graceless Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 hey guys, i've lost fish over this week. and i don't know why. they are in a 4 X 14 X 18 current occupants: 2 X holding peacock females 1 X non-holding female peacock 1 X brownae pai 3 X bristlenoses 2 X small perspicax 16 X fry in the last week i've lost 1 male peacock (to a fight i think), 1 female peacock, 4 X acei, and one of the perspicax looks like it's gonna die. they alll look like they are puffing too. i don't know what is wrong. there's heaps of airation, and the water parameters are as follows: temp - 26 degrees pH - 7.6 Ammonia - 0 ppm Nitrite - 0 ppm Nitrate - 20ppm Any suggestions? should i get them all out til i work out what's wrong? Thanks Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katanaone Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 i hope you meant 4ft x 14inches x 18 inches(standard 4ft tank) only kiddn we knew what ya meant i'm just up past my bedtime! i don't know what the rest would do but i would relocate them and strip the tank down, do a scrub down (bleach, potassium permanganate or another alternative optional), leave it all in the sun for a week (including filters...everything) and start from scratch. sorry to be the bearer of bad news cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graceless Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 i hope you meant 4ft x 14inches x 18 inches(standard 4ft tank) only kiddn we knew what ya meant i'm just up past my bedtime! i don't know what the rest would do but i would relocate them and strip the tank down, do a scrub down (bleach, potassium permanganate or another alternative optional), leave it all in the sun for a week (including filters...everything) and start from scratch. sorry to be the bearer of bad news cheers i think the same thing. i wish i didn't have to, but i am not gonna loose more fish! Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katanaone Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 i know what ya mean we get caught between a big clean up job(laziness and procrastination) and losing our loved pets i just wish that i could have given you better news cheers by the way sorry for can you pm me your msn contact again i was a bit busy with exams last time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckmeister Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hi Grace, It may be gill fluke. This problem causes fish to gasp then eventually die. Stripping a tank and washing it out should be a last resort IMO and doesn't really fix the sick fish. I think praziquantil treats gill fluke. I'm a bit tired ATM and I may be wrong but in anycase, I'd talk to your LFS and get some advice and treat accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graceless Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 i have bactonex here now. should i do a dose of that? Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Grace I agree with Chuck...try the fluke and wormer first. Bactonex (I assume from the name) will not help gill fluke. merjo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graceless Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 Grace I agree with Chuck...try the fluke and wormer first. Bactonex (I assume from the name) will not help gill fluke. merjo ok cool. next question. do i strip the holding fish before i do anything. they will be 14 days on sunday so if i strip now it's at 13 days. Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 grace, Whats going on down there? What filters are you running? I know this is not the first time your have had this sort of prob. I dont know if the med's will affect the fry, but to be on the safe side, I would strip the female. josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I would strip the fry but don't move them to a different tank. You need to isolate this tank till to find out what’s going on. Stripping the females will reduce the stress of holding, hopefully enabling them to pull through. How do the fish look before and after they die? Are they bloating? Are they torn apart by the brownae? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbeer Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Ok, obviously the fish were happy enough as they do have mouth fulls, so conditions can;t have been continually bad. I am leaning towards some sort of poisoning. Did they seem to go downhill after a water change?? Has something been introduced to the tank? I would probably try a 50% waterchange and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Wombat Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 How long has this tank been set up Grace and what filtration are you running? If i was you i would treat the whole tank with malachite green - that seems to fix most external parasite problems. Turn off the lights, run an extra air stone in the tank, and turn off any canister filters foir the first 12 hours, before you medicate. (thats what i do) You might loose the fry if there is a disease problem in the tank, if you medicate or not. I remember loosing a whole lot of peacock fry once when i got gill flukes. Sorry to hear that you are going through the wars again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graceless Posted July 10, 2004 Author Share Posted July 10, 2004 I would strip the fry but don't move them to a different tank. You need to isolate this tank till to find out what’s going on. Stripping the females will reduce the stress of holding, hopefully enabling them to pull through. How do the fish look before and after they die? Are they bloating? Are they torn apart by the brownae? they hand around the bottom for a few days then just fall over. they are gasping a lot too. not being touched by other fish. Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graceless Posted July 10, 2004 Author Share Posted July 10, 2004 Ok, obviously the fish were happy enough as they do have mouth fulls, so conditions can;t have been continually bad. I am leaning towards some sort of poisoning. Did they seem to go downhill after a water change?? Has something been introduced to the tank? I would probably try a 50% waterchange and see what happens. i guess it might have gone downhill after a water change - i can't remember specifically, but that sorta fits. the only new things in the tank are the brownae pair (1 week now) and they seem happy as larry! they're the only fish that don't seem to be affected at all. Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graceless Posted July 10, 2004 Author Share Posted July 10, 2004 Stripping the females will reduce the stress of holding, hopefully enabling them to pull through. i forgot to say this before. i went to strip them last night, and they are no longer holding. not a baby to be seen. i'm guessing they swallowed? Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colfish Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 hi Grace you say they seem to go downhill after a water change. what volume of water do you change? what do you add to the water? [be precise] you say all water paremeters are ok!. i've had similar symptons, fish gasping, lying on the substrate. a quick check found a canister filter had blocked, only cleaned it a week ago. [different floss] added a power head in a sponge and a 25% change, all was well. here to help, hope we can. regards; colfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 hi Grace, Sorry to hear that you are still having problems . I had a similar problem with one of my tanks, but rather than illnesss it was a physical filtration problem. I added a powerhead attachment and filter wool insert. (hard to describe you would have to see it) to the intake of my fluval 304 to try stop any sand that the fish decided tospit into my filter. I cleaned it once a week for about 6 months and then noticed that the fish were breathing heavily. So I replaced the insert with fresh filter wool and in a couple of hours they were fine again. I can only assume that I could no longer clean the insert and it was reducing the flow of the water as the fish had basically stopped any activity. While the water flow did not seem affected (untested mind you) once I threw it out the fish were fine again. I no longer use the attachment as it just caused more problem than it was worth. So back to your problem (I do rave on abit ), so depending on what type of filtration system you actually have in that tank (as I can't remember when I saw your tank), if you have some filter wool in your filter somewhere it may worth replacing. HTH Rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graceless Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 UPADATE: the brownae male is now dead too. only survivors at this point are the tetras i have in there, and the female brownae that is starting to look a bit sad now too! i did a 40% water change on sunday, and a test this morning confirms that water parameters are still stable at: Ammonia - 0 Nitrites - 0 Nitrates - 10 pH - 7.8 Gen hardness - 12 So i'm stumped - there goes my whole theory of it being the male brownae causing trouble. i have resigned to the fact that it must be fluke. i did a good examination of the brownae male - his gills are flared past what i thought they could go (they are soooooo puffed out) and he had some slime trailing frm them when i discovered him. I'm now searching for ideas of how to treat the tank for gill fluke. will it remain dormant once all the fish die? i refuse to subject another fish to that tank until i have it worked out. CHeers Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gutty Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 40% water change ?........with cold tap water and possibly no dechlorinater....... If you are going to change that much water at this time of year you really should be heating it first. If you changed 40% with straight tap water(as posted by you in the water change thread) the temp change could very well shock your fish causing any number of problems. 25% is plenty for majority of africans IMO....especailly at this time of year. Just as an example Grace, i had a tank with a case of white spot last year, it wiped out almost my entire tank in 3 days. All i noticed was some heavy breathing........then floating fish. Only at the end did the last 2 surviving fish show the spots. I assume there immune systems were simply not up to the task for even a few days as the ich didn't even make it out to the skin/scales before killing them. All this began with a 50% water change.......that wasn't even straight from the tap. Aged/dechlorinated in a barrell for a few hours but not heated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graceless Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 40% water change ?........with cold tap water and possibly no dechlorinater....... If you are going to change that much water at this time of year you really should be heating it first. If you changed 40% with straight tap water(as posted by you in the water change thread) the temp change could very well shock your fish causing any number of problems. 25% is plenty for majority of africans IMO....especailly at this time of year. Just as an example Grace, i had a tank with a case of white spot last year, it wiped out almost my entire tank in 3 days. All i noticed was some heavy breathing........then floating fish. Only at the end did the last 2 surviving fish show the spots. I assume there immune systems were simply not up to the task for even a few days as the ich didn't even make it out to the skin/scales before killing them. All this began with a 50% water change.......that wasn't even straight from the tap. Aged/dechlorinated in a barrell for a few hours but not heated. warm tap water this time. into a bucket and dechlorinated, then into the tank. minimal heat change i believe. i don't know what it is - all i know is that it's localized to that tank only. i suspect that maybe it is a parasite of some form. i am shattered as to the $$$ value and the niceness of the fish i have lost. i am very close to giving up. i have followed the book this time. done everything best practice - nothing dodgy - and i have still failed. maybe i'm just not supposed to keep fish. Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Hi Grace I have not seen here what type of filtration you are using ? Cheers Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graceless Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 Hi Grace I have not seen here what type of filtration you are using ? Cheers Kevin sorry, it is an internal powerhead filter. 1200L/hr. only contains bio-balls and sponge at the moment. CHeers Grace p.s. KEVIN - can you please PM me Brad's number or ask him to call me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 How do you clean the filter ........also how deep is the gravel ...if any ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graceless Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 How do you clean the filter ........also how deep is the gravel ...if any ? i haven't cleaned the filter for 2 weeks, but it doesn't appear to be clogged. usually i clean it in a bucket that has tank water in it though the substrate is sand - it's approx 5cm deep. Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckmeister Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Hi Grace. Sometimes doing water changes is not enough. You can add salt if you think it has an external problem. melafix is better IMO (cut and scatches etc), but you have to eventually look at the fish and make a determination on what you 'think' the problem is and treat the problem. Medicating and diagnosing fish is a hit and miss affair much of the time but worth the guesswork if you save the fish. Ask questions and then act on the information given or you run the risk of losing your whole tank which sort of puts a dampener on the enjoyment of the hobby Gill fluke can (assuming that is what it is...my guess ) kill a tank and you can change as much water as you like and you'll still lose your fish. Its a three day treatment, water change then another coarse (I think), thats it. It doesn't effect your filter so you are safe there too. Worth a shot I reckon Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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