teflon Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I was thinking the other day and realised that common fish arent always easy to get a hold of. Take convicts for example they breed like no tomorrow but people always post WTB Convicts because their LFS dosent sell them. I also have the same problem as i must admit i do like convicts maybe one of the most underatted fish to date Has anybody else noticed this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardukar Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Yeah, most people only breed fish they can make money off or that 'look good'. Personally i'm in this hobby because i really enjoy the different behaviour each fish has. I've been trying to find some more lombardoi lately, but haven't had any success in my local area.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ged Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 As in all things our hobby/interest is influenced by what is fashionable. Some species that are popular and breed easily may make it difficult for breeders to sell or even give away the offspring. If you can't then you may make the decision not to keep that species any more. How many time have you heard people say "There were lots around five years ago". Availability will be always be influenced by demand. If demand is great people will breed them but if it is not then the numbers available will drop off. LFS are even more at the mercy of demand. They will not stock them if they can't sell them. I agree that some species that we take for granted as common are not always available. In regards to Archocentrachus nigrofasciatus (Convicts) I believe that it is because they are such prolific breeders that people want them. There has been just as many FS and Free ads placed in the Classifieds. PS. Sardukar apply for access to the classifieds. It will help your search for M. lombardoi. See the link. Classifieds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 I keep and breed what I love, hence the Tropheus that fill my tanks. I have my favourite Malawans as well and continue to breed many variants that have lost popularity I've been trying to find some more lombardoi lately, but haven't had any success I love my lombardoi and have a beautiful colony that keeps me entertained. Their colours are striking and is reflected in their fry. I have fry from 3cm upwards to 5-6cms if you are interested $1 a cm. There is not much call for them these days Even though I am in Wollongong I travel up to Sydney a fair bit so depends it you want them and if you would be willing to meet half way. Anyway let me know . Cheers Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Adam, I agree with the concept but I disagree with the example. Most people who post WTB: Convicts, know they can pick them up in shops, but they want A: larger, breeding ready fish and B: cheaper/free fish. Or they simply haven't looked, but they have read that convicts produce cheap feeders and want some with a minimum of effort. I understand not EVERY shop will stock them, but I seriously doubt many people would be further away than 25 minutes from a shop which stocks convicts. However, for people here, it seems to become habit to try here first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F2Black Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Convicts are very cool, and usually available at my LFS - but they're also usually either way too small, or overpriced there. So I guess I agree with Ducky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vieja Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I love my lombardoi and have a beautiful colony that keeps me entertained. Their colours are striking and is reflected in their fry. I have fry from 3cm upwards to 5-6cms if you are interested $1 a cm. There is not much call for them these days Even though I am in Wollongong I travel up to Sydney a fair bit so depends it you want them and if you would be willing to meet half way. Anyway let me know . amazing, i posted something very similar not long back and lasted half an hour b4 a moderator 'moderated' me about trying to sell fish in the forum, not the classifieds... (i too was just trying to help someone looking for a certain breed) no offence Chipimbi, i am just trying to figure out what constitutes a breach of the rules and what doesn't on this site... seems sometimes they are one and the same.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 Please stay on topic this thread was started to see peoples opinions not a chance to let members have a war. Please PM the mods about your concern and keep on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vieja Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Please stay on topic this thread was started to see peoples opinions not a chance to let members have a war. Please PM the mods about your concern and keep on topic ← no war... simple amazement.... thanks for the tip though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 vieja - it depends on the mod on the day I guess, they're only human but I agree sometimes things are a little inconsistant. Back on topic - I've noticed this too problem too Teflon. I got my male convicts (presumably brothers) from a LFS ($2 each) where they were handed in by a hobbiest. They had great contrasting colour, textbook finnage and shape and have since grown to be quite nice specimens. I bought two "sisters" from a different source ($5 each) to breed with the brothers, who again had really great contrasting black & grey bands with the metallic pink/orange from their belly right through to their dorsal fin. All of them have nice trailing fins reaching past their tails quite noticably. The LFS where I got the girls is the only one in my area with decent looking convicts - the other stores usually only have washed out specimins with deformed looking heads, females with barely any colour - or they stock none at all. I agree - they are an extremely underrated fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardukar Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 eeek, well i just went to my local fish store (in Manly Vale) to buy a 200W heater for my new tank and they were selling a 6 bar frontosa (about 3cm) for $66 is that like...incredibly over priced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mianos Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I've seen 3cm 6 bars often at about about $35 at a well known shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 eeek, well i just went to my local fish store (in Manly Vale) to buy a 200W heater for my new tank and they were selling a 6 bar frontosa (about 3cm) for $66 is that like...incredibly over priced? ← Yeah thats abit bodge, BTW did you get your heater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 eeek, well i just went to my local fish store (in Manly Vale) to buy a 200W heater for my new tank and they were selling a 6 bar frontosa (about 3cm) for $66 is that like...incredibly over priced? ← No, that's the price the shop would have to sell them at if they bought them thru one of the major wholesalers in Aust. You forget that the LFS is a bussiness and has to make a profit, and pay taxes. Breeder sells to wholesaler at $15ea, wholesaler puts a markup... $30ea +GST+Freight. Shop buys them... cost $35-$38ea..... and there you go, retail price goes to $66, and that's already a risky margin for livestock. Lose one, and u have to sell 2 to break even. One of the reasons why some of the LFS don't buy direct from local breeders could be that when the taxman comes around for an audit, there are no tax receipts and the bookwork can be a big mess. The other reason why u don't see more of the "common" cichlids in shops is because they are slow movers and keeping them in the shop involves a fixed cost (feeding, housing, wages, power, water etc), which would be better spent on selling fish and fish with better returns. Example, even if a Convict cichlid was GIVEN FREE to a shop (which happens quite often!), the fixed cost of housing a fish on average say is $2 for the duration they stay unsold in the shop fish tank (and $2 is a very low number already!). So, from a bussiness point of view, you know that if you overprice a convict cichlid, they would not sell and u would possibly be ridiculed, in a forum such as this. So if they price the FREE CONVICT at $2ea, they are technically making nothing on the fish and that fish is really a space waster. The short and the long is that, if you are a smart LFS, you're better off selling clown loaches than say a convict cichlid. Many forget that the LFS is a BUSSINESS and they need to do what they need to do to stay in bussiness. They're not a community service or charity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsherman Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 So Kev, if you were to offer a shop an amount of fry along with receipts of the purchase, do you think then that shops would purchase more fry from local breeders if they all decided to add receipts with their sales? I know if you are making a profit of less than $50,000 a year on a hobby, then you dont need an abn as a hobbiest, so in effect the receipts would be legal. Im just curious if the shops would look at you in a different light if you could offer them legitemate receipts???? Cheers, Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Maybe, possibly..... , but what about a credit back service or a 48hour guarantee? Shops have also bought from certain people in the hobby, and then a large number of the fish die in large numbers in a very short period of time because of very different water parameters. With the large wholesalers whom they do regular bussiness with, they may be credited should they have problems with fish purchases. So Kev, if you were to offer a shop an amount of fry along with receipts of the purchase, do you think then that shops would purchase more fry from local breeders if they all decided to add receipts with their sales? I know if you are making a profit of less than $50,000 a year on a hobby, then you dont need an abn as a hobbiest, so in effect the receipts would be legal. Im just curious if the shops would look at you in a different light if you could offer them legitemate receipts???? Cheers, Alan. ← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 Breeder sells to wholesaler at $15ea, wholesaler puts a markup... $30ea +GST+Freight. Shop buys them... cost $35-$38ea..... and there you go, retail price goes to $66, and that's already a risky margin for livestock. Lose one, and u have to sell 2 to break even. ← I have never heard of a shop buying a 6 bar for anywhere near $35 "cost" price. Im sure they get them cheaper then some of us do. Why would and LFS owner pay freight and get them from another state when they could be getting them from a local breeder and cutting out the charge of freight? It just dosent make sense to me. The other reason why u don't see more of the "common" cichlids in shops is because they are slow movers and keeping them in the shop involves a fixed cost (feeding, housing, wages, power, water etc), which would be better spent on selling fish and fish with better returns. Example, even if a Convict cichlid was GIVEN FREE to a shop (which happens quite often!), the fixed cost of housing a fish on average say is $2 for the duration they stay unsold in the shop fish tank (and $2 is a very low number already!). So, from a bussiness point of view, you know that if you overprice a convict cichlid, they would not sell and u would possibly be ridiculed, in a forum such as this. So if they price the FREE CONVICT at $2ea, they are technically making nothing on the fish and that fish is really a space waster. The short and the long is that, if you are a smart LFS, you're better off selling clown loaches than say a convict cichlid. :wink: ← Why accept them then? Nobody is making you take the fish And an LFS should be concerned about what is in demand and not just selling fish he thinks he can make a nice mark-up on Many forget that the LFS is a BUSSINESS and they need to do what they need to do to stay in bussiness. :wink: They're not a community service or charity. :tongue: ← High prices is why some dont stay in business not the other way around. Do somebody a good service and they will tell 5 people, Do someone a bad service and they will tell 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I am with Aline I breed what I like or is a challange. As it happens I like yellows and BN (close to my favourite fish) and the LFS love them. But at the same time the major LFS in Canberra won't take most fish including one of my favourites Saulosi because they are "too aggressive" . Yet they have those really agro M. chipoke M. aurastus (spelling???). I cannot figure it out. But to the non cichlid person walking into the LFS they just look another yellow active fish and they already have a yellow fish in their tank. If we have trouble off loading them at $2-$3 each how are they going to at $20 each. The LFS has heaps of overheads so a 400% markup while unreasonable to me I think can be justified. I do get annoyed (like I did the other day) when someone gives a bad mix of cichlids for a sale. My first experience buying cichlids on LFS recommendation was disasterous with leleupi, E yellows, moorii, brichardi, tangerine zebras, Lombardoi, red empress and electric blue in a standard 4' tank (some $200+). Surprising enough I was back at the lfs 6 weeks later buying another 8 fish after the zebra, lombardoi, leleupi had finished off the passive fish. Anyway I don't buy fish from shops or rarely even Canberra unless I know the breeder, I head to Sydney (mainly the NSWSC) to get my stock. I like to know the source of my fish so I can try and get the best quality fish I can to build my colonies, even though it takes a heap of time. It is at times frustrating but I guess that is also part of the fun and worthit in the long run. I may have drifted in and out of the topic but I have not had a lot of sleep cheers Rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin4 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Kev Koi, makes a lot of sense, Shops have overheads, labour,etc etc, I once owed a pet shop, cost is high add labour and lose of live stock and its a cut price game, livestock means you must lose some. Lets be up front we Do go for a bargin online.Hey run your car to pickup and count the cost???. But at the end of the day we do it because cause we love the hobby, Well i do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citypainter Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I know if you are making a profit of less than $50,000 a year on a hobby, then you dont need an abn as a hobbiest, so in effect the receipts would be legal. Im just curious if the shops would look at you in a different light if you could offer them legitemate receipts???? I don't think it is a profit of 50k, rather you only have to turnover 50k and also you still need an ABN. If you turnover more than 50K a year then you must be registered for gst which means accruing , (Collecting and paying ) GST on behalf of the government. They have big overheads, staff need pay shops trade long hours, weekends drw higher wages, fish tanks need constant maintenece. I hope that makes sence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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