TropheusQueen Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Hi all, Some of you may recall the following post about my first struggle with bloat after many years of keeping my beloved Tropheus. http://www.aceforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=18464&hl= The Nkondes were not able to be saved - my lack of education and the time delay caused all but one (now going in a display tank ) to leave this mortal coil Part of the treatment also meant that any fish displaying signs of bloat were euthanaised to prevent further infectious spread.) Unfortunately a second tank was infected - I think via the same primary water source as there was no opportunity for cross contamination. This time around we sacrificed one for all and off to the vet for live cultures and slides etc to be investigated. The bacteria was named (further later) the antibiotic given via injection to the fish - YES I have now also learnt to inject my fish Food was also soaked and fed to those still eating and lo and behold minimal losses with the main colony still intact. Injecting the fish is the most stressful part, not only on the fish but on me - however the results have been amazing. The process less intimidating than it sounds and the outcome one I can definately cope with in future. I promised an article and will have one for the next NSWCS mag as well as the forum. Cheers Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Great news on the treat Aline At least we now have a vet in wollongong who is interested enough to help out when it comes to treating fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted August 30, 2005 Author Share Posted August 30, 2005 Definately more comfortable knowing he's a bird and fish man Also his staff think nothing of the stressed out woman with the fish in a bag that sits awaiting her turn all in a days work at this surgery Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanceswithDingoes Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Mike Cannon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted August 30, 2005 Author Share Posted August 30, 2005 That's the one. Came home a few weeks ago to my female cockatiel not feeling well - concussion -he was amazing and well worth his reputation We got to talking about fish and the rest is history. Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrdog Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 G'day Aline, I'm sorry about the Nkondes, poor little guys. You tried your best mate. Like Josh said, it's good that you have found a great Vet. It's funny you know, I currently have a baby Eclectus Parrot that is still being handreared by a breeder in Fairy Meadow. Her name is Trish, she is unreal. Anyway, she recommended Mike as the Vet I should use for my little Herbie. It's great to know that my future Bird Vet knows a thing or two about Tropheus. Below is a pic of my little Herbie. Seeya, and I hope Bloat is well and truly a memory for you, Jamie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted August 30, 2005 Author Share Posted August 30, 2005 Little Herbie is adorable - the eclectus are a great parrot Touch wood you will never need Mike but great to know that he is there Cheers Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Aline it is a shame you and your fish have had to deal with the bloat outbreak, but at the same time you should be happy in the fact that with your sacrifices you have helped to unravel one of the most heartbreaking diseases to afflict the hobby. I await in eager anticipation to find out what the causeative agent is, and the relevant treatment.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 The Nkondes were not able to be saved - my lack of education and the time delay caused all but one (now going in a display tank ) to leave this mortal coil ← "buried ... without shroud or coffin" It certainly is a shame, but I look forward to seeing said article, as I am compiling knowledge to take the plunge as soon as Nigel gets some bloody Bu'ulu Point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Sorry Aline to hear about your Nkondes! I hope that hasn't turned you off your healthy addiction to Tropheus! I am very interested to hear about injecting antibiotics to a fish. I tried using a syringe to inject metronidazole soaked antibiotic to my tropheus in the past but thought they were not getting much of a dose. Could u describe how u do it since i would like to know how to do it just in case. I inject humans with no problems but fish will be impressive!!!! What antibiotics did they recommend? Jamie...luv the parrot! Would have to come and see it when u finally get it! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 Hi Dave, Could u describe how u do it since i would like to know how to do it just in case. I inject humans with no problems but fish will be impressive!!!! What antibiotics did they recommend? I treated for Aeromonas spp. as this was the most prevalent in the fish and the water - IM injection of Doxycycline 0.005mg/g - 0.1cc/100g BW of 1:10 diluted sample. Injected above the lateral line towards the base of the dorsal into the muscle group that is there. I also soaked their food and fed all other variants for prophylactic reasons. The metronidazole, in all forms IV and crushed tablet were ineffective. Dave I don't need to explain this to you of all people so for others reading this please note that bloat is the final symptom of any range of bacterial infection and like in humans, a correct diagnosis is paramount to success. Otherwise you are just medicating for the sake of it, already stressed, unhappy fish - exacerbating the problem. Learnt that one the hard way No it has not dampened my enthusiasm - just made me more determined HTH Cheers Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fins Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Aline, You said Aeromonas sp. was most prevailant in the water. Just curious, did you need to treat the tank water as well? Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 Certainly did. Tank was treated, food was soaked and fish injected. Any fish displaying white faeces and significant bloating were euthanised. Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Great to hear u haven't lost your desire for Tropheus !!!! I was starting to think us Tropheus fanatics are becoming an extinct species! It makes sense to give them IM antibiotics since it also works that way in humans. But i don't know if it would be your first line attempt at treating them due to the added stress factor. I think it would take something close to a miracle to save some that are gripped with the later signs of bloat! Thanks for giving me another option in case i need to use it as a last resort!!! By the way what gauge or size needle did u use? thx Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 By the way what gauge or size needle did u use? That was the scary thing the syringes the vet gave me had quite large sharps attached and I couldn't for the life of me imagine sticking a fish with it!! Obviously if the molecules in the medication required a bigger exit I would have no choice - so I checked and ended up using the 22 gauge syringes that I have plenty of As long as the fish are eating then soaked food would be the first line of defence, after that I would use the IM injection to ensure absorption As soon as the mess with Fair Trading is sorted one way or the other, then I will have more than enough tanks to fill them with Tropheus to my hearts content. Cheers Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ged Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Aline Rather than an Intramuscular (IM) injection could you have done an Intraperoteneal (IP) injection? I know there are pros and cons in both methods but I was curious if your Vet discussed IP as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 Hi Ged, The concern was that with an IP we could do more damage than good eg perforated bowel although if the fish was in an extreme stage you could take the shot, excuse the pun, and see it's effect. Cheers Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 What you have described here Aline I fear that Tropheus may becoming immune to the normal drugs for bloat. So the next time it happens to me I will be looking for your help instead of the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted September 3, 2005 Author Share Posted September 3, 2005 Hey hey Nigel, That's exactly how a hobby should be - swings and roundabouts - and helping each other Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Great to hear we are all sharing our experiences and expanding our knowledge about treating bloat! I guess one of those diabetic syringes with the fine needle would be ideal to use for IM injections! I just hope that i won't have to use it one day on my fish! By the way, i was wondering if all this talk about difficulties in treating bloat has turned away a lot of people from keeping Tropheus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted September 3, 2005 Author Share Posted September 3, 2005 I really don't think that it has At the NSWCS meeting this evening there was alot of interest in the Bulu juveniles I put in the fish raffle Also quite a few individuals were asking me alot of questions about their own colonies or colonies they wish to invest in. I believe they will always be a species to strive for and our experiences, as have the experiences before ours, will only serve to hopefully increase the success rate of Tropheus colonies Cheers Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Good work Aline...looking forward to reading your notes on this. Andrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 I for one will be looking eagerly for a Tropheus Revival where the fear of bloat will be no longer a deterent for Tropheus keeping in our cichlid community! With more people keeping and breeding good quality tropheus we could lower the cost of buying a colony which i still think is a major deterent. I have tried to sell my tropheus fry at ridiculously low prices to encourage the hobby but people r still unwilling to invest in something they fear will die of bloat even if u do everything right like keeping perfect water quality and feed sparingly good quality spirulina flakes + NLS pellets! Also with more interest in tropheus we could bring in some rarer varieties! By the way how is "King Bulu" - is it still causing mischief? Has it produced any offspring? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Unfortunatley i have to agree, I have had heeps of people see my tropheus and instantly love em, but then they always ask dont they die really easily, to which i usually reply, not if they are looked after properly, and may elaborate if they are seriously interested, have a vauge understanding and reasonable peoples! Also as mentioned about their cost, of each fish, and the requirement to have more than just a few of each, coupled with the myth that they will puff up and die when looked at strangly, it really doenst help these super cuties much. But I am hooked, happy and excited to have these fish, i must admit that after one experience with these guys i nearly through in the towel, but realised that due to circumstances, and bad luck, and things that could have been done better/properly! and the fact that it wee wEEed me off, and I wanteed to proove to myself i knew what i was doing, i again have more than a healthy obsession with Tropheus, and have now got 5 different sort, 3 good colonies, one dudE that was given to me , and a few hard buM survivors! LONG LIVE THE TROPHEUS SP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted September 4, 2005 Author Share Posted September 4, 2005 Hey Hey Dave, King Bulu rules The juvies that I put in the raffle last night were his and I have another ten growing well and four females holding He is a busy boy I believe I will always have an interest in T's. I will always share what I know and give the best advice I can. I do not encourage the sale of any fewer than 10 fish in a colony which IMO gives the new owners a good start. I still believe they are not too difficult a species to keep but the extra attention they require continues to put people off. Like anything, the extra effort will make all the difference. Cheers Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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