Sump question

[huzzy]

Just curious as to your reasoning for not putting the pump in the sump?

Heat Transfer from Pump motor to water.

Good in winter, bad in summer

[EDIT]

P.S, this is my 300th post. And it looks like each one is better than the last :D

[/EDIT]

[CThompson]

spot on again Huzzy.

In the summer months, when our tank's temperature can sore, do you really want to add another heat source to your tank water?

Just touch a running in line pump, all that heat you feel on your hand will go directly into the tank water.

When the pump is in the sump itself, it stays nice and cool...hmmm I wonder why that is?

Kanned Guru, it is simply good practice. Sometimes due to space limitations, we can do nothing but put the pump in the sump. But that doesn’t change the rational behind putting it in line being better practice.

I should add, you still want to have the pump so it can self prime, but that is not hard to coordinate. Just make sure the pump sits on level with the sump base (or lower), and that the bulkhead through the sump is as low as you can go. This might mean you have to put an elbow on the sump side of the bulk head and swivel it so it points downwards. Make sure you put a strainer on the end - a bit of matrix can do wicked things to your pump.

Craig

[morpinsky]

there is a tool supplier near yagoona, they are cheap,have many sizes, and will mail them also.

[kanned_guru]

Alright thanks guys. Pains in the buM. Now I have to redesign my sump

While I am doing so, I have another question.....

Would it be prefereable to have 2 smaller pumps or one larger one?

I'm sure there are reasons in the favour of each, just curious to hear other peoples thoughts.

[huzzy]

2 Pumps

Pros: Redundency, if one fails. Multiple directions for water (ie: each end of the tank)

Downside: Less power efficient, more space needed and more hose needed. More heat generated if submerged in sump.

[kanned_guru]

What about in terms of lift and flow rate..... at 2m head would 1x 2000lph pump or 2x 1000lph pumps push more?

[huzzy]

1 x 2000 would push more at a given head height. different pumps have different impeller designs and perform differently, however due to the head height Vs output graph being exponential, a single pump will out perform 2 smaller.

That does not take into account different brands. IE: resun Vs iwaki. A more expensive pump will ALWAYS out perform a cheaper one in efficiency and/or output.

[kanned_guru]

I just noticed you're form Gosford huzzy. I spent a year living down in East Gosford last year, I was amazed at the prices of cichlids locally. Specifically how tropheus were cheaper than electric yellows.

[mark_82]

Anyone know the dimensions of a durso standpipe? I need to make sure there is enough room in the weir for the standpipe.

[huzzy]

Anyone know the dimensions of a durso standpipe? I need to make sure there is enough room in the weir for the standpipe.

25mm 32mm or 40mm pipe?

[mark_82]

32mm standpipe for a 25mm bulkhead fitting?

[huzzy]

Why go a larger standpipe than your bulkhead?

The limiting factor will be the bulkhead.

Anyways, Using 32mm T peice and 90degree the width of my standpipe is 14cm. i did notice that different brands of plumbing peices were slightly different, and it may be worth your while making the S.P before you design your weir. Anyways, you can cut down the T Peice and 90 Deg for a lesser width if you wanted to...just cut about 1/2 an inch off the joining sides, make sure you dont cut too much as the openings are flanged and you may end up not being able to fit your pipe in.

[mark_82]

Why go a larger standpipe than your bulkhead?

The limiting factor will be the bulkhead.

Thanks huzzy. If you have a look at http://www.rl180reef.com/180/pages/standpipe/construct.htm, he recommends using a 1¼ inch standpipe if you have a 1 inch bulkhead.

[huzzy]

And secondly, there is no advantage in 1½ inch over 1¼ inch PVC when dealing with a 1 inch bulkhead -- the bulkhead is the limiting factor.

If you have a 1 inch bulkhead the standpipe needs to be larger than the bulkhead to work correctly. I get a lot of e-mail questions on why this is. Honestly, I'm not sure. Typically if you use 1 inch PVC pipe on a 1 inch bulkhead you get poor results. (Some exceptions with smaller low flow tanks.) Take my word on it and use 1¼ inch PVC pipe

Your 100% correct, and this guy would know a lot more than I. Take his advise

I have seen a couple of 1" stands working what appeared to be fine, no noise and correct flow, however if he says 1.25" then go that.

Good luck!

[CThompson]

All plumbing fittings can be lined up to equal the inlet and outlet size of the pump (take note sometimes these can be different on the one pump).

However, with the plumbing size which is gravity fed to a sump, and the water "pumped" out, what size do these plumbing fitting have to be? Bearing in mind it is a gravity outlet from a tank that has to be able to keep up with a powered outlet from a sump.

The problem here is, are we making a bottle-neck at the gravity outlet (Durso stand pipe) if we make the Durso the same size as the pump inlet?

Remember what I said about having the tank holes drilled and bulkheaded out with the next size plumbing size UP from what is dictated by the inlet/outlet size of the pump (then plumbed down through the bulkhead)? This is where this comes into play. Go out and buy the plumbing pieces for a Durso, but buy the parts needed to fit out a Durso for plumbing sizes the next size UP from the pump inlet. Put it together and then measure it. That way if a Durso made from plumbing the same size as the pump is too small, you can change the plumbing through the bulkhead (note I didn't say the bulkhead), to equal plumbing the next size up from the pump.

If you are having two weirs, I expect that Durso plumbing the same size as the pump would be okay. But if you are going for one weir (one outlet to the sump), perhaps a Durso made from plumbing fittings the next size up from the pump may be needed.

Unless there is someone with an Oceanrunner pumping a sump with weired tank outleted via a Durso can inform of what plumbing size is needed to allow the Durso to work okay can put in their comments, this is the way I'd go.

I should also point out the bulkhead fittings itself has a footprint that needs to be catered for in the footprint size of the weir (i.e. it has to fit inside at the bottom of the weir). When I have taken plans for a tank to be made, I have produced a full size template of the tank's footprint, marking on exactly where I want the hole drilled, how much room the bulkheads footprint takes up, and in your case with a weir, where you want the weir placed in the bottom of the tank.

Craig

[CThompson]

And secondly, there is no advantage in 1½ inch over 1¼ inch PVC when dealing with a 1 inch bulkhead -- the bulkhead is the limiting factor.

If you have a 1 inch bulkhead the standpipe needs to be larger than the bulkhead to work correctly. I get a lot of e-mail questions on why this is. Honestly, I'm not sure. Typically if you use 1 inch PVC pipe on a 1 inch bulkhead you get poor results. (Some exceptions with smaller low flow tanks.) Take my word on it and use 1¼ inch PVC pipe

Your 100% correct, and this guy would know a lot more than I. Take his advise

I have seen a couple of 1" stands working what appeared to be fine, no noise and correct flow, however if he says 1.25" then go that.

Good luck!

The reason you need the next size up in plumbing as mentioned above, is that it is gravity fed standpipe, and powered outlet via a pump. If your pump is not very strong (i.e. "smaller low flow tanks") it will be easier for a gravity fed system to keep up with the pump. The bulkhead is the limiting factor (as he says), there is no point having a larger diameter pipe going through a smaller diameter bulkhead as this just produces a bottle-neck.

Water is tricky stuff at times, and there is a bit of a venturi affecting the water going through a bottle neck, as best as I can understand this will be dictated by how long the restriction happens to be. That is, as the water goes through the restriction, it speeds up, and this increased speed = the same volume of water if it was moving slower going through no bottle-neck. The longer this restriction happens to be, the more friction from the pipes ID will slow the water down until it eventually = normal water flow through pipe with said diameter. As I say, water can be tricky stuff, so the best us lay-men can hope to plan for and have it working is to not have any bottle-necks/restrictions.

If you want to buy your plumbing fitting the best stocked place for all you need will be StGeorge landscapes 9529-6512 (John) 238 Rocky Point Rd, Ramsgate.