OziOscar Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 Hello Sorry to be sharing so much of my personal life on here lately, but I figure that if there is a group of folk who are representative of the hobby at large then it would be the esteemed members of these forums. I have been offered an LFS... to buy the business. I'm at the stage in life where I can do these things, but want to make sure that it would become a place that is representative of the hobby and would be commercially viable... and be worthy of becoming a forum sponsor. What characteristics of an LFS make you want to go there? If it is local to you? If it is a 20 minute drive from the CBD? What sort of things make you want to buy retail instead of inside the hobby? What makes you feel a loyalty to an LFS over another that may be more convenient? When you see an LFS for the first time, what makes you want to go in there? What makes you want to buy? Do you prefer a smooth, fashionable environment (think nice, attractive retail environment) or a more rugged and utilitarian place that looks like a nice, clean, professional fish-room? If you hear about an LFS, what makes you want to go there? Why would you get in the car and drive for up to an hour to go there? What kind of livestock do you expect? What kind of equipment (major items like tanks, filters, etc) would you expect to buy? How do you feel about the prices that are offered around Sydney at the moment for these items? Tell me what you like and dislike about LFS, if you would. I'm thinking to sink a large chunk of change into this and want to do something that would be both beneficial to the hobby and give me something to do for the next 20-odd. :D Cheers - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucifersJester Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 For me it would be: 1) Advertising - If I can't find it I won't go there... 2) Clean shop but not sterile... 3) Clean and easily visable tanks 4) Good quality fish with some oddballs or specialty fish for interest. Good luck with the new venture... Any help you need I am more than happy to go for a drive and spend the weekend in Sydney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 Another one I like to see but don't often find is tanks which are correctly labelled. I don't mind so much about scientific names, as long as the staff know them. But to see a tank labelled Electric blues when the tank contains some other fish is just sloppy. If the tank occupants change, update the writing on the tank with a new name and price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 I too like to see correctly labelled stock Good variety and quality, healthy fish plus all the extras that come with it at sensible pricing. A good display or two so that people can see adult size and colour of stock. Knowledgeable helpful staff that understand the arena of a retail business. And above all CUSTOMER SERVICE and all that entails . I am happy to travel far for all of the above - preferrably in one place. I have yet to find this store so maybe it could be you I wish you all the best in your endeavours . Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 As an 'experienced hobbiest' (not big headed here but as opposed to a newb or someone who wants a quick tank to appease the kids) things I look at are cleanliness quality/range of stock accuracy and quality of advice, (both given to me, AND in front of me). It always amazes me that staff will throw out absolute lies (possibly wild random guesses) rather than tell the customer they aren't sure and they will check. (Which leads to my next point) Have quality reference material handy!! Refer to it with customers who have queries. Keep copies of quality books behind the counter for perusing when someone has a genuine query. If it wasn't for seeing the books in advance I would never have dropped the coin on Konings books, not even on strong recommendations. Build relationships with hobbiests, remember that 'we' may not buy a few hundred bucks worth of glass on a whim, and we might buy most of our fish from auctions and each other, but we will be back for bulk foods and what-not if your prices are competitive. (And if you have quality stock we will probably expand our bloodlines regularly too ) buy quality stock from locals (where applicable) and demand the quality, put the pressure on people who want to supply you to do it right. Don't just buy a batch of rubbish fish because they are cheap, it makes me (probably other people like me) question the entire shop stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbeer Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 I suggest go to the following link and read the article "So you want to own a fish store" http://www.characin.com/carey/articles/index.html Good info there. For everyone else read the articel about business plans. HTH Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightexpress Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 i think quality of advice is most important.when i started this hobby my first point of contact was LFS around sydney,because i didn't know any better i believed what they said.after getting experience in the hobby,most of them just wanted my money.now i will not do business with those ones at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardukar Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 Yeah, definetly professional set up with correct labelling, (lombardoi not lombardi ) and be genuine and know your stuff. I went to the manly fish store a while ago to get some fish, and when i asked for a female the guy gave me a male... ofcourse i corrected him, so its not big deal. But just little things like that can alter someones opinion massively and makes it look unprofessional. But whilst being pro, also be very helpfull. The most important thing about owning a business is not what you sell, but how you sell it; and the main point is how you treat your customers. I make a point NOT to shop in places where i am treated like crap/ a newbie at this hobby. I would also suggest to really get the cichlid and other fish species community behind your store somehow. Such as membership benefits etc. or actually accept money for homebred fish (ofcourse of high quality) atleast at a cheap price (.50c per fry etc. which is basically giving them away). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 Here's a reply I did a while back on another forum for a guy just taking over an ordinary shop. Some will not apply to you, but you may get an idea of what hobbyists look for: Ok here is what I would have done with that shop: 1. Make it brighter. It looks like you are walking into a dank cave. Paint the walls a nice cream, light yellow or sky blue. Install halogens in the roof or flouros above every tank. Crossroads looks impressive when you walk in because it is well lit and neat. If you can do better than them AND have a good selection of cichlids, you are ahead by a mile. 2. Make a better filter system. from memory, most tanks didn't run off proper mini reefs. Do something similar to Crossroads. I'm always impressed with a sump that is neat and well looked after. 3. have the counter at the front of the shop to the left as you walk in, not way down the back, or at least on the side. If you can't do that, at least have line of sight to the door so you can greet people as they walk in from behind the counter. 4. Not sure how the racks will be set up, but I always thought the best way to set up fish would be a 3 level system with adults up top and juveniles / fry in the tanks directly below. 5. Have a 6x2x2 with a nice heritage stand set up in the shop somewhere as a display tank. Show people what they can do with a system you are selling as a package. 6. Have both Common names and Scientific names displayed on the picture cards as described in my last post. Make sure the locality is listed as well and not just "Aulonocara stuartgranti" or similar. If you don't know the locality, ask on ACE, here or Google it. If you can't determine the locality, DON'T SELL IT. If you want to be the shop where knowledgeable hobbyists will come to shop, don't shoot yourself in the foot for a few extra dollars that you might make on a peacock or zebra of undetermined origins. Either put them in a display tank never to be sold, or use them as feeders if you have tankbusters. 7. Buy as much stock from trusted local breeders as possible. Most people on this forum now have the neccessary knowledge to breed top quality fish and you will know the history of the fish in most cases. Support the hobbyists and they will support you. Plus you will most likely get the fish cheaper than from Bay etc. 8. Don't sell "gimmicky" tanks and accessories, such as the tiny tanks that allegedly house bettas or goldfish. By all means sell small tank packages, but include a decent sponge filter and a care sheet explaining the nitrogen cycle as part of the deal. In fact, make up the care sheet and include it with every tank or even every sale you make. You will be giving customers free advertising to take home and ensuring they don't kill their fish within a week, thus keeping them in the hobby and spending money in your shop. 9. Sell good quality stuff! Definitely stock Aquaclear filters and keep the price low. Most people know that you can get an Aquaclear 500 for around $100 if you shop around, yet you still see some shops trying to get $170 or $180 for them. An aquaclear 500 for between $100 and $120 is fair, and an Aquaclear 300 for $75 - $85 is a good guide. Also stock spare parts for the filters and pumps you sell. Always have spare impellors and shafts in the shop, as they are things people need in an emergency. If they can't get things like that when they desperately need them, they won't ask your shop first the next time. As for cheap brands that are good quality, I'd suggest Pro Aqua. I've been using their large pumps (10,000 litres per hour) and they are excellent. I also use their UV filters and have not had a problem (although as has been said by another member, the plastic fittings get brittle after time, so hopefully that will be rectified). 10. Sell good quality food, and sell it in bulk if required. People such as myself who go through a lot of food don't buy small containers. I buy 10kg bags of orca pellets or 2 kg lots of OSI. I'm happy to buy my bulk food locally if you make a small profit on what I know I can source it for elsewhere. I don't think anybody in Newcastle sells Hikari anymore, so there is an open market. Crossroads used to sell it but don't anymore. I now get mine through online stores. 11. Make a website and keep it updated. I'm happy to create one for you and update it monthly as long as you email me your price and stock list on time each month. Once again, I would do it for free (but might occaionally want cost price food or something wink.gif laugh.gif ) Don't underestimate the power of a website. I know that when I am looking for a product, I google it first and yellow pages it second. I'm sure I'm not the only one. 12. Put prices on your tanks and equipment. I HATE it when I'm browsing in a shop (any shop, not just aquariums) and there is no price on a box or item, then I have to find an employee and get them to find out the price for me. It's unprofessional and annoying for the customer. 13. Employ staff that know about fish, not sales techniques. Have a set of reference books available behind the counter so if a staff member doesn't know the answer to a question, they can look it up straight away. A staff member who is willing to find out info immediately looks much better than an idiot kid who say "I'm not sure" and leaves it at that, or "I'm not sure, the person who would know that is away today". If you want to employ young staff, fine, but start with some of the younger members here on this forum, who probably know more about fish from discussions here and on ACE than all the current staff in all the current Newcastle Aquariums combined (at least those shops who don't seem to know the internet exists anyway laugh.gif ) 14. If I ever see a blood parrot or flowerhorn in the shop, the shop will never be invited back to advertise on this forum. I probably didn't need to say that as the new owners should well know our stance on those fish by now. 15. Have an eftpos machine. The current shop does not have one, which has stopped me buying stuff there several times if I didn't have cash on me at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 I think above all honest and interested staff members. The shop i go to the most isnt the best shop for fish quality and types, but the staff members will put time aside to help me, even if im not buying something that day. Asfar as travelling to go to a fish shop, once a month or something i will travel to Bondi Junction to check out Aquapets because they tend to have obscure fish that not many stock. Having high quality standard fish is also something that puts my mind at ease. As far as tanks in the shop. I like logical set ups, so fish in sections of water types, I like display tanks that give you something to admire or aim towards. The amount of fish ive bought because ive seen them in displays is huge. Also a good display of plants is good as well. I love Auburns plant section, everything in groups of certain plants and well labelled. Good luck with the venture, i hope it all works well for you. AdamR Ps. If it goes ahead i live locally and am interested in working at a shop 1 or 2 days a week...Hint hint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scienceman Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 People skills. If you have everything else but dont have this everything else will fall in a heap (eventually). Good luck if you take it on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownfish Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 You guys are gonna laugh but my advice is, allocate a good amount of space to Goldfish. For some reason, people just love buying these fish. Numerous shop owners I have talked to have told me that half their custom comes from Goldfish. The money you make on the Goldfish will allow you to offer better stock at more reasonable prices on the other 'more interesting' fish you sell. Cheers Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyN Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Are you talkin about the one for sale on penshurst street chatswood??? Their tanks are pretty sloppy, you would have to develop your own goodwill, dont expect too much if u purchase that store.... although, it would be nice to have a store run by an enthusiast around the corner :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repz Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 yeh i agree goldfishes are common but some exotics such as ranchus lionheads are really nice i use to keep them, and i see the demand for them is huge if you find a really good supplier im sure u would make very very quick sales. you dont really want crowded tanks for exotic goldfish maybe feeders but not the pretty 1s lol what appeals to me about a fish store is a clean place, i like bigger aquariums for some reason they just look better with more variety of fish to look at. especially oddballs keep me going back just to look at them and drool a large display tank with quality fish would be good a nice aquascaped 2ft would also be cool planted so that the general community knows that it is possible to have different types of tank arrangements. and can endevour into lets say tank busters, discus planted tank, goldfish ect thats just my opinion have a few diff display tanks plus i hate it wen i see dead fish floating in the tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardukar Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Also, have some rockin' music in the background; not to loud, but loud enough to drown out the 'silence' i'm not a big fan of super quiet stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koiboi Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 things I look for: healthy fish clean environment logical displays good customer service - I respect a person who says that they dont know and will find out. good products and fish. lively environment (I hate the dark and dingy places) reasonable prices (will pay a premium if its worth it) I tend to look around at other stores but will always go back to the place I trust to buy my fish...even if its a bit of a drive. all the best... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Gun_Riff Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 if you have fact sheets in store have them online also then if you sell say a jag have a fact sheet their on how big they will get what they eat who they can be housed with then also have it online with links to other sites i.e sydneycichlid.com its alot of fiddling around but in my opinion it shows you have taken the time to do it will pay for its self in the end you could get people from here to make them about fish they keep and email them to you saving you time just set up a simple format and post it up then we can follow it so they are set out all the same ie scientific name common name size diet tankmates water etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkmuncan Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 BIIIIIG DISPLAY TANKS! that has adults of most if not all of the fish you stock. people like to see what they are buying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted August 22, 2005 Author Share Posted August 22, 2005 Hi Everyone... Thanks for the input... keep it coming... it's greatly appreciated and if I make the investment I will be certain to show gratitude the right way$. I will hold back on making any replies in here for a few days so that I can get a bigger picture, then summarise and wait for your guidance, if that's OK. I just want to do it the right way, first time around as it's not small-change and of course, doing it right for the hobby is a priority. My greatest thanks to all - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Things i would like to see in an LFS -Healthy fish -Wide range of live stock -Well priced live stock and equipment (Generic and More expensive brands) -Clearly labled names and price (Both scientific and common) -A website which is updated on a regular basis ( Even if its basic) As I have been to a few sites which don't go into great detail on tank packages and equipment they stock -Good business hours (Maybe stay open a little later on thursdays) -Reliable staff that know what they are talking about -High quality and good range of foods both live and dried -Oddballs -Less tanks devoted to goldfish ( I frequent a well known and highly visited store that have 6-8 tanks of goldfish and they sell only a few a week its getting to the point of him offering largish koi for $5) -Wide variety of well priced books -A store that discounts for number ( and advertises it) I think thats about all Have you decided if you are keeping both Fresh and salt water live stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardukar Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 In reply to the topic... I think owning any business these days is tough. There are plenty of fish stores in sydney; especially north of the bridge. To stay alive, you'll have to be better than the rest. You'll need an edge that makes running your business much most cost effectve (such as buying from local breeders) or supplying speciality fish (such as a wide range of bettas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akroyd Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I've had a few shops, and I think in order: Service, Quality, Range, Presentation,& Price. If you want to talk, or need contacts, call. Malcolm 07 3823 1866 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemst Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I agree with a lot of what has been said already but as a (relative) noob to the hobby I look for the following: - Take the dead fish out of the tank! - Suggested tankmates (compatible display fish) - staff who understand what I would like to do and who can give advice on what I shouldn't do...nothing too deep, just the simple stuff. - good beginner advice...if you set yourself apart and make it noob friendly -I'm sure you'd have repeat business...perhaps you could have defined suggested startup tanks and and "advancement" program depending on how the person develops in the hobby. It just seems like that if you have a bit of an idea then it is relatively easy to find info - but if you have no clue other than 'fish are cool' then it all seems like too much. Fish selection cheat sheets would be great (type of fish, food, equipment, decor) - potentially good onselling business as well...maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyN Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Its a pretty darn good position, and with the exeception of a couple of dodgy pet stores in chatswood westfield, you wouldnt have too much competition on your hands i dont think... Heck if you do go ahead with it, Ill gladly work for you and try to help you out!!!! You gotta keep discus mate!! And lots of them hehehe!!!! The shop has potential, its not too cramped, just get rid of that hell ugly boat with the goldfish, and the stock in the middle, put a huuuuuuuuge display tank with Discus, some nice catfish, or whatever floats your boat, the shop needs a paint, and some nice furniture... Check out fish culture in cremorne (military rd) or whatever and see how theirs is all set up, beautiful shop in my opinion!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fins Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 If you guys are talking about Penshurst St Chatswood, I think it's too small to keep the variety required to support the local goldfish/tetra community as well as the speciality enthusiasts. Unless you mainly sell livestock and have tanks down the middle as well. But that will probably decrease your sales on dry goods I'm certainly not an expert in running a LFS, but I feel that in this area of Chatswood, the market 'feels' like it's behind the rest of Sydney. There's never been a kick-arse kind of LFS around here. That's why guys like us end up driving to Auburn and Xtreme. BUT, I don't feel there's enough of us guys to support a kick-arse LFS in Chatswood. And to be honest, I don't think many people will visit from the southern or western suburbs on a regular basis, unless it had something to offer on a regular basis. Which brings me back to my point of the shop being too small. My guess is that the goldfish community like having the sunken treasure and multicolored gravel etc... the cichlid guy wants to see lots of cichlids. I don't know if the shop is big enough to support both markets. I don't know if the market is big enough to support the shop? If there was a shop like Auburn or Xtreme in Chatswood, I wonder how well it would go? Because this is what I would like to have. Sorry for my rambling, but I'm interested in this because it's in my neighborhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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