matrix mini reef

[fishie4me]

hi guys, i was wondering if it would work if i make a sump out of a 3 footer using matrix media style to filter 2 of 4x2x2 tanks and maybe an extra 2 standard 4 foot in the future.

here is a picture of the sump that i am going to make, any suggestions or tips would be really appreiciated.

[teejaybee]

I would recommend a revolving spray bar type setup that drips onto a decent sponge ontop of your first media. Remember, the bacteria you are trying to get going don't like big blobs of craP, but rather like a "clean", oxygenated water supply.

I'd recommend bio balls and lava rock for your medium. I use lava rock in all of mine, and don't use bio balls. Seems to work better, for my setup/fish/water anyway.

Good luck. Sumps are good.

(clean = no crap you can see)

[fishie4me]

yeh i just asked a couple of people over the phone and they too recomend the spinning arms type. however i am going to make a spray bar instead.

first the water will go out of the spray bar then then onto a filter pad, after that is a layer of cotton wool and lastly, the biobal before they go down and gets pumped back into the tank.

[Josh]

It looks like the dividers arent quite right. IMHO the divider between the bio balls and media 2 should be off the bottom of the sump. The water then should go up and over a divider to the second compartment with media.

Also I reckon the bio balls should be off the bottom of the sump so that any stuff that get through your first lot of filteration can settle there

some like this

I dont know it would work but it seems a little simpler.

[teejaybee]

yeh i just asked a couple of people over the phone and they too recomend the spinning arms type. however i am going to make a spray bar instead.

Just make sure it gets water flowing through all of your media. Stale spots = innefficient filtration. Better to do it properly the first time. The sponge and wool should help get an even spread over your first media, so it may work fine. We have one here that just dumps out ontop of the lava rock and even it does a better job than any of our fluval/canister/hanging filters.

http://www.aks.net.au/spinning_arms.html

Dunno how expensive they are.

[fishie4me]

teejaybee,

yeh the spining arms can get expensive, can cost from $45-70 each.

so therefore i a have decided to go with the spray bar which is easy to make and more cheaper and does the same job.

little swimmer,

how about this setup?

what do you think about this one? the shells are added to buffer the PH?

another question though is that the space where the shells are place, should i add more like filter media like cotton wool? or is the filter pad and cotton wool at the top sufficient.?

andone else can give hints and tips on what i am going to build?

[tykita]

can someone correct me if i'm wrong but i was told that bio balls are useless under water cause they were specifically designed for anearobic bacteria and a matrix system which i actually use myself needs the matrix rock or similar type.

regards

chris

[fishie4me]

there you go, another error.

by looking at the design of the sump, the bio balls or half of it will be sitting underwater, so what substitute is good for bioballs which will be sittin both under and on top of water?

[Josh]

I dont think it hurts to have some of the bio balls under water. I dont think I have ever seen a sump that has the balls completely above water

[fishie4me]

maybe i will try abit of both? bio balls and matrix rock?

[emp1re]

Chris: As long as there are water circulation,

there is alway a supply of oxygen.

[CThompson]

There are advantages and disadvantages with the different types of biological media you select to use and in the way you set it up.

The greatest advantage bio balls have over other forms of bio media is that they in fact increase the oxygen content in the water, were as ALL other forms of bio media actually strip it out. I was once told by a very knowledgeable person that a good air stone will increase the water’s oxygen content by 30%, where as a properly set up bio ball chamber will increase the water’s oxygen content by 300%. While I’m sure there is a bit of exaggeration in there, I think it makes it point.

If you are going to use bio balls as your biological media, then you must organise it at the least to be above water level when the tank is powered, other wise you may as well use another type such as matrix or efisubstate.

It would be best if the bio ball chamber sits above the water level even when the power is off, as their other key advantage point is that provided they stay moist when water is not flowing through them, the bacteria will not die (as they still have access to oxygen). Other forms of biological media once deprived of their water flow will eventually suffocate.

I noticed also fishie4me that your second drawing showing the yellow section with the “shells” has the middle partition so high as to cause the water level to be fully above the bio balls. You water level on the bio ball side of the sump will be dictated by the hight of this wall. What you would be better doing is causing this middle patrician to be much closer to the bottom, say 4-5cm from the bottom. You will still get plenty of water flow, but the height will be lower, causing the over all water level in the sump to drop. Which will also increase your sump's water capacity during a power stoppages (make sure your sump is big enough to fully contain all the water that flows out of the tank when the power is off).

Instead of putting shells in here, why don’t you put in Matrix (in addition to the bio balls), and spread you shells over the sump’s bottom under the bio ball chamber.

I would also suggest using a better media to buffer you water than shells, such as coral sand (which has become expensive) or crushed limestone sand available from Phil Fairall at Limestone Quarries Australia on (02) 9544-7939 or mobile 0419 -047777. $2.00 per Kg or $1.50 per kg for 200 kg.

Emp1re

As long as there are water circulation, there is alway a supply of oxygen

This is true, but while the oxygen is supplied underwater, the oxygen content will be limited by what is available in the water. Bio balls situated above the water level will never run out of oxygen, wether the water is flowing through them or not.

Craig

[BlakeyBoyR]

I dont know if I read what someone said correctly but if they said that completely submerged bioballs dont filter properly I must say I find that hard to believe. Think of a canister filter, regardless of brand. The filter media is submerged is it not? And it still works a treat. I may be missing the point, Im doped up to the eyeballs on medication at the moment so if Im wrong someone feel free to correct me

[oracle]

but if they said that completely submerged bioballs dont filter properly I must say I find that hard to believe. Think of a canister filter, regardless of brand. The filter media is submerged is it not? And it still works a treat.

Most canister filters don't use bioballs. Rather they tend to use ceramic noodles or efi substrat.

[fishie4me]

thanks for the response guys.

Cthompson,

yeh i realised that the height of the glass that you are talking about, the drawing is only a rough one.

and will take your advice on using matrix rock where the shell is in the second picture.

[nannat]

along with the idea of what craig said regarding the height of the wall from the bottom.this wall dictates the permanent height of the water below the bio ball shelf.the higher the wall the more water under the shelf at all times.[or water within the bioballs]

well picked up too craig.

i usually fill my sump over the pump,to a level of the bottom bio balls.and after evaporation [and fish swapping with water with them] i consider the sump empty and refill it after the water level being the top of the pump casing.i make this wall on my sumps only as high as the top of pump housing which gives more distance from wall height/pump submerged level to the bottom layer of bioballs being wet than a tall wall will.

if you can understand this you will realise a shorter wall makes the amount of water lost out of the system between required refills to be more than than using a tall wall.

i believe the wall is mainly to sump or contain the veryfine gunk to below the matrix only.and keep it from the pump recirculating it.i use a sponge wall before the next chamber to catch anything which doesnt stick under the bioballs,and this mustnt be forgotten when cleaning the filter media.

i suppose the lower wall requires use of the sponge in the sump,but it sure saves me trips to my aged-water drum with a lot less sump filter top-ups.

also if you put coral chips in the sump up until the height of the top of the pump[or sump wall],it wouldnt affect the frequency of required water changes.but i wouldnt put it in the chamber below the balls.too mucky to clean out.i like to pump that chamber with a mini powerhead and garden hose.[dont drink from the gardenhose at my place ,EVER!]

[CThompson]

BlakeyBoyR

Yes mate, you have missed the point.

As oracle mentioned, you do not use bio balls in a canister. That doesn’t mean you can't put them in, just that you are making a choice from erroneous knowledge.

When comparing “apples with apples” bio balls will not have as much surface area as other forms of biological media (such as Matrix or efisubstate). They still have heaps, but their disadvantage of lesser surface area (which can be made up for by puting a greater number of media into service) is greatly outweighed by their ability to put oxygen into the water (which they can’t do if submerged), rather than reduce it (as I think I mentioned above). Bio balls are also fairly big (I know Dupla have a smaller one) in comparison to Matrix etc, and in addition have large vacant spaces between their construction, and when they sholder against each other. If you have a canister filter, you should not use bio balls, as there are MUCH better choices to be made.

Craig

[parkesg]

Hey,

Just a point about the second diagram, I beleive you shouldn`t put filter wool over the bioballs, as it cuts down the the amount of oxygen to the balls and hence reduces the maximium amount of bacteria that can colonise your media.

I have recently sent up two big sump filters one spinning arm with bioballs and another a similiar system to the one in your first diagram. Both are doing their job and so far no complaints. If you want to come and have a look to get some ideas you are more than welcome. I am in Lidcombe which is only 15mins from you.

Grant

[CThompson]

Parkesq

Filter wool on top will reduce the amount of oxygen, but if the bio ball chamber is open at the bottom, air will come in there, probably assisted by the falling water moving the air about.

You can increase the amount of air in there by adding an airline hose into the bio balls.

So it probably will be a trade off, with the bio balls getting a bit dirtier not having that piece of filter wool on top of them, and the oxygen they may loose with the filter wool restricting the air flow through them.

Craig

[parkesg]

Hey,

Wouldn`t you have a pre filter to catch all the solid particles before they hit your bioballs??, you aren`t really supposed to have to clean bioball style sumps. That way you take out all the solids and the bioballs can work 100% effectivley rather than being restricted and having filter wool over them.

Grant

[fishie4me]

hi guys,

after reading all the replies, IMO having the extra piece of cotton wool over the biomat would help because the reason that bio balls arent spose to get dirty then wouldnt all the waste have to be cleaned and captured before it gets to the bio balls? i know it kinda of restricts the air flow but then one of the recomendations of putting the airline into the bioball chambers will befine and i dont mind doing that.

thanks and keep'em coming.

[BlakeyBoyR]

I myself dont put bioballs in canister, as I dont even own a canister filter. However I can name 2 or 3 major brands that do indeed include bioballs in their filter media when you buy the filter. Thats all I meant

[trofius]

in my sump i have the water from the tanks flowing to a refugium first, a bit of gunk stays in the bottom here but can easily be syphoned out every few months. My heaters also fit nicely in here. from here the water flows over a glass partition and onto a peice of drilled perspex which evenly distributes the water, which then flows down through some dacron type filter wool, also on a drilled shelf. then there is a space of about 5cm then bioballs which are above the water and then gutter guard which is submerged. under the guter guard there is some course coral ruble. the water flows through this then up over a partition down through some sponge, and under the next partition to the pump.