tropheus like kaiser 2/kiriza can breed at smaller sizes. - tropheus can even start to colour up and lose there stripes temporarily at 3-4cm, depending on mood...ie. when displaying to others or fighting for dominance. Tropheus grow quickly to 5cm. It takes longer to grow from 5-12 cm. Some subdominant adults esp. females may even retain their juvenile markings/stripes/dots. I found my moliros and ilangi didn't truly colour up until they were >8cm. The ikolas i had before were already quite colourful at 5cm and as i mentioned before, they tend to always have good coloration irrespective of mood and dominance. Sometimes the head will go pale, even white when frightened. - if u grow up a colony of juveniles, u will not need to cull any males as they grow up together. This is because the social hierarchy would have been well developed during their maturation. However, if u add any new tropheus it may disrupt the balance and u may, but necessarily find some trouble makers that will not change even if u change the tank decor. If u are adding new adults to the colony, there will be a total disruption of the colony dynamics and u may have all out war in that once peaceful colony, however, saying that u might be lucky and have not problems. I added 7 wildcaught GKs to my pre-existing 4 and there was no significant aggression..but i also had 10 ikolas in that tank which was the more dominant species and that may have helped the situation. I found out from Jim why his ilangi colony is breeding like clockwork (Jim i hope u don't mind me revealing your secret)....he has slowly over a period of 2-3 years removed one male at a time (he would usually remove the subdominant male that is being picked on by the dominant one)....now he has a colony with a very high female to male ratio. - u can keep ikolas with any moorii including moliro, ilangi etc. etc. But as i mentioned, the ikola will likely dominate the other colony and the less dominant variant will not display the best colours and they will not be allowed to breed. When i placed the GKs with the ikolas, everytime the GKs tried to breed the dominant ikola male will come and break it up....there was never any physical aggression to the GKs though. I guess u have to decide what is important for you....do u want a breeding tank or a display tank? - i had 10 ikola in my 5 footer, but i also had the 11 GKs. But when i sold my ikolas, i kept the 11 GKs with 3 cyprochromis and they were ok in there and were breeding well. However, when i removed 12 males from my ilangi colony and left 2 males and 9 females, there was a lot of aggression for a few days and then things settled again after the colony hierarchy was re-established. I would recommend u getting as many ikolas as u can possibly afford and then u will be able to enjoy the colony a lot more in the long-term. - in terms of tank mates....good ones are cyprochromis sp., a pair or trio of julidochromis, a pair of eretmodus cyanosticus, bristlenose or golden sucker catfish and even petrochromis trewasavae. any more questions? hth Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilroy Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 It never ceases to amaze me how helpful all you T nuts are to us T newbies!! Thanks again, and imo the poor old Duboisi cops some unfair treatment. I love my little maswa's. Cheers Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthO Posted September 23, 2006 Author Share Posted September 23, 2006 Thanks for the good reply Dave, Before i get my tropheus i was wondering that because i already have 10 electric yellows, 10 white nights and 10 of these blue fish not sure what they are(there my dads). However when i get the tropheus they will all be in the same tank for only about a week or so.... but after that the tropheus will be on there own. Also i was wondering if you know anyone that has ikola juveniles or fry for sale?? Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilroy Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 Antho, I was really sold on the Moliro's as soon as I saw a dominant male in an aquarium. It's abilities to almost glow red were amazing. I decided I wanted to keep them from that day on. Problem was, I couldn't source any. Most aquariums only had one or two and were charging up to $90 ea for 4-5cm juvies. I ended up going for a different type, the Ndole Red. Sometimes referred to as Ndole Red Fluorescent. I couldn't be happier, they look very similar to the Moliro's and have beautiful colouring on some already @4-5cm. My point is, you may really be in love with a particular type, but availability could be an issue. I would look at what is available out there from the breeders, and do your research from there. If you like the yellow colouring, the Ilangi might suit you, it is up to you in the end, but there are so many beautiful variants out there, I'm sure you will be able to find another type just as good if the Ikola aren't available. Its all to do with luck and timing! ps I think the Lufubu's are something special. They have a tinge of green to them, look awesome. I also like the Kasanga Red Rainbows but no-one has them atm. Good luck with whatever you decide. Cheers Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthO Posted September 23, 2006 Author Share Posted September 23, 2006 Thanks Shane, That is very true, and yeh the yellow really stands out and is nice but its just the black and the yellow that i reckon make the fish look really good But i think im gonna stick to them but thanks for that advice Cheers Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 the only people i know who have ikolas are: Jim, Ben - bought some from Jim!, Andreas (az1) - he bought my colony and recently was selling some and Craig as u already know. Jim does not ship interstate...u will need to find someone who will ship them for u. Any LFS can get 3cm ikolas from Bayfish (if they currently have them) - from memory they cost me $40 each!!! hth Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilroy Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 Thanks Shane, That is very true, and yeh the yellow really stands out and is nice but its just the black and the yellow that i reckon make the fish look really good But i think im gonna stick to them but thanks for that advice Cheers Anthony No worries, hope you have some luck finding some. Don't know what the T community is like in Vic! I saw 15 really small fry at a local aquarium here the other day. They were Kaizer 2 I think. Very cute. Good luck Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthO Posted September 23, 2006 Author Share Posted September 23, 2006 Well in Victoria i would have to say that not many people breed tropheus that i know of but im sure theres a few out there i just cant seem to find them.... Also would any of use have a idea of how much freight would be for say about 15 tropheus. Cheers Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 The answers you have been getting from Aline, Moliroman and spedwards have been spot on. AnthO, remember fish keeping is not an exact science, but there are some basic parameters, and skills that are needed, and the first I think is the desire to seek knowledge. The problem with this is it is entirely possible to ask the same question to five different people, and get five different answers. The reason for this is what I have put down to what I call the “Life Buffer Theory” http://www.aceforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=18866 What you need to do is find …one person who you can model your tank from, take their information over others, and as you gain experience, you can do what you think best. I’m sure you’ve been directed to Steve’s webpage in Perth. His information is really good, and a lot of people on these pages, including me, cut their Tropheus teeth on Steve’s information. I don’t have the time to respond to all the questions you are putting up, but I think they have all been adequately answered anyway. But I would like to try to help by writing what I would do in your situation. In addition to this being an information hobby, the other attribute you can utilise is patience. So get everything in order (including a light) and then wait till you get the fish you want. Use your five footer, get a light on it, and stock it with fish so it stays a fully cycled tank. When you get your fish, remove existing fish, and replace with Tropheus. Use the drip method to acclimatise your new fish to this tank. Use Seachems Cichlid Lake Salts, and their KH generator in this tank. Do regular weekly 1/3 water changes – bore them with repetitiveness. Have good water turnover, 5-6 times per hour (my tank is turned over 11 times per hour). Feed the fish with NLS. Get a minimum of 15 fish. Now, I’m not saying if you don’t do the above you won’t have success, but from my experience, if you follow the above, you will give your new fish a the broadest “Life Buffer” chance of survival with no issues or losses due to bloat. You might be successful with 10 fish in a four footer….but then you may not, and from my perspective and experience, I would not even try to do so with these numbers in this size tank as I know I’ll open myself up to possible issues, which are better avoided from the outset. I know there are people who do so succesfully, but I wouldn't recommend anyone to do it. Contrary to what you may be thinking, Tropheus ARE hardy fish. I have had my colony going now for years, and have never had bloat, other than an issue from shop bought fish when I first got them. Believe me, it is truly heart breaking to see these fish when young particularly, roll over in the tank. But if you do the right things, you may very well will never see it. After some ……4 years, my fish are still happy, healthy, over 50 strong in their colony, with a constant stream of young coming through. I’ve got three to strip this week, and I stripped out twenty three babies last week. As I replied in your PM to me, I do have K1 for sale, and there are probably enough at a saleable size at the moment, though I may be one or two short of 15. Your problem is how will you get them? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrdog Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I agree with Craig, different strokes for different folks. I did what Craig suggested, I did loads of research and then modelled my Tropheus keeping on Jim's advice. I have had my colony for two and a half years and have had no deaths from disease and only one death from a fish that jumped out of a holding bucket. Here's my routine. Tank- 5 foot (470 litres) Filtration- canisters, 6 times per hour tank turnover, and a uv steraliser Lights- yes Heating- Two 300 Watt heaters Fish- close to 40 adults Food- NLS Cichlid Pellets fed twice a day Water Changes- 50% once per week Water Preparation- Water is aged in a 220litre drum, here it is heated, aerated, salted and buffered. I add 5 teaspoons of Seachem Lake Salt and 22 teaspoons of Lake Tang Buffer to the drum. This gives me a kH of about 16 - 18 and a gH of about 10. My pH is about 8.5 and my water temp is about 25.5 degrees. I followed the advice of Jim to the letter, especially the water preparation. Is this the only way to do things? No way, but I wouldn't do it any other way, because of Jim's advice I have had total success. I do however know plenty of others who have success doing things differently to me. What we have in common though is our consistency. Good luck, Jamie. Here's a pic of the gang in their tank . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthO Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Thanks for the info, and different people will have different opinions...so true I am going to get my tropheus in a few weeks and when i do i will post with some photos I dont have any more questions at the moment but im sure i will soon And very nice fish jamie Thank You all you have been very helpfull, Cheers Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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