brogdenelian Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Hi all, I walked in from work tonight to find my female Afra Cobwe looking worse for wear. her tail fin is looking quite tatty and she has a mark toward her tail that looks like she has had damage to her scales (possibly from another fish). If you have some idea if this may be a disease or just bullying from another fish, I would love your feedback Regards Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathobes Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 What other fish are in the tank? How long has it been setup for? Any new additions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brogdenelian Posted June 16, 2010 Author Share Posted June 16, 2010 What other fish are in the tank? How long has it been setup for? Any new additions? The tank has been running for over 12 months. It is a community tank and houses various mbuna species. I have never seen any other fish give her grief in the past and I have no new additions. A bit puzzled really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathobes Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Is it possible that they are spawning? Have you seen breeding behaviour happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin4 Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Some other tankmate does not like her/ him or male wants to breed and she's the only female? So getting all his attention. She needs to be removed or put in a floating tank and treated with multi cure to help heal the fin's and looking like fungus about to show on tail. Other fish in tank as asked.Maybe another male?. Needs you to help her or she will be picked on more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin4 Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Looks like being beaten to death by a male Try multi cure but don't like the odds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foti Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Just a thought. Could she be a he ? I hope it all works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Definitely bullying. Could easily become disease now, as the fish will be stressed, which usually lowers immune system response. What size tank? Do you have enough refuges (e.g. PVC pipe, rocks, clay pots, etc.)? If you give us some idea of how they are set up, we can help advise on how to lessen the risk of further damage/death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brogdenelian Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 Definitely bullying. Could easily become disease now, as the fish will be stressed, which usually lowers immune system response. What size tank? Do you have enough refuges (e.g. PVC pipe, rocks, clay pots, etc.)? If you give us some idea of how they are set up, we can help advise on how to lessen the risk of further damage/death. She has lost all of her tail now.. Not looking good!!!! I have has the following species in the tank now for over twelve months without much agro at all: 2 x Red Zebras 2 x Afra Cobwe 2 x Afra jalo Reef 2 x Demasoni 2 x Interuptus 2 x Crabro 2 x Trevaswe 2 x Red Fin Borleyi 2 x Hongi 2 x Electric Blue 2 x Kingsizei 2 x Red Rubin 4 x Msobo 4 x Aceii 4 x Cobalts 1 x Maingano 2 x Auratus 4 x Brichardi 5 x Electric Yellows Initially I thought the 2 male afras may be giving her grief but they only ever seem to have dramas with each other. the tank is a six footer. Here's a piccy Anyway, I look forward to some more feedback. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpfc Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I would get her out of there. I have a tub, heater and filter on hand for that purpose. IMO, which is inexperienced, I would be looking at creating more caves and hiding places. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I would get her out of there. I have a tub, heater and filter on hand for that purpose. IMO, which is inexperienced, I would be looking at creating more caves and hiding places. Good luck. Agreed, your tank is large enough to set up afew caves, try to do that, but for now get her out of the tank, put her in another tank (with the same water, so it doesnt add more stress) and keep her in there until she heals, that is what i, and most others would do. Poor fish, looks very beautiful its unfortunate what has happened but it would be more unfortunate if nothing is done about it and it ends up dying. Please do what weve suggested and let us know how she is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foti Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Definitely bullying. Could easily become disease now, as the fish will be stressed, which usually lowers immune system response. What size tank? Do you have enough refuges (e.g. PVC pipe, rocks, clay pots, etc.)? If you give us some idea of how they are set up, we can help advise on how to lessen the risk of further damage/death. She has lost all of her tail now.. Not looking good!!!! I have has the following species in the tank now for over twelve months without much agro at all: 2 x Red Zebras 2 x Afra Cobwe 2 x Afra jalo Reef 2 x Demasoni 2 x Interuptus 2 x Crabro 2 x Trevaswe 2 x Red Fin Borleyi 2 x Hongi 2 x Electric Blue 2 x Kingsizei 2 x Red Rubin 4 x Msobo 4 x Aceii 4 x Cobalts 1 x Maingano 2 x Auratus 4 x Brichardi 5 x Electric Yellows Initially I thought the 2 male afras may be giving her grief but they only ever seem to have dramas with each other. the tank is a six footer. Here's a piccy Anyway, I look forward to some more feedback. Josh josh nice setup but could not see a picture of your 2 males i have never seen a fish with damage like her just by a constent nipping have a look at the link i belowsould show fin rot ? and a method of treatment! even if it is not it would be a good read for you? http://www.jbl.de/onlinehospitaluk/perpict...lickedPic=004_g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctaylor Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 josh nice setup but could not see a picture of your 2 males i have never seen a fish with damage like her just by a constent nipping have a look at the link i belowsould show fin rot ? and a method of treatment! even if it is not it would be a good read for you? http://www.jbl.de/onlinehospitaluk/perpict...lickedPic=004_g I have to agree that is a pretty intense injury for nipping, it seems strange for this to only be happening now when the tank has been established for so long, the tank looks great but get some more pots in there for them to hide in. Foti's link is a great resource and I agree that it is starting to look a lot like fin rot, are none of the other tank mates being nipped at in the same way? Your list is 45+ fish, can only see a handful in the pic amazed you haven't had more aggression... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin4 Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Shocking to leave a fish to be beaten to death.I think its a male as well to much colour for f. Its only going to die now as your not taking any notice of advice given by many worse luck.Its not fin rot ( but needed a treatment to stop that being the case) as only a few days now, just bullying. You have had good luck but your fish look to be getting to breeding size so all hell breaks loose. Dont mean to give you bad news but thats the way it is. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brogdenelian Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 Shocking to leave a fish to be beaten to death.I think its a male as well to much colour for f. Its only going to die now as your not taking any notice of advice given by many worse luck.Its not fin rot ( but needed a treatment to stop that being the case) as only a few days now, just bullying. You have had good luck but your fish look to be getting to breeding size so all hell breaks loose. Dont mean to give you bad news but thats the way it is. Good Luck Dobbin, Bit of a strange comment there mate. "Its only going to die now as your not taking any notice of advice given by many worse luck. Why do you think I'm seeking advice??? Anyway, to all those that have given some intelligent advise It's much appreciated. I now have her in a quarantine tank and am keeping a close eye on her. Regards Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.K Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 glad you got her outta there now. great looking tank...buggered if i can see 45 fish in there ! can you take a pic of the tank with the fish visible. would be great to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin4 Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Not a strange comment at all, I feel for the poor fish. If you had taken the fish out of the bully's bashing you may have saved the fish. I cant see it being saved now as you can see its getting worse before your eyes. Take it out of the tank, if you cant then use a floating tub/ container and some multi cure to try to save it.You say you have done that now? why not have done that when advice was given .Like your title says My poor afra cobwe.When a fish has been bashed as bad as the tail on your fish it will never swim properly again or the tail fin regrow. I'm sorry but even if you can keep it alive it will never be able to cope, you needed to act to save it not post more photos.Just look at photo 1 then photo 2. If it was in a safe container when you first saw this you could have had a good go to save her/him. Harsh but true. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brogdenelian Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 Not a strange comment at all, I feel for the poor fish. If you had taken the fish out of the bully's bashing you may have saved the fish. I cant see it being saved now as you can see its getting worse before your eyes. Take it out of the tank, if you cant then use a floating tub/ container and some multi cure to try to save it.You say you have done that now? why not have done that when advice was given .Like your title says My poor afra cobwe.When a fish has been bashed as bad as the tail on your fish it will never swim properly again or the tail fin regrow. I'm sorry but even if you can keep it alive it will never be able to cope, you needed to act to save it not post more photos.Just look at photo 1 then photo 2. If it was in a safe container when you first saw this you could have had a good go to saved her/him. Harsh but true. Dobbin, Unfortunately your "harsh but true comments" don't wash with me. Either give some constructive advise or pull your head in. Have you ever made a mistake or had to learn the hard way...you obviously think not. Why is it that forums always have one person poised and ready to rip the wee wEE out of any newbie that asks a simple question??? Do you honestly think I would sit there and watch her being attacked?...No I wouldn't. do you think I'm happy with the result...No I'm not! So before you go on the attack next time, perhaps you can ask a few questions first!!! Anyway, I don't have all the answers but obviously you do! Thanks for the welcome to the forum Dobbin....much appreciated! Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brogdenelian Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 glad you got her outta there now. great looking tank...buggered if i can see 45 fish in there ! can you take a pic of the tank with the fish visible. would be great to see. Thanks Chris, the tank photo of the tank was taken in the early days. Here is a more recent video of the tank: Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foti Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Josh! it is good that you got the fish out and yes we all leave things that are best acted upon, though all & all nice set up, in vid the fish are young so it's time now that fighting will begin as for your female i still think its a male you will need to treat him for a long time i hope you put the efort in now, even if it looks good you will need to make sure its perfect only because once it goes back in it would be attact again! as any new member would so it has to be in good health! as for harasment fish tend to die ! what i mean is if that fish was being attacted it would be dead! i only say this because this fish no longer has the obility to swim away, if it is being attacted! you probaly have a fish that has had a niped fin that had become infected which turned into fin rot sad but true you must treat him with meds as for your set up you will need to run through some things to see if water is okay im sure it might look cristal clear in the vid but there is 45 fish "grown" in there with alot more waste now so do you add salt what is your WC process& how often is it done ph- this would be at a good rate from all the buffing agents i seen but still test if over loaded with waste it will drop alittle Ammonia and nitrite take your water to a store if you dont have a test kit they sould give you a reading on all of these but for a fee im only suggesting this to help as fin rot it a sign of both stressed fish and water quality including WC process all post here have been to help you some times alittle tuff lov doesn't hurt but build a thicker skin im sure this fish is in good hands so best of luck and keep posting for advice or even just updates p.s. we all lik photos so keep them coming http://www.aceforums.com.au/index.php?show...7&hl=deases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brogdenelian Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 Josh! it is good that you got the fish out and yes we all leave things that are best acted upon, though all & all nice set up, in vid the fish are young so it's time now that fighting will begin as for your female i still think its a male you will need to treat him for a long time i hope you put the efort in now, even if it looks good you will need to make sure its perfect only because once it goes back in it would be attact again! as any new member would so it has to be in good health! as for harasment fish tend to die ! what i mean is if that fish was being attacted it would be dead! i only say this because this fish no longer has the obility to swim away, if it is being attacted! you probaly have a fish that has had a niped fin that had become infected which turned into fin rot sad but true you must treat him with meds as for your set up you will need to run through some things to see if water is okay im sure it might look cristal clear in the vid but there is 45 fish "grown" in there with alot more waste now so do you add salt what is your WC process& how often is it done ph- this would be at a good rate from all the buffing agents i seen but still test if over loaded with waste it will drop alittle Ammonia and nitrite take your water to a store if you dont have a test kit they sould give you a reading on all of these but for a fee im only suggesting this to help as fin rot it a sign of both stressed fish and water quality including WC process all post here have been to help you some times alittle tuff lov doesn't hurt but build a thicker skin im sure this fish is in good hands so best of luck and keep posting for advice or even just updates p.s. we all lik photos so keep them coming http://www.aceforums.com.au/index.php?show...7&hl=deases Foti thanks for the constructive advice. I understand your idea on Tuff Love, and I'm not at all fond of people being precious, however, I just dont like people jumping to conclusions and leaving obnoxious posts. If I had somewhere to put her at the time I would have done it straight away. Anyway..time to move on! Here's a little info on my setup. I do 40% water changes every 10 days. I run the inbuilt aqua one troph filter and a 2400l/s cannister, both with biological rock and filter wool. My total filtration runs at approximately 4000l/ph for a 540 litre tank. I test the water approx every 2 weeks and have never experienced any big spikes (once the tank had cycled). I have a test kit a tested the following results this morning: PH: 7.8 (A little low) Ammonia: 0 ppm Nitrate: 0ppm Nitrite: .5ppm (This has spiked) KH: 75ppm I have added some Prime to deal with the nitrate spike temporarily while I do a water change. The other thing I need to mention is the fish having been successfully breeding for some time now. I have had fish go full term and others I have stripped and tumbled. Not sure if this is indicative of a balanced environment or not? Keep the advice coming guys..it's much appreciated Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.K Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Thanks Chris, the tank photo of the tank was taken in the early days. Here is a more recent video of the tank: Josh great lookin tank. i remember that video from when i was starting to set up my tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foti Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 i would say that breeding is a good sign of a good enviroment tho not balanced for they will breed on a WC as for your ph and nitrite they are showing a overload in waste i would say there is no need to test waster every 2 weeks more like every 6 months and only if things have changed or you know that the bio load is high so you may need to think of a solution rather than a fix for the bio load will continue to increase as your fish grow . you are right with water change! i would like to sugest feed less and a WC every 5 days of only 15% with you vacuming gravel every 2nd WC of 30% for now that will maintain your load clean filter ever 3-4 months (tank water) this is very time consuming so i would say when funds are avalable or get a chance of a good buy consider a new filter to add to your system so you can rotate your cleans aswell (on a rotation or every 3-4 months one then the other) to be honnest you have a good routine and those who keep big tanks know how hard it is to maintain such a large tank you the most for such a large stock list p.s. have you ever striped this fish ? and if you check the link posted before you will see a fish that had a whole tail grow back in 4 weeks but i would say still wait more like 8 weeks keep it well feed high quality feed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin4 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Some other tankmate does not like her/ him or male wants to breed and she's the only female? So getting all his attention. She needs to be removed or put in a floating tank and treated with multi cure to help heal the fin's and looking like fungus about to show on tail. Other fish in tank as asked.Maybe another male?. Needs you to help her or she will be picked on more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link2Hell Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Josh I don't think Dobbin was being personal from what I'm reading some times it seems that way with text It's not so much tough love but the fact you learn that this can be the outcome as far as loosing fish well it's never good especially with the one's you get attached to, but this is a hobby with livestock and these things are all part of that .............. it's worse when you lose an entire fishroom been there done that the only answer to the initial problem is try and have an isolation floatie handy in case something like this happens again and good for moving holding females into the tail is the usual damage spot for a fish that is being harrassed and chased the damage then transfers up the body as the swim speed decreases Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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