Prime or Aquastar?

[patchy]

How much ppm of chloramine is in tap water? i'm not sure but i bet it isnt very high, even during the chloramine 'peaks', remember it's still gotta be safe to drink.

Reduce the concerntration according to the ammount of water you replace (eg 1ppm of NH2Cl solution (tap water), 50% waterchange thus .5ppm in the tank)

Prime or aquastar comes along and nutralises all toxisities 'within minutes'. Thus most Nitrate your going to get is .5ppm (1:1 ratio of NO3 and NH2Cl). Insignificant at best.

ps i run water streight from the tap and add Prime to the tank water, dosing the ammount of water which is being replaced.

[steve24cro]

i think people worry about all these chemical reactions for nothing. I know LFS owner who told me himself that test kits in most situations are a waist of money, its all to make you buy more, spend more. He told me he never tests any of his tanks, never worries about nitrate or ammonia or any of that stuff.

If you do frequent large enough water changes and have good filtration and most of all dont over feed, you dont need any test kits. when i first started fish keeping i bought all these test kits like ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, carbonate hardness, hardness, PH, Phosphate etc and threw them all out a few years ago and havent tested my water since.

Hasnt made any difference to my fish, all happy and healthy. Point is, if you do regular good maintenance and have good filtration for the tank size, you are waisting time testing water parameters.

More you worry about all these tests, the more you can stuff things up, coz people tend to panic about ammonia and nitrate alot.

This is my view based on a community tank, where i do 50% water change weekly and turn the water over 8 - 10 times per hour with filters. I am not saying this may apply in every situation, but certainly most.

[Simonauv]

Whilst I tend to agree with this, I do however believe it is important to understand these reactions so you understand how things operate in a tank instead of having blind faith in the filters and your regular maintenance regime (even the most regimented schedule comes unstuck every now and then). The best way to do that is to make tests as things progress and make a mental note of any patterns to get a feel for water chemistry and the associated warning signs that fish exhibit when things are not to their liking. I also know that keeping and maintaining tanks like saltwater aquariums is quite difficult without test kits especially if you want to keep touchy things like sea urchins and other echinoderms that will die from osmotic shock where salinity in their new water varies by less than 0.0001ppm to their old water. So throw your test kits away by all means but make sure you understand what you are doing before you do...

[anchar]

Hi Mat...sorry missed your post. I have never used Prime in my life. I had a bottle of ammolock that was off (as was the entire batch) and upon use it put ammonia through 6 large tanks here. I got away with minmal losses but I was not impressed. I have used Ammolock successfully for many years and hopefully it won't happen again.

Andrea

[wui39]

i think people worry about all these chemical reactions for nothing. I know LFS owner who told me himself that test kits in most situations are a waist of money, its all to make you buy more, spend more. He told me he never tests any of his tanks, never worries about nitrate or ammonia or any of that stuff.

If you do frequent large enough water changes and have good filtration and most of all dont over feed, you dont need any test kits. when i first started fish keeping i bought all these test kits like ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, carbonate hardness, hardness, PH, Phosphate etc and threw them all out a few years ago and havent tested my water since.

Hasnt made any difference to my fish, all happy and healthy. Point is, if you do regular good maintenance and have good filtration for the tank size, you are waisting time testing water parameters.

More you worry about all these tests, the more you can stuff things up, coz people tend to panic about ammonia and nitrate alot.

This is my view based on a community tank, where i do 50% water change weekly and turn the water over 8 - 10 times per hour with filters. I am not saying this may apply in every situation, but certainly most.

←

I agree up to a certain point, I didn't test my tanks for a very long time and still had all my fish ok and even breeding.

For some people though certain fish will not spawn unless the most "correct" conditions are given. (All you catfish lovers out there, this one is for you) So test kits, ph probes/monitors, TDS probes.....etc are still a necessary part of the regime there.

[r.d.m]

thats right wui ,people think thats cos its an lfs they must know what there doing when in a lot of cases this is patently untrue the tanks are overcrowded the fish are transient and with few exceptions wont breed 2 examples where using a test kit would help is from the same lfs ,a few years ago the previous owner wiped out his entire marine section before deciding to test the water which had an ammonia spike,easily rectified with a water change and some ammolock or the like,several years later at the same shop(different owner) i swapped some elongatus fry for some mainganos which he assured me were in tankwater with a ph of 7.8 as i didnt believe him i tested the bag water before putting the fish in my tank and it was 6.2 ! so yes its probably true that some lfs dont test their water (and whens the last time you saw a thermometer in a tank) i still believe in testing my water for my own peace of mind and for anyone keeping africans ca's discus etc i would think testing the ph is critical-no i wont be throwing out my test kits

[Simonauv]

IMO it is an lfs owner's 'duty of care' or responsibility to know what conditions their fish are kept in and pass this information on to the buyer. Test kits are more important for the lfs owner than anyone because I would imagine they are liable for any deaths/damage caused by misinformation etc. Or am I an idealist lol. I always liked Krempins in Floraville near Newcastle for that. They had a large computerised water management system and you could walk in and look at the readings and see at a glance what the chemical and physical properties of the water was and know that it was pretty much spot on.

[nanikjava]

i think people worry about all these chemical reactions for nothing. I know LFS owner who told me himself that test kits in most situations are a waist of money, its all to make you buy more, spend more. He told me he never tests any of his tanks, never worries about nitrate or ammonia or any of that stuff.

If you do frequent large enough water changes and have good filtration and most of all dont over feed, you dont need any test kits. when i first started fish keeping i bought all these test kits like ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, carbonate hardness, hardness, PH, Phosphate etc and threw them all out a few years ago and havent tested my water since.

Hasnt made any difference to my fish, all happy and healthy. Point is, if you do regular good maintenance and have good filtration for the tank size, you are waisting time testing water parameters.

More you worry about all these tests, the more you can stuff things up, coz people tend to panic about ammonia and nitrate alot.

This is my view based on a community tank, where i do 50% water change weekly and turn the water over 8 - 10 times per hour with filters. I am not saying this may apply in every situation, but certainly most.

Was looking around for information about water changes best practises. Two things just want to asked here:

1. Just want to confirm with the people who have kept Africans Cichlid for long time whether they do water changes by adding the water straight to their tanks and add water conditioner OR they leave it overnight before adding to the tanks ?

2. I've also been reading from the previous posting in this forum that the addition of salt is good for Cichlid ? can't I just the water as it is without adding anything else into it ?

Cheers

[fongyfong]

i think people worry about all these chemical reactions for nothing. I know LFS owner who told me himself that test kits in most situations are a waist of money, its all to make you buy more, spend more. He told me he never tests any of his tanks, never worries about nitrate or ammonia or any of that stuff.

If you do frequent large enough water changes and have good filtration and most of all dont over feed, you dont need any test kits. when i first started fish keeping i bought all these test kits like ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, carbonate hardness, hardness, PH, Phosphate etc and threw them all out a few years ago and havent tested my water since.

Hasnt made any difference to my fish, all happy and healthy. Point is, if you do regular good maintenance and have good filtration for the tank size, you are waisting time testing water parameters.

More you worry about all these tests, the more you can stuff things up, coz people tend to panic about ammonia and nitrate alot.

This is my view based on a community tank, where i do 50% water change weekly and turn the water over 8 - 10 times per hour with filters. I am not saying this may apply in every situation, but certainly most.

Was looking around for information about water changes best practises. Two things just want to asked here:

1. Just want to confirm with the people who have kept Africans Cichlid for long time whether they do water changes by adding the water straight to their tanks and add water conditioner OR they leave it overnight before adding to the tanks ?

2. I've also been reading from the previous posting in this forum that the addition of salt is good for Cichlid ? can't I just the water as it is without adding anything else into it ?

Cheers

WOW this thread is acient but anyways to answer your questions, i use to have cichlids for two years

1) I added the water straight to the tank then i quickly added the prime or conditioner, always worked for me no deaths at all

2)Adding cichlid salt and buffering the water to the right PH is better for the fish. .Though your fish will be arlight if you dont add the extra stuff and you have other things buffering the water. Africans are pretty hardy fish

[Link2Hell]

Yep Fongy old thread but a good one

Simon is an old friend and has a background in science so

unlike us laymen can advise chemical compounds

just a few things that came up in this thread

water parameters are not a constant and can change in

Sydney metro depending on supply point and fluctuation

of chemical additives due to weather and pipe conditions

check your local waterboard website for current parameters

sydney water analysis

found here http://www.sydneywater.com.au/WaterQuality

everyone starts out or has no other option than to use the

direct hose technique and add some form of neutraliser

you need to use a hose setting that creates bubbles when

breaking the surface tension and increase aeration to dissapate

the released gases

you will know when this method fails by the reaction of

the fish that will change from swimming through the stream

of new water to clamping fins and flashing off objects and

substrate when the fish notice any irritants

I'm a fan of preconditioning water in drums and using a powerhead

and hose for filling up but it all comes up to available space

as far as test kits go, for a newbie they are a must as how else

do they know a starting point for the water parameters or new tanks

when the bacteria colony is being established in the filter to check

for the ammonia levels .... you only have to look at the number new

tank syndrome posts there are on any forum

for those that have established a pattern in their water maintainence

and only keep species with the same water qualities then the need to

have any water testing equipment is your choice but a bottle of pH

tester never goes astray

remember that you can overdose with these products especially if

used when bagging fish so follow the directions and refer to Simons

post on the reaction of chemical equilibrium which is why water from

"Primed" bags can show a drop in pH

please note that a reduction in pH will also reduce the toxic level of

any free ammonia that may not be detected

Chris

[Mattzilla]

I've been using Aquastar for a couple of years now and never had a problem. I treat m water prior to water changes.

it's very economical to use too... especially when you are changing lots fo water!

[fongyfong]

Yep Fongy old thread but a good one

Simon is an old friend and has a background in science so

unlike us laymen can advise chemical compounds

just a few things that came up in this thread

water parameters are not a constant and can change in

Sydney metro depending on supply point and fluctuation

of chemical additives due to weather and pipe conditions

check your local waterboard website for current parameters

sydney water analysis

found here http://www.sydneywater.com.au/WaterQuality

everyone starts out or has no other option than to use the

direct hose technique and add some form of neutraliser

you need to use a hose setting that creates bubbles when

breaking the surface tension and increase aeration to dissapate

the released gases

you will know when this method fails by the reaction of

the fish that will change from swimming through the stream

of new water to clamping fins and flashing off objects and

substrate when the fish notice any irritants

I'm a fan of preconditioning water in drums and using a powerhead

and hose for filling up but it all comes up to available space

as far as test kits go, for a newbie they are a must as how else

do they know a starting point for the water parameters or new tanks

when the bacteria colony is being established in the filter to check

for the ammonia levels .... you only have to look at the number new

tank syndrome posts there are on any forum

for those that have established a pattern in their water maintainence

and only keep species with the same water qualities then the need to

have any water testing equipment is your choice but a bottle of pH

tester never goes astray

remember that you can overdose with these products especially if

used when bagging fish so follow the directions and refer to Simons

post on the reaction of chemical equilibrium which is why water from

"Primed" bags can show a drop in pH

please note that a reduction in pH will also reduce the toxic level of

any free ammonia that may not be detected

Chris

Yes i agree test kits are a must to check ammonia nitrates etc

[fongyfong]

I've been using Aquastar for a couple of years now and never had a problem. I treat m water prior to water changes.

it's very economical to use too... especially when you are changing lots fo water!

Does aquastar give out that smell later on?

[nanikjava]

From the experience that people have here, does putting the water into the tank and than adding Aquastar works without problem ? or it's still recommended to put the water into different place and put Aquastar and leave it overnight before changing the water ? I'm interested to know about Sydney in particular.

[CThompson]

From the experience that people have here, does putting the water into the tank and than adding Aquastar works without problem ? or it's still recommended to put the water into different place and put Aquastar and leave it overnight before changing the water ? I'm interested to know about Sydney in particular.

You are only considering the benefits of using barrels over direct water entry with a hose, when thinking about water conditioners, and you are not considering other parameters such as pre temperature, pH and KH adjustment, and the ability to clean

the water before it goes into the tank.

It’s also wonderful to have a large quantity of water that’s “good to go”

should the need arise.

IF you have a choice and can set up a system where you use pre prepared water – then do it. IT IS BETTER THAN PUTTING WATER STRAIGHT IN

WITH A HOSE.

If you don’t have an option, then you don’t have an option,

so move on to a lesser choice. But it is

a lesser choice, and be aware that it is.

Will putting water straight in with a hose cause you a problem (Sydney based or

not)? Yes - it might.

Will water changing with pre prepared water cause a

problem? No it won’t.

I haven’t seen this thread for years, it’s great to see

people trawl around for questions to answers that have been asked and answered

before – even if it leads to further questions.

I enjoyed Simon’s answers as well.

It is my understanding that the “extra” nitrate comes from

the ammonia that breaks down to nitrate once the bond between the ammonia and

chlorine is broken apart from the chloramines.

If Simon is still posting – please feel free to correct my

understanding.

I have pre prepared water for all my tanks at my present

location for nearly a decade and a half, using Safe as the water ager. I have

never had a problem, and once the water preparation system is set up (the biggest

hurdle) it is set up for years and makes water changing easy and takes the Russian

roulette out of the hobby.

I agree too that there is a place for water test kits, and

the lfs who said there wasn’t is an amateur.

I test water occasionally, if there is a need, for example three weeks

ago I tested water in my octagonal tank prior to adding some young blue

rams. They currently have young. Ammonia and nitrite kits are of more use when

a tank is being cycled, or with less experience hobbyists who need to check in case

Houston has a problem.