Dreamwater Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 How about black cardboard taped to the back of the tank (outside of course). Thanks for the idea, but somehow I really dont see cardboard and water getting on too well, the mess it would make is already making me cringe... If you decide to go for a plastic backing, cardboard or anything to fix on to the back of the tank make sure you try some scrap first before you commit to buying it. IMHO any kind of backing outside the tank can look pretty average unless it is smeared with some kind of lubricant then sealed on. This can be an absolute pain to put on and to keep on. I think you would be better off painting it.. This is just my opinion though I'm sure there are heaps of people who do it successfully. Ben I agree totally with that, thats why I didnt even consider going with something like black contact, ive seen it used and the very tiny trapped air bubbles that are almost all but impossible to remove all of them alone are enough to turn you off it. I think I am pretty settled on using a flat black paint applied by a roller..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 Just a couple of update pics, cabinet finally dry after giving it several coats of clear polyurathane, hood still needs another coat or two. Tank back on and sand is in (2 x 20kg bags) and will wait until water is in and sand has settled to see if any more required. The back and one end have had a couple of coats of matt black but still another 2 or 3 coats needed, so still looks a little gray, but geez it makes a difference, really brings out the sand with the light on... Starting to come together..... You can see a little water in the weir at the moment, just testing the bulhead and dorso has a good seal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed1 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Looking great mate! The black paint is coming up brilliantly! Sets an excellent contrast with the sand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fishy Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Looking good, things are happening quickly. I like this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonx Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 /me subscribes... I'm about to setup a 160L tank and this is helping me with ideas as well, thanks for the great info & its coming along very well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Thanks guys, not much done today though....decided to give an extra coat of clear poly to the inside of the cabinet where the sump will give out a fair amount of condensation, so a bit more protection on the pine wont hurt. Finished off the spray bar by drilling 3mm holes 25mm apart which gave approx 37 holes in the 120mm piece of pvc, decided to test it outside to check the pressure, attached to the 3500lph pump, turned it on and the spray was going out about 200mm from the spray bar ...so a fair amount of pressure out of the 3mm holes....perhaps the holes may need to be a bit bigger? or would that much pressure be more beneficial (will be noisier thats for sure ) Also finished off the dorso, had to drill large holes in the pre-filter section. Added another coat of matt to the black background, thats 3 coats so far and still looks like it will need another 2 at least! My 65ltr is only about 10ft away from the 6 footer and I swear George (my Green Sev) is sitting there sweating on it being ready for him, watching it all coming together The jewels are also sweating on it as they are still locked up in the fry keeper with their young, waiting to have the tank all to themselves.... I have to get some more internal decoration, atm I have 2 pieces of reasonable sized driftwood soaking, one a hollowed out branch and the other is about a 1.5' tall piece of mangrove root. Also about 10kg of river smoothed rocks (localy found got some great freshwater spring fed creeks/rivers up this way) but definately will need some more preferable wider and flatter ones, so the hunting will be on again soon.... Ummm, cant think of anything else that I got done today...really been the fiddly little jobs that were completed, so glad I work from home hehehe Cheers Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Well, got it to the point of actually adding water....! And thats were the problems start...... The spinning spray bar in the sump is not allowing enough water through to balance the 3500lph (+/-) of return, which causes the tank to over flow as the weir fills up. After drilling more holes in the spinner, and making them larger, nothing changes, so I took off the spinner and just held the hose in the sump, and everything went perfect! So after checking out the spinner I realised the opening where the hose attaches to is only about 20mm or less, so the water is getting closed down from flowing from a 35mm to only 20mm (or less), which is great if I was after more pressure out the end, but that is not what we want.....so now I have to either find a suitable spinning spray bar or find another way to allow the water to flow over the media....and it is bloody noisy when I am just holding the hose without the spinner on it......so a spinner is definately a better choice atm... OPEN FOR IDEAS THOUGH!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colfish Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 hi Jason yep, definately need a larger spinner, the 35mm hole in the weir isn't the problem. it's the output from the 3500lph pump vs the flow capacity of a 19mm spinner . is the spinner a 2 or 4 arm model? as a general guide the size of the spinner should exceed the outlet on the pump. the only option atm is to put an inline tap between the pump and the tank, to restrict the flow, untill a balance is acheived, but this will an enormous back pressure load on the pump and possibly make it very noisy. you do really need to install a 25mm spinner, a 2 arm will do the job but you need to have larger spray holes, which will cause the water to cascade over the bio balls, a 4 arm model will keep the holes smaller, allowing the water to trickle over the bio balls [as it should] suggest you get in touch with the supplier of the tank with the veiw of obtaining a larger spinner head. HTH, cheers, Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 Thanks Colin, You pretty much explained what I was thinking, I will add the inline tap as a temporary fix, and hunt down a 25mm spinner to take the load...... I have got the flow balance correct atm, but this has been done by putting on the spray bar, which has decreased the amount of flow, but I feel the backpressure it is causing the pump may not be too good for it...but will keep the cycle going at least, until I can get to do the above after weekend..... Cheers Jason edit - forgot to add, it is only a 2 arm spinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndoboi Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Just an idea Jason, To reduce the back pressure on the pump, while you're sorting out the spinner, you could use a T junction with a tap, rather than an inline tap, and return the excess flow into the sump through the tap line. Hope that makes sense.... Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 Cheers Steve, thats what I thought Colin meant first off..... Decided to go with the cycle using live fish, and a bit of seeding from current tank (gravel and filter sponge). Added Prime, then introduced 3 x neon tetras, 3 x black stripe tetras, 4 x rosey barbs, and 4 x fantail guppies....that should be enough in there shouldnt it? Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 I don't think that'll be enough mate. They don't produce enough waste. Go don't to your seafood shop and pickup a big barra! $10 for a 20cm fish and they are good for cycling and fun to watch eat! Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonx Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 And then eat it? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petshopdude Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 barra would be fun but i have seen ppl set up marine tanks, and chuck a heap of live bait in it, this cause the nitrates to go pretty high about a 1-2 after, it was high enough to kill most fish i felt, so yeah sometimes i think you can add too much to the cycle which in turns mean more time trying to settle the tank back down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 OK, added a few more fish, list is now... 3 x neon tetras, (about an inch each) 3 x black stripe tetras, (about 1" each) 9 x rosey barbs (range from .5" to 1" each) 4 x fantail guppies (ranging from 1" to 1.5" each) 2 x Ottos... (one just under 2" and the other about 3") They should be all I need to provide enough waste to get the cycle moving? I have also seeded the system with about 2 cups of gravel, and an old filter sponge placed in the top section of sump, and also the contents of the recent water change of my 2 footer (approx 25lts) which also contained a bit of rubbish from the gravel clean done while water removed. Will over feeding by just a tad help at all, I know plenty of people add fish food when doing a fishless cycle, so was just curious if it would help... Cheers Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 IMO it isn't enough. Those fish are small and have small mouths, producing very little waste. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Ive read Green Sevs are a recommended fish to use for cycling as they are very hardy and can handle quite a bit (ive seen one that was in a tank that was sitting on 1.5 - 2 ppm NH3 for over 3 weeks!!!) But I really dont want to risk my big fellah! I bet he would have a ball with all those littlins in the tank though... And I have to consider what I am going to do with them all when cycle is complete! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Edit - Question removed...found the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 Here is a quick update pic.... Now the waiting and testing game begins Still a lot to do...especially in regards to display...more rocks and driftwood already soaking/cleaning, intend to cover most of the weir with both.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 Just an update pic, still a long way to go....only been about 5 days or so into the cycle....but at least doing it with fish I have something to look at... Added an annubis which is attached to an urn, a little bit more driftwood (still got a couple of large ones soaking), I have to be very vigilant with the cycle now as I had no choice but to add my green sev to the tank....for both his sake and the RF Jewels fry....also added a 1300lph cannister, not an eheim, but will do the job for now.... additional driftwood and a few rocks will be covering the weir and cannister intake and return... Slowly getting there though Edit - Forgot to add...those tubes down the bottom will be (fingers crossed) used by the BN's and Peppermints as breeding tubes if needed...they are just PVC tubes coated with some aquarium safe silicin and then rolled in leftover pool filter sand to blend with the substrate...look the goods too I reckon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 9 days into the cycle... Have been using Nitrivec to assist with the cycle.... Ammonia has been constantly 0 for about 3 days now (highest it got to during intital cycle days was 0.25ppm), Nitrites starting showing around then as well and actually got up to 1ppm yesterday, so done a couple of additional water changes of approx 20% each one to get it down a bit, kept the nitrivec and prime both as per instructions also helped keep it low. Nitrites are now sitting on the 0.25ppm and under area, so doing about 2 to 3 water tests per day to really keep an eye on it and will keep water change at 20% every 2 days, unless another nitrite spike. Nitrates have been showing the last couple of days (this I am guesing is more due to the nitrivec and initial seeding) and between the 5 to 10ppm yesterday and today. Fish are doing well ( even the ones I dont want to keep...) Green Sev is swimming, eating, and showing off with gusto, so he appears to handling it all very well! heres another quick pic, not a lot of change to the last....but have added the second last piece of wood (mangrove root right hand corner) which hasnt covered as much of the weir as I would have liked, so may have to find some hardy longish weed to go behing the mangrove root and the weir. Only one more piece (which is soaking) left to be added, which is a long branch looking piece which will go along the back of the tank coming from behind the weed near the weir. Tested hardness, GH was <20 and KH was 10, considering it was town water only with no rain water added I was impressed, so I tested water straight out of the tap and the results were GH<20 and KH 20...so pretty impressed witht he local town water supply considering I am thinking of a pair or so of Mikrogeo's.... Had some hiccups with the cannister to start with (due more to not using them before ) but a big thanks to Colin (Colfish) for his assistance in that lil prob... All in all coming along quite well....! Cheers Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Thought I should do a bit of an update, heres a diary of the cycle and readings.... Day 1 of the cycle...added prescribed dose of Prime and also a dose of ammo boost. Ammonia was 0, as was Nitrite and nitrates, pH was 6.5 Day 2 and 3 were pretty much the same Day 4 - Ammonia .25ppl, nitrites and nitrates 0, ph 6.4ish, started adding Sera Nitrivec as per recomended instructions. Day 5 - same as above Day 6 - Ammonia 0! Nitrites .25ppl, nitrates 5ppm, this I was guessing was due to the seeding and Nitrivec I am guessing as I have never seen nitrates immediately after nitrites starting showing. Got a 1300lph cannister today, can never have too much filtration! Day 7 - Ammonia 0 Nitrites .25ppl, nitrates 5ppm pH 6.2 GH/KH test kit turned up, GH was <20 and KH was 10, considering it was town water only with no rain water added I was impressed, so I tested water straight out of the tap and the results were GH<20 and KH 20...so pretty happy witht he local town water supply considering I am thinking of a pair or so of Mikrogeo's....will still be setting up a 230 drum to collect rainwater for changes, even though there are no restrictions up my way, I should still do my part Day 8 - Ammonia 0 Nitrites 1ppl, nitrates between 5 & 10ppm, pH 6.2 - Done 2 x 20% water changes and added some additional prime to bring the nitrite spike down to .25ppl adjusted pH up. Added my mangrove root that was finally ready after weeks of soaking and scrubbing! (in front of weir) Day 9 - Ammonia 0 Nitrites 0.25ppl, nitrates between 5 & 10ppm pH 6.5. Fish are doing well ( even the ones I dont want to keep) Green Sev (George) is swimming, eating, and showing off with gusto, so he appears to handling it all very well Day 10 - Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0.25ppl, nitrates 10ppm pH 6.1, I added the last piece of driftwood today, the branch piece, not sure as yet if it looks a bit too much now....but it is growing on me. pH was down a little today from the 6.5 I want to keep it at, I am sure this is due to all the driftwood that is in there and the tannins still releasing a little. Should still be fine around the 6 mark...actually it is almost perfect for discus lol.....but all of the south americans I will be keeping are listed as requiring under pH 7.0...might still require a little buffering if it starts getting too low though. Strange there are testers for high range pH, but I havnt seen one for low range pH. Day 11 - Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0.25ppl, nitrates 10ppm pH 6.0...nothing added today, but will do a water change of 20% this afternoon if time permits. Day 12 - Ammonia 0, Nitrites (going by the colour) about 0.15ppl, nitrates 10ppm pH 6.0 Day 13 - Tank stable! Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0ppl, nitrates between 5 and 10ppm going by the colour, and the pH 6.0. Pretty impressed with the time taken, especially doing a live fish cycle! Day 14 - Still all stable - Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0ppl, nitrates 10ppm and pH 6.0 , picked up 2 Microgeophagus ramirezi today from the lfs, and can start removing all the unwanted fish used to cycle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xzbit Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Very nice looking tank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzy Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Any updates on this DW? Im sure everyone would like to see the latest pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share Posted March 2, 2007 Thanks xzbit... Huzzy, not a great deal in the last few days, I am waiting on a new glass lid for the sump to house the larger spinner I need to install to allow the full flow rate of the pump to be utilised. It should have been done unfortunately none of the local glass mobs can drill a 42mm hole, so it has to be done by some mob they use in Newcastle, wont be here until end of next week.... Tank has remained stable since day 13 of the cycle....just got a bit darker due to tannins still leaching a bit.... I am trying to source good info on flow/current direction to work best for the filtering to remove larger matter....and to help with as much flow running over the top of the sand substrate as well....those BN's can really drop waste when they have so much wood to eat lol Cheers Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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