gingerbeer Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 I am inclined to think that the balloon rams and long fin rams are line bred from mutations. I don't think these mutations are healthy, or particularly like them (OK I hate them). It is feasable as Hoges said that they were crossed with bolivian rams and then bred back for size/shape. This concept has been done with many other fish. (swords/platys, marble peacocks, etc) Personaly i do think that this is more doubtful as shape is not tht way, and colour is too "ramish" Thomasi cross I agree just doesn't sound possible. There was a lot of discussion of this fish on Apistogramma.com at one stage. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus13 Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Long finned Rams & Balloon Rams are hybrids, and IMO should be avoided at all costs. If we are to keep our stocks at a good quality level we should stick with the real deal, and leave the fad styles so as stores dont stock them. (i.e. you dont stock what you cant sell) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanceswithDingoes Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Evidence people, not emotion, evidence.......Im not their biggest fan either but theres a difference between a mutation and a hybrid, and if its a hybrid I will cull them but I want proof, not passionate rantings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 DWD, I'll start by confirming that they are NOT a hybrid. (Hybrid what with?) 2ndly, I think there's too much BS going around posted on forums/net articles which are based on sheer ignorance, perpetuating myths and written by people who really are in no position to write anything. I was just down in one of the largest cichlid farms in Johor, Malaysia, the last few days and I will tell you straight up that these "balloon rams" and balloon whatever fish are produced from perfectly normal looking, fertile parents. The "Balloon" fad is catching on in Asia (and seems to be quite marketable internationally as well), it started with baloon mollies, now there are baloon tropheus, koi, electric yellows, you-name-it for sale. The parent stock is normal and capable of producing "normal" fry.... make no mistake, no "line-breeding" is taking place, but "Balloon" seems to sell better, and at higher prices. As to how they are doing this, and what is being used, it is controversial (very controversial) and I am not at liberty to say or discuss. Make no mistake, I do not condone this practice. Just need to clear this issue up.... Not every odd looking fish is a hybrid people!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanceswithDingoes Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Thanks for clearing that up Kev, I'll keep these two for their natural days and I wont buy any more 'odd' looking fish (except goby cichlids) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod54 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 What do they do Kev.....dose the fry with chemicals to deform their spines? Must be something cheap and nasty if the parents are normal!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanceswithDingoes Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 More than likely raising many fry in small tanks to restrict growth/stunt them, not my cup of tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbeer Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I'm suprised a that. I have read on the net of these balloon rams breeding true (with pictures of parents and young). This was by a passionate supported of balloon rams on apistogramma.com. They have changed there board and I can't find the old discussions. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 I was going to reply, with evidence, but decided it wasn't worth the effort! Keep whatever excites you, believe whatever you feel the need to! Maybe keep the insults to yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stotto Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 pfffftt........ Keep what you want to keep and what apeals to you. I have a couple of gold ballon rams and a blue ballon ram and i love them to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanceswithDingoes Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Maybe keep the insults to yourself! dry.gif Insults, what insults, I want evidence as to what insults Lighten up Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I was more so referring to kevkoi's remark! Anyways if you want some evidence I have a lovely article about their historical genetics if it interests you... I'll chuck it through the photocopier at work one day. I only just got the mag, and whilst what Kev says is somewhat true in terms of recent genetics, they have a history a mile long, where the original balloon ram (very different to the one you have purchased) was a hybrid species, but was so prone to illness and disease that they kept trying until they got the current test tube model! But... some of the original genetics still exist in today's model! Anyways... hope you enjoy you odd looking fish! I'm going to stick to the original blue rams!!! And... what's the deal with all this first name business.... I liked the anominity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Was at one of the largest South East Asian fish exporter's premises today.... saw a few more "balloon" species. Balloon koi Balloon convict Balloon Apistogramma hongsloi <----- what are they thinking?! Balloon Neolamprologus brichardi Balloon Tropheus duboisi .... and of course the Balloon ram. (Almost like the best seller and regular staple export now... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod54 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Given they are able to repeat the balloon deformity in so many species it would seem to be something other than cross-breeding? Is it chemically induced ? Why the mystery? No doubt they will sell millions to uninformed people to put in fish bowls....Mine you...to be fair....one of the fish I ever purchased to go in a community tank with creek caught swordtails were Oscars !!! Does this signal at trend where Governments are banning importation of new species and this will allow commercial interests an opportunity to profit by genetically modifying the legal species to satisfy that need to "have something NEW!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanceswithDingoes Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Anyways good luck and I hope you have some luck with them - though thats not to say that I'm not upset that we keep creating hybrid species selling them off as something they're not sad.gif dntknw.gif dntknw.gif dntknw.gif Cheers Laura I believe it was you who introduced the first name thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 oops What ever was I thinking??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbeer Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 I found the link I was talking about to a guy who claims to be breeding balloon rams true. http://www.geocities.com/yutaka_loo/index.html Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Thats the same link that I posted 2 pages back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbeer Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 oops, thats what comes form not reading the entire thread. Sorry Hoges, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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