Daryna88 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Hey all,My husband and i have spent the whole night discussing hybrids, and here is what we came up with. This is a common scenario:You get a tank fill it with juvenile cichlids pretty tank everyone happy. 6 months down the track turns out your electric yellow is a female and she has just mated with a venustus!!! Kids want to grow the babies up and you think it will be a good experience for them. 3 months later you have 50 hybrids, so you try to sell them to get atleast enough money for a beer on friday night. You first try to sell them for what they are but no buyers then you try to sell them cheap for whatever they look like more. So now you have flooded the market with a bunch of hybrids and can't even enjoy your beer cause the buyer isn't happy!Here are 2 possible solutions:1) some stores buy the hybrids as feeder fish for 20c or 50c whatever and sell them to those with huge fish who like to watch their big boys munch up little guys.2) sell cuckoo fish as cichlid condoms to each person who wants a community tank who don't want to breed or deal with cichlid offspring!what are your views guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckmeister Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Daryna, I've been reading your other post but I'll offer you some reasoning to why hybrids are unwanted.The main reason is that Australia has a limited stock to work with. In the 70's and 80's there were no restrictions on importing fish. that changed when the government decided that there were quarantine issues. There were risks of people flushing fish down the toilet if they didn't want them or going over to the nearest lake and dumping them in there because they couldn't bare to dispose of them. It posed a problem for native fish. This led to import restrictions.So to make a long story shorter...the government made it difficult to import just about everything.This left australia with a set amount of stock to work with that can never be built upon.Nearly every state has a cichlid society and 2 of the primary roles is to maintain rare species. This means recognizing species that are disappearing and making sure some or at least one person has it covered.The other is maintaining species that we currently have in Australia so that we can keep on enjoying the legit species we have in Australia...because they cant be replaced.I remember this forum in its day used to demand that you wrote species name in proper scientific name and locality if there was one.Its since slipped a little but at the end of the day most of us here are trying to maintain what we have here. Its not a personal thing, its a maintenance issue with limited stock levels.Fish, Species, varients etc all need to be maintained because t o cross breed and pollute lines is what degrades the hobby for the future.Its important that even locality's are pure. Why destroy two pure locality's for lack of attention? It ruins it for ever for everyone.I'm not sure what forum you are on feeding you a fair bit of non sense. Its obviously rankled you but this forum is one of the best in the country imo and most info you get is pretty straight forward.I love the fact your passionate already...we need more people that are curious and asking questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buccal Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I've bred many fish for many years,, I've been churning out from a collection of 130 species or so.Throughout my breeding work, I've been lumbered roughly about 4 times so far with impurity species,,, which is pretty good going,, obviously bought as very young fry.The second I realized,, the lot were culled or thrown into the retirement villages "ibc's"It's the breeders duty to dispose or manage in a correct fashion.Shops only really dedicate floor space to profitable stock, and even then it's still very tough at best of times.Feeders in general will likely be imports like barbs or the likes of which can be obtained for less than 5c each.There's really no sustainable solution,,,, and in general feeders selling in shops don't really sell that well, as most wanting feeders just breed their own.Much easier to just set your tank up to avoid crossings,,, so you can at least trade in for fish food at shops, or sell.There are plenty of compromised specie purities as it is,,,,, damage control must be kept in check.Most shops are doing their part sticking to reputable breeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buccal Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Well said Chuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t3v0r0 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Interesting topic.Read this on one of the site sponsors website: Link here: http://www.majesticaquariums.com.au/news/save-the-cichlid/A call to all Cichlid BreedersAustralian law allows very few Cichlids to be imported into Australia, this is to allow the authorities an amount of control over this family of fish. The laws are to lessen the potential risk of these fish being released into Australian waterways, which may effect the native fish stocks. It is important that any person keeping any type of aquarium fish is aware that they should never allow any ornamental fish or aquatic plant to be released into an Australian waterway. Any Cichlid which you no longer require should be returned to an aquarium store or destroyed.As there is only a limited number of Cichlids allowed into the country, it is therefore very important that we need to be doing everything in our power to preserve the other species that we have here by ensuring that we never allow our fish to crossbreed. A crossbred fish is where two different species of fish produce young together. The way that you do this is to make sure you are breeding the right male of a species with the right female of the same species. If you are not sure that you are breeding the right male with the right female then you should not allow the fry to leave your possession.Any Cichlids bred in a community aquarium should be regarded as crossbred, unless they are grown up to a size in which they are clearly able to be distinguished as a true species. These fish should never be sold as juveniles as many fish are not able to be recognized as crossbred until they mature. Remember that within a batch of fry from one mother, several males may have fertilized the one set of eggs. So within a community aquarium you can never be sure they are all true, even if some clearly are. You must never allow a fish to leave your possession unless you are totally sure it is a true species. The only way that you can ensure this is to have a designated breeding tank in which you keep the parents for any spawning.The problem with crossbred fish is that if everyone started breeding crossbred fish, it would dilute and eventually destroy the true species we do have by crossing them all together.Most people start out with a basic community Cichlid aquarium. Once their fish grow and start to breed in their tank, they soon realise the pleasures of Cichlid breeding. They then get another tank to raise young, then another, then another and then another. What started out as a pleasurable hobby soon consumes their life as they develop the idea of becoming a professional breeder.I believe it is important for most people to understand that this really a hobby, it started out a hobby and is always will be a hobby. The amount of outlay involved in breeding enough fish to make enough money to support a family is immense and almost never achieved in Australia. My advice is to grow slowly as a breeder and never loose sight of the fact that you do this for fun. I have seen too many good breeders come and go because they grow too fast and the house is soon full of fish tanks, which often puts too much stress on their family and their time. They try harder and harder to make it profitable and soon give up altogether with frustration.Most common Cichlids sell to the shops at about $3 each at 4cm, but rarer Cichlids can sell for up to $20 each. The problem is that all the breeders try to breed the fish which they make the most money on, this is always the very popular rare fish. This means that a lot of the breeder are breeding all the same fish at the same time. When a new or rare fish comes on the market everyone is happy to pay a high price and try to breed them hoping to sell them at a high price. Once the new or rare fish become common and the price then drops, most of the breeders stop breeding them. Once people stop breeding them again they soon become rare again and the price starts to rise again. Once the price starts to rise again everyone wants to start breeding them again and so it goes on. The problem with people breeding fish for the return value is that many Cichlids that were once common in Australia soon become lost to the hobby because everyone stops breeding them at once. This is because they are not returning the same money and then they are soon all gone. This has happened to countless species over the years.My request to all breeders to select at least once species for each person, which you will stay responsible for to ensure that these fish keep breeding and surviving in Australia. Not for the money but for the hobby. If everyone tried to pick one species that is at the time not so common, we could ensure that all species will be here for good and we can stop losing so many wonderful diverse Cichlids to this hobby. When picking a Cichlid to be responsible for, communicate with as many people as possible to ensure you don’t pick a fish that a lot of people are breeding already. Various aquarium stores have lists of who breeds which fish to ensure their own supply and that you can access to help you choose which fish to support. Majestic Aquariums in Taren Point, Sydney run an extensive program called ‘Save the Cichlid’ which aims to stop Cichlid species being lost to the hobby. To become a part of the Save the Cichlid program simply email your name, phone number and what species you choose to be responsible for to paul@majesticaquariums.com.au. Majestic Aquariums are currently collecting information to post on their web site under `Save the Cichlid`. On the website, breeders can access a full comprehensive Cichlid list. This way anyone can see how many people breed the same fish or which species need to be bred. No private information is accessed by any person except one single staff member who is responsible for updating the list. Majestic Aquariums will be in contact with each person on the list twice a year to ensure the list is valid. Any one registering a fish on the list is to agree to keep breeding that fish unless they find someone else to take over their registry or they contact Majestic Aquariums by email to tell them that they will no longer be breeding this fish. At this point for any rarer species Majestic Aquariums will try to find a new person to register that same fish ensuring they stay strong in the hobby forever.We must try to support people like Anthony Ramsey and the PIAA that are working to ensure the laws are fair in regards to the importation of Cichlids to Australia. Any new fish that we are able to get on the allowable import list helps to improve and expand our hobby.Another issue facing availability of Cichlids in Australia is the release of hormone-based colour enhancing food. As many of the Cichlids have beautifully coloured males while the females are quite bland in colour, people are tempted to use hormone-based foods to allow them to have a display tank full of coloured fish. These foods will make the male`s colour look amazing and also make the female colour up as well. As attractive as this sounds, it has massive negative effects on the long-term health of the fish. With extended use of this food, the immune system of the fish will close down and the fish will become impotent, therefore no longer able to reproduce. If everyone used this food, we would be faced with even bigger issues in terms of the availability of non-importable Cichlids.There has been claim that over 200 species have come and gone from the Australian Cichlid hobby in the last 15 years. I can only imagine the impact those 200 fish would have had on the variety available now if they were all around now because of a program as simple as Save the Cichlid. It is a shame to see so many wonderful Cichlids come and go from this great hobby when with a little dedication and communication we can ensure that they all live on for us all forever.The article above raises some good points. Does anyone know if the "Save The Cichlid" program kicked off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simy696 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 your comments were good chuck but the local forum was my states source for information as there are not many south ausies here i find it a way to get local knowledge and meet people within my area. ive read nothing off what she is talking about on that sight and is taking her pride to this sight. for what reason i dont no. also nice piece t3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryna88 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 That is truly a great piece t3. I have never haerd of the 'save the cichlid' initiative until now. The only reason i am on forums like this is to constantly keep learning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I think the biggest problem is attitude.Not having a shot, but using the example you have used Daryna. The fish should never be sold, grow them up, teach the kids about fish, but they are your responsibility (the fish) at the end of the day.I would loose my crap if I was sold non-pure fish for beer money. I would be even more pee'd if I wasn't told they were hybrids.I have no idea of the original deal that went wrong. I don't know if you were the seller or the buyer, but these threads always end the same way. If the two parties cant sort it out in private, it wont be sorted out in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simy696 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Well said and probably hit the nail on the head Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intangcity Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 id prob show the kids the fry then when they are asleep cull the lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryna88 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 I have had 2 instances of purchasing hybrids and then sold them on or given them away as hybrids to people with display tanks making absolutely certain they are aware of the unpure origin of the fish, I also keep tabs on the fish to ensure that the spawn of these fish do not ruin the market. If those fish would not have been taken of me by responsible owners I would have fed them to my mates barramundi. I have not had hybrids bred in my tanks and have a system going to make it almost for my guys to cross breed this was just my husband and I discussing possible solutions for possible problems cause that's just what the two of us do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryna88 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 The scenario I used is not a situation I have personally faced but one that I imagine happens with novice cichlid keepers who are unaware of the consequences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxib Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 If you wanted a particular species of animal wouldnt you want to be assured thats what your getting.Maybe it depends on your level of interest in the hobby. If your' hardcore' then you want the purest lines possible. If you just want to see something swimming around and can say its an african cichlid then go buy a pet store hybrid. I started the hobby with some pure fish and some some hybrids. The hybrids have bred several times. I have seen the pet store selling fish exactly like mine as OB Peacock for 20 each. Too me thats ridiculous. I am culling the hybrids and focusing on the fish I can positively identify. They are more colorful and interesting considering they are an actual species that live in the wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryna88 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Maxib of course i would prefer the pure to the hybrid that is why i am brainstorming ideas which could be solutions, maybe they are not applicable or would not help the preservation of purity but i just thought i would put two ideas which my husband and i came up with. I am a novice when it comes to cichlids but i never go into anything half heartily and feel extremely passionate about everything that i am involved with which currently lies mainly with cichlids and dog rescue/rehabilitation. I truly reckon that shops should sell cuckoo fish to anyone who buys mouth brooding cichlids with no intention of responsible breeding. The cuckoo fish destroys the eggs of a mouth brooding cichlid replacing the eggs with its own hence eliminating the possibility of hybrid offspring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxib Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I need one of those catfish to deal with my hybrids. I too have kids who dont understand why I want to 'cull' my fish. They love the hybrids and pure species equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryna88 Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Thats the beauty of kids they don't discriminate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buccal Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Neither do fish or dogs hah hah.I guess a certain level of intelligence is reached, then reasoning processes sees the truth in situations that leads to discrimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.