BlakeyBoyR Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Have you seen these little blokes before? We got them in at work the other day and I had never seen them before. Are they new to the scene? Im assuming it is just a genetic trait bred into them over time right? Theyre groovy looking little fish. Is anyone keeping them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Long fin rams.... come out of Asia. Well, majority of the rams coming out of SEA are long fins or have extended fins. Personally, don't like them. And errm, touchy little things... kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Stop the press - for once (or it might be twice now) Kevin and I agree. These are a line bred form from Asia. Avoid like the plague. Think normal inbred, hard to keep ram x 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Yep agree 110% these are nasty little critters to keep. They usually fetch a high price, are exceedingly sensitve to both water and temp changes. They have a high deformity rate from fry and are basically a waste of time and money. When I was in Bangkok last year they had these as 'dyed' fish, so they had red rams, yellow rams, green rams, purple rams and black rams as well as the standard blue and gold. I would encourage whoever ordered them, not to do it again! Any chance you can reveal what you are selling them for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerospel Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hey guys, Do you guys know if the gold rams are as hard to keep? Interested in getting some but if they are as hard as the blue rams I will have to give them a miss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 @ Dave..... If you think the blue rams are hard to keep, I don't see why the golds would be any easier. They're essentially the same fish. Gold rams are just a line bred variant of the blue ones (not genetically any different). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerospel Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Ah thats a shame to hear But Ive read that there are some discus strains that are hardier than other strains but I cant remember where I read this...I think they were the pigeon bloods? so I thought hmm maybe the rams are like this too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Unfortunately I've found the gold rams to be even harder to keep than the blues The longest I have heard of someone keeping them for is about 12 months. merjo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 I've got 2 pairs of gold rams, and although they are tempremental to enviromental changes, I don't find them much different to keep than blue rams, though my blue's are more frequent and successful breaders. Whenever I have gold's for sale they go like hot cakes and most are success stories out of my tanks - I have heard of some not so great stories, but these are usually fish that go into non-established tanks. If you are looking to getting some, the best thing to look for is colour, fin shape, eye positioning and size. Also I have found that having java fern in their tanks prior to adding the fish seems to enhance their survival rate. Be very carefull when buying them from LFS's. I'm sure there are some shops that sell great quality fish, but the gold's I have seen in my local shops in recent years have been far from quality stock! Good luck if you do plan to get into them, as far I am concerned its all about strong good quality fish, a well cycled tank and the right food and plant mix. Once you have your tank up and going they are GREAT little fish to watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Hi Ram folk - Here's a list of species infinitely preferably to Rams (for a variety of reasons) to all but very experienced dwarf hobbyists. -Bolivian rams -All Laetacara species (curviceps, dorsigera, sp 'Hump head' etc) -Nanacara anomala -Pelvicachromis species (pulcher, subocellatus, taeniatus, sacrimontis (sp?) etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbeer Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Awwww, c'mon Dave. Rams are not that bad, IF you get good quality stock. I have had Rams keel over and die in a week (impulse buy of fish I wasn't 100% confident with), and I have had Rams breed within a day of being added to a tank and thrive. Difference is stock quality, and good quality stock is getting easier to get all the time. And to be completely honest I am not 1/2 the aquarist that some others are on this site, and definitely not a very experieced dwarf hobbyist. Would someone with a good strain of Rams please give Dave some so he will leave the poor buggers alone . Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyme Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 One of the major fish wholesalers has gold Rams at present which are locally bred and very nice. Try Auburn Aquarium. Craig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 lol @ Steve. I think for most beginners this is a fish to avoid . I completely agree good stock are "relatively" hardy. But finding such stock can be more than a bit of a gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I agree with Steve.... Next time I have some fry available I will make a delivery to Dave, maybe then we can convince him that they aren't all doom and gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanceswithDingoes Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 I have found the German bred lines of both blue and gold rams to be far more hardier than their Asian counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish breeder head Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Hi everyone, I'm new and hope this works I've been breeding all types of rams for about 12 years. In my experience German Rams are definitely tougher than asian rams. Locally bred German rams are tougher again, Gold Rams are a weaker strain than the blue, particularly as juveniles. Long tails: When I out-breed with these fish I can only hope to get one spawn before the imported specimen dies. The young however are as tough as a regular ram. Rams can not stand very acid water (particularly juveniles) which causes their fins to cloud over this results, usually in a 90% death rate, any quick PH descent, permanently weakens adult fish. Unfortunately this often happens in the bag when importing fish. These fish seldom live longer than six months. I usually house my rams in 8'x2'x2' tanks, 700 fish per tank. In years gone by I would lose every fish, within a short period of time after a sudden PH drop. I now place coral rubble and a small amount of carbon in each tank to prevent this, the hard water seems to have no effect on the fish at all. Temperature fluctuation seems to have no negative effect. They will die from stress if picked on by other fish, or quite often it's mate, usually the female if only one pair of rams are kept. Don't feed rams live food or frozen blood-worms. Feed them flake, soaked pellets, frozen or newly hatched brine shrimp. I do a 50% water change every three days and usually house between 2000 and 4000 juveniles and adults and its a rare day indeed that one dies. Hope this helps Rams: won't die won't stop breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmilfish Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Hi , just bought some young blue rams from lams .look to be very nice fish . jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish frenzy2005 Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 hi all, i currently have a pair of blue rams and was wondering what the best ratio to keep them is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanceswithDingoes Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Ive just bought a couple of rams labelled "gold rams" good chunky fish, but a little too chunky, they have too much blue to be the gold strain but they are growing quite round in their body (almost like discus, and no they havent got bloat as they are quite slender on the sides) The fish are healthy and have quite an appetite, water params are ph7.4 and negligible gh. Could these be 'balloon rams?' if so is the life expectency is very long, female is cherry red and has a belly full of eggs, ovipositor is down as we speak but they aren't cleaning a site as yet. ps just found a piccy and I believe they are 'balloon rams' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Hi DWD, I would say that you do have what is called a 'balloon ram' definately not a gold ram! I saw these fish in a LFS some months ago and have spent quite some time researching them. From what I can find out, they are a hybrid species, a dwarfed version of an already dwarf species, it is reported that they often produce infertile eggs and are difficult to keep - most reports are less than a year survival. I found the following site that has some photos and vids about them but not much info Balloon Rams Apparently there a quite a few 'balloon' species of common fish such as the gourami, arowana and convict. They are HUGE in America at the moment, everyone wants some, but they are then disappointed when they die 6 months later and produce lots of infertile batches. Apparently they were first bred in asia not all that long ago! Anyways good luck and I hope you have some luck with them - though thats not to say that I'm not upset that we keep creating hybrid species selling them off as something they're not Cheers Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzacam Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Yeah, I believe Balloon rams are hybrids, But non the less, they have quite the personalities, and are an awesome little fish. I had 2, but recently lost them (And every other fish in the tank) But i didn't find keeping them hard at all. But mine never quite looked as good as those ones on the site! I want some of them ones, lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanceswithDingoes Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Hoges, Mezzacam, You keep calling balloon rams 'hybrids' hybridised with what? Discus? I think the work hybrid in this hobby is becoming like ADHD in the child psychology world, cant think of what it is, give it that label. I do believe that were line bred for their short round bodies, as for their fragility only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Okay before you have a go at my message (I don't appreciate being laughed at, especially after I spent the time going back through what I had read to provide you with that information!) I have read quite a few articles that point to them being a hybrid between a bolivan butterfly and a blue ram with some line breeding for the small stature. There was another article that thought they may have some african butterfly. And another which has some pretty concrete stats, states that it was originially an experiment between angel fish and rams! Basically though, no one seems to have a concrete understanding of what their breeding is. In future I will remember not to share my hours of research with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzacam Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Yes, I have read various statements as well. So who knows, besides the person who actually produced the fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanceswithDingoes Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Not wanting to poo-poo your 'hours of research', can you please provide me with any links that indicate these fish are hybrids as all I have found indicate they are line bred. I doubt a fish as distant as Analochromis thomasi (African Butterfly) could cross with a Microgeophagus and crossing a bolivian ram would give you a longer larger fish not the small compact 'runt' that the balloon ram is. I'm not saying you're wrong but I get a little tired of people yelling 'hybrid' without citing any clear evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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