Bottom up or top down policy

[wui39]

Hi guys

This poll/topic has been inspired by a member on another forum (I won't mention specifically who or where) who has just decided to enter the hobby.

Since I started fish keeping, the advice from books, shops and other fish keepers, has always been to start with the hardiest and most commonly available fish before moving yourself on towards more exotic and finicky fish. With most of the fellow fish keepers I have met, this seems to be the most common way of going about it.

With the introduction of the internet and a whole wealth of information the was previously unavailable (forums like this one being a case), is it possible or wise that with enough money, time and equipment you can begin keeping the most expensive and hard to keep fish right at the start?

Your opinions are welcome.....perhaps this will be the future of fish keeping and we'll have to start treating newbies with a little more respect since they will probably get their fish breeding before us!

[Bruce]

I personally think the good old fashioned way is the best. Sometimes no matter how much research you do nothing can prepare you for the actual fish. They may not always act how it is recorded on the web or on paper. By keeping easier fish and slowly advancing they will build their knowledge from first hand experience so that they can learn to better look after more tricky and difficult fish.

That's just my 2cents.

Bruce

[Camo]

Hey

The old way i believe. I think we all started out with convicts or kribs at one stage. I know i would be mad to jump into something like wild caught fish for your first go IMO.

Cheers

Cameron

[timmy2422]

Bottom up for me, im still working my way up atm, cant afford rarer fish only being 16 and currently unemployed

[Josh]

I think it hard to say hard fish/ rare fish is starting at the top. I could never breed electric yellows and only started breeding brisltenose a few months ago and yet have been keeping fish for years now. I have found it easier to breed the tricky extreamly aggro mbuna and have no troubles breeding Tropheus but cant breed the basics.

Josh

[MikeWs Fish]

IMO definitely start with the $1/cm fish and move on from there depending on taste and your confidence.

I started with 1 tank and everything in that tank died, several times over, before I could keep anything alive.

I bought some Pseudotropheus aurora and finally had some luck with them. I liked the behavour of the pseudos, never a dull moment and got more tanks and more species of mbuna.

I think I can safely say now that I pass at breeding mbuna now

I saw BN and peppermints around which caught my eye, especially the peppermints and tried to breed them. Got to the stage of breeding them and moved on to trying to breed other catfish.

I still have fears of keeping tanganyikans and lack of space for them but when I get some longer tanks I will definitely try to breed some duboisi or soemthing like that. Tanganyikan mbuna lol. would be interesting

My recent failure is trying to keep Apsito sp. inka 50 in a 2ft tank with about 50 pepermint BN fry. Saw the male swimming upside down this time

I've only been breeding fish for 2 years or so and so far I can see my interests mutating all the time. So many beautiful fish... so many different families... so much interesting behavour..... so little tank space...

[YeW]

Hi All -

I started with hard (Apistos) and went to easy. It's a common route via planted aquariums or community tanks.

I think virtually all rift lake cichlids (excluding: Tropheus and Cyps) fall into the very easy basket. I wouldnt go back to hard - it's too much work (for me) and too much heartbreak.

One should not mistake "rare" for "expensive" in the fish hobby. Rare sometimes equals desirable - sometimes it doesnt.

[AdamR]

Im in the same boat as Yew. I began with apistos, which would tend to be difficult and I did lose lots of them, but they bred very early for me. It was the breeding of these fish that began my addiction. From there Ive moved to easier fish. As Yew said, too much heartbreak.

I do not mind what people begin with and with the available information they should be able to keep whatever they want with success if they have done their homework. CHances are if they havent done their homework for harder/expensive fish, they will be unlikely to do it for cheaper fish.

Im a fence sitter!

Adam

[Matthew]

G'day Wui

I will also heartily support Dave on this one, never mistake $$$ and the degree of difficulty. This may seem odd but there are many odd things in this hobby

I would recommend that people start with the so called easier fish (not always the cheapest). The reason is simple. They are far more forgiving and you learn on these fish. You learn about fish behaviour, about water, temperature, food requirements, disease, filtration, water changes etc etc.....

Whereas if you start out with hard fish and then you muck it up, they just die.

A lot of information is available now, in books and online but I assure you there is no substitute for experience.

cya

[wui39]

good responses so far guys, looks like the old theory is still going strong.

no hard does not always equal hig price or vice versa but sometimes can be a rough indication.

[Ash]

I started at the bottom & haven't left!

[Peter_Gun_Riff]

One should not mistake "rare" for "expensive" in the fish hobby. Rare sometimes equals desirable - sometimes it doesnt.

very true dave many species of fish are rare for the reason that knowone wants to keep them for some reason i.e hard to keep and boring colour etc

id say i started mid range with a single red oscar hardy fish but dirty which required lots of water changes in the small 2ft tank i then went to trying to get a pair then once i was breeding them but only getting as far as the egg stage i gave up sold up shop and went to peacoks cause of there beautiful colours blue and orange "ngara flametail" had them breeding with a colony of protomelas then sold up and went to large americans jags, RDs, umbees kept them for years bred the jags then gave up the hobby altogether and went to herps lol

wouldnt start with hard to keep snakes etc thats for sure even if it was possible i.e green tree pythons and the elapids

[wormboy]

Start at the bottom for sure!

I have always felt that confidence is a big part of keeping fish alive so if you start with the difficult and have no success then I think you are more likely to not try again.

However, if you start with the old bulletproofs and have success and then progress to the harder ones, you are more likely to persevere through the hard times.

Note I say harder (more fineky) and easier (bulletproof) NOT expensive vs cheap. Not all expensive are fish are automatically difficult to keep, take plecos for example.

-Mat-

[Citypainter]

Sart with research.

Then spend your cash on what you feel you can look after well and enjoy.

Accept the responsibility to make thier living conditions a high standard and then you will enjoy viewing high quality fish. Wherther it be guppys or Datnoids thats your choice but make sure you are up to looking after your purchase before you make your purchase.

[CThompson]

With the introduction of the internet and a whole wealth of information the was previously unavailable (forums like this one being a case), is it possible or wise that with enough money, time and equipment you can begin keeping the most expensive and hard to keep fish right at the start?

It will come down to the individuals’ intelligence and aptitude to take on the information needed to keep fish alive (both are not necessarily connected).

I work with scientists (physicists to biologists), people with more letters attached to their name than I have letters in my name, and with people who are so capable they can build and run partial accelerators to world class standards. A number of them started their own tank over the years and have come to me for help, and they still do contrary to advice given directly to direct questions. How successful would they be if all they had was the plethora of information often contradictory out there?

They have success eventually, but even with information given first hand, and starting with hardy fish, how would these people go if they only had the internet to go by? It would be VERY confusing. Not impossible I might add.

If you have the motivation to take on the information, the knowledge to know you have to seek it out, and the ability to sort it and use it for your individual circumstance the information you need, then all the information is out there for you to become a success even with delicate fish. Can everyone do it?

It is an information hobby, and the information is out there, but even after being captivated by our hobby for 30 years, I’m personally still learning.

I think that it is possible for a beginner to have success from the outset with "enough money, time and equipment", but one of the pieces of information that you will learn if you are seeking information on how to keep fish alive, is not to start from the top. I would say the original motivation for such a question is a lack of patience, and over confidence, neither are conducive to successfully maintaining an aquarium in the long term.

I think that it is possible, but success will depend on individuals’ ability.

Craig