Zaire Blue Fronty's

[Nigel]

Yes you can get species added to the import list. Not easy the last time it was done was in 1998. How you go about this is you have to prove that it will have no impact on our environment.

[Vicious Camel]

OK. headed down the library and did a little research on this taday. Milt -- freezes and thaws fine, apparently the aquaculture industry has been doing it for years and it looks like anyone with access to a lab and a couple of references could pull it off. Ova on the otherhand is a far trickier gamete! There are a couple of sketchy reports around from people claiming to have done it, but, the general consensus appears that it cannot be done at present. Having said that there are still lots of people trying to develop a protocol to do so, so perhaps there is a method out there somewhere. Apparently it is the yolk sac that causes all the problems upon freezing, a problem that us higher animals do not have to contend with which is why mamalian eggs freeze fine and fish eggs do not. I am keen to do a bit more reading though so i will let you know if i come up with anything else. The upside on all this though is that the easily frozen and thawed male gametes may provide an easy means by which to get some new 6-bar blood into the country??

Does anyone know the legality of importing milt/eggs?

23skidoo -- transporting them warm? don't know to be honest. my hunch is not, but i'd guess that the ova would have a better chance of the two in this instance... Would need to provide it with an almost ideal media to be transported. Don't know, maybe thats possible too???

anyone else?

cheers

VC

[Mazimbwe]

Milt -- freezes and thaws fine....Ova on the otherhand is a far trickier gamete!

LMAO. :lol:

Are you trying to tell me that the male portion of the problem is more easily solved than the female part of the problem??

A "Fact" that many of the male species has suspected for ions...trouble has been that our Wives/Girlfriends kept telling us that "we" have been the "Difficult Bastards" in the equation. : :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Chester]

If one year down the track we hear that someone has been arrested for illegally importing fish we will know that you decided to test out your theories. :D :D :D

[Mazimbwe]

To my mind someone who wants to buy an illegally imported fish with guarantees of authenticity etc is like some druggie asking his dealer to show his import permit.

hmmm...nice try

The difference is;

: I am not on a "Drug Supply Board"

: If some dealer charged me the sort of money I would be laying out for the Fronty's...I would; 1. wanna see em "do a line". 2. I would test the gear( a lot easier with drugs than with genetics). 3. and if they ripped me off I would go back with an army-size load of equipment and extract my "Scarface" type revenge on their helpless family!!

The fact is we are not talking about Drugs or guns or the share-market or risk assessment...or anything else that ya wanna try to discuss. :rolleyes:

We are talking about Fronty's and as such my Warning stands.

If you wanna part with you cash that bad...without heeding my warning...maybe Fish are the new "Crack". Would be damn hard to pull a Fronty thru a little pipe tho!! :lol:

[Vicious Camel]

:lol: @ you Mazimbwe. Who'd have guessed that about the female half of the equation hey?!?!

Also, rather than trying to suck one of the buggers through a straw, maybe the buyer could go for a 'trainspotting'-style route of administration? : :

CTTR: Nah, not me. i'm far too lazy to actually do it. Still waiting to see if anyone can tell me if it's all legal?. i suspect its not actually illegal, possibly just not stated as being legal -- and no, i have no idea where that leaves us!

cheers VC

[Nigel]

I think a better way would be to start a lobby group and try to get fish added to the import list. There is enough people on this forum to make our voice heard. What do other people think about this idea.

[YeW]

Given that frontosa have just been rejected I think they are a silly choice to get started with.

I'm a biologist with a PhD in ecology (more or less) and would be happy to help someone preparing any submissions.

However, I'd recommend starting with a fish that is likely to be able to be "put" on the list. Starting with pie in the sky frontosas isn't a good beginning IMHO.

In saying that though - I have quite a lot on my plate, so someone else would be doing to vast majority of the work.

HTH -

[Nigel]

I do not suggest frontosa but there are plenty of otheres that would get approved

[Vicious Camel]

Nigel. Grand idea! :^: :^::^:

[Nigel]

Ok here is how it works. The Department of the Environment and Heritage set the import list thats who you have to put the submission to. Over to the forum to come up with the way to do it.

[saudukar]

Go Maz,

Im like picturing a cichlid owner standing by a tank taking a huge suck of a Met. zebra through a undergravel filter with all his friends shouting "TOKE!!! TOKE!!! TOKE!!! TOKE!!!".

Then having buckets in the bath full of Peacocks.

Then spending half the night paranoid that the synodontis catfish are REALLY undercover cops getting ready to raid your stash of Convicts.

[Hypo Zebra]

HI all just an opinion on this subject , the powers that be would be more against letting eggs in than fish for the simple fact eggs are creatures that cannot be identified . It will never happen , sorry. :

[Link2Hell]

The one thing that Frontosa have against them is they are piscavores , enviromental threat to local fish stock

The lobby group would have to work in with the next looser consultants the goverment use as the last ones sucked big time and knew less than a newbie

L2H

[Electric]

Why cant we use they are already here???

They have been here for many years and i have never herd of any damaging local rivers or lakes!

They are a slow fish and most of its prey would escape!

[Alex]

Eletric- If the fish was "slow" and all its prey escaped would it survive in lake Tanganyika? from what i know which isnt much about fronts in the wild they feed on the "sardine cichlid" leptosoma sp which are not exactly a slow fish themselves? by hunting when it's still relatively dark.

[Guest Gutty]

They have been here for many years and i have never herd of any damaging local rivers or lakes!

Maybe not Fronts but other Cichlids are reported to be living in a few NT and

QLD river systems. As much as i like Cichlids, this is not good at all.

And the more species that show up in our river systems the stricter the import laws will get IMO.

Lata

Matt

[Lurker]

I'm from Mackay in QLD and although i never saw any there is supposedly red devils in the river systems up there..

[Nigel]

There has been no constructive input here people. So i guess nobody wants to try and improve the import list.

[saudukar]

The people in charge of reviewing import fish requirements actually have to have WADS of information about the species under contemplation also any dieseses they may carry and any parasites that are common. Information includes conditions of native habitat. Normal breeding clutch sizes. Sexual behaviour. Food sources. Common biological contaiminates in native environment and so on. Then this has to be adopted by EVERY quarantine agencies in Australia that deal with imports. All the quarantine head boffins have to meet and discuss it. Which they dont do all that often. Then if it is adopted they have to change all quarntine documentation and inform people of it and train current quarntine staff on detection of it.

Of course this is all way too much work for what they do already so why contemplate something that adds to thier workload? They dont. Someone sat down years ago and knocked up a basic import list and basically in all the years I have been able to view the quarntine list it aint changed all that much.

Its an absolute joke that Mel. auratus is allowed in and not any other type of mbuna. Blue Acara's are another great example. Both these fish are allowed in. Both these fish represent almost ALL basic types of cichlids. No documentation proves Aeq. pulcher or Mel auratus in any way differ from any specific conditions or characteristics that other cichlids of that type have. Yet the list still prohibits these other fish. Understandibly logic prevails where you see (Genus) sp. on the list as it logical that all subspecies have same characteristics and therefore are deemed to be acceptable.

Dont even get me started about justification of species already here. Agian its workload. You would have to either deem them noxious as they are prohibited from Australian imports and do more work to erradicate them or you can accept it and ignore it. Which one would you choose?

Actually the biggest justification for allowing more species in is something most people wouldnt think of. Goldfish. OK they ARE noxious because they inhabit native waters AND breed. God knows if youve worked in quarntine before you will know they carry EVERY diesease under the sun and are quite hardy agianst most of them. Dont even get me started about external parasites. They are usually bought and bred EVERYWHERE in the world so quarntine restrictions in other countries are lax and they get passed around everywhere. Why are they on the list? Because they have to be. Imagine not being able to get simple goldfish?

The job in hobbiests lists should be making NOT adding more to the list more work for Australian Quarntine then letting them.

[Chester]

Here is some information for all of us that are in primary and secondary school.

Excotic pest fish in QLD waters

So if anyone lives up in QLD and wants to go fishing why not go to Townsville (Aplin Weir) or Cairns (Freshwater Ck). You may end up catching yourself an Oscar or two. :D