lee427 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 i was just reading the guidelines of the classifieds and i was just wondering why it is that you discourage the use of feeder fish when sometimes thats all some cichlids eat in the wild example frontosa .i understand the risk of disease and i have mine in quarantine for at least a week in a tank with multicure but is this topic ok for discussion.I also understand the reason why you don't allow them sold in the classifieds but my point is that its what they eat in the wild. Isn't it cruel also to deprive them of there natural diet and its nature its marbo its the vibe yeah its just the vibe of it really. If you don't want this topic discussed delete it. I'm not trying to have a shot at the ace moderators i'm just wondering why this is. thanks Lee427 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Well I suppose we don't like to encourage the use of feeder fish because it can be an easy way to spread disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 IIRC it's illegal to feed one live vertibrate to another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee427 Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 IIRC it's illegal to feed one live vertibrate to another ← yeah understandable wui. but what does irrc stand for ash. its sort of weird that you can feed them invertibrates but not vertibrates.I find it really weird that its illegal.but if thats true how come you can put a pilchard on the end of a fishing line wouldnt that be the same thing .like i understand that you guys dont make the rules but does anyone see my point. anyway thanks for the help. cheers lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 In this age of enightenment and goodwill to all, there are those who campaign loudly at the mention of cruelty to animals. Yes it's a way that disease spreads more easily than processed or packaged foods, but our stance was brough on more by the wishes of a few individuals who weren't prepared to tolerate the feeding of a live animal to another. It's not worth our volunteered time or considerable effort to argue with those said people (and I'm not saying their point of view is right or wrong in my eyes). You'd be surprised how many people are against the practice Hope that explains it well enough. It's not a conspiracy or a belief held by the admin / mods here. It's simply a way to keep the masses happy (or happier ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Isn't it cruel also to deprive them of there natural diet It could also be seen as cruel to take the fish from their natural environment and keep them in glass cages With the quality foods that are available these days, it really shouldnt be neccesary to feed live fish to other fish, but it is, at times part of this hobby whether its liked or not Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Personally I wouldn't feed live feeders to any of my fish but like Vis said I wouldn't go out and try and stop people from making the choice and if that is the mods choice I suppose we have to live with it unless enough people on the board forces the change. My personal reason as to why I wouldn't feed feeders is this: If we were really going to replicate everything as it is in the wild, we would have to feed feeders that are found naturally and have the tank stocked with other fish that may or may not use our "favourite" fish as food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Lee - IIRC = If I Remember Correctly. It's cause they are live when being eaten, theoretically if you euthanaised them first no-one would really care (apparently) - but in reality as if fish caught in trawlers have a kinder death than a poor guppy at the hands of a RD. PC world gone mad yet again IMO. I don't personally set out to use feeders btw, but if another fish eats excess fry/juvies it isn't my fault is it? wui - if I ever get a pond for dovii, I won't hesitate populating it with convicts first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ash - if i ever get a pond for convicts, I won't hesitate to stock it with dovii either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limegirl Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Another thought on the subject - I know that most of the feeder fish I see sold in shops are Firetail Gudgeons, an Australian native wuite plentiful and easy to collect in a lot of waterways ... Does it worry anyone that people are going out and scooping large volumes of native fish from a waterway? What about the ecological impact of the supply of these fish? Pees me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorman Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Actually Limegirl For one to recieve the licence that allows them to sell Native fish(Firetail gudgeons) they must be breeding these fish. The 1 main supplier for Queensland breeds his own in his personal dams just for this purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 IIRC it's illegal to feed one live vertibrate to another ← Second thought, this can't be the case as most LFS sell "feeders" don't they? If it was illegal they'd couldn't. So perhaps it's just tree hugging hippies at the RSPCA that freak out about it? Maybe it's illegal in England or somewhere? I'm sure I've heard the term "illegal" and "feeders" in the same sentence somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.d.m Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 i dont agree or disagree with the ethics involved in feeding live animals but something ive never forgotten was the feeding of a goldfish to a 30cm clown triggerfish ,the guy who did this was the owner of a lfs not a million miles from me,i can only describe him as a knowall , stupid and a generally unpleasant individual who has left the lfs trade much to a lot of peoples relief, suffice to say this person ignoring all the frozen and dry food in the shop chucked the goldfish in the tank, the clown trigger thought all his christmasses had come at once ,shot across the tank and promptly choked to death on the unfortunate goldfish after seeing this i vowed never to feed live fish to any of mine,sure fry have gone missing after not netting them all but never feeders as for the legality of live food the nsw government in a certain tertiary establishment feed baby mice to funnel web spiders and i doubt if theres a zoo anywhere in the world(including nsw) which dosnt breed all sorts of animals as food for its exhibits, the ethics of this will never cease to be the subject of lively discussion but i for one would rather be a fish eaten by another than a rabbit in a laboratory having cosmetics dripped in its eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 *snip* but i for one would rather be a fish eaten by another than a rabbit in a laboratory having cosmetics dripped in its eyes ← My thoughts exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 I recently went to Dubbo zoo and the cheetah keeper said that they had to feed all animals dead animals. He suggested it was for legal reasons although he didn't state it explicitly. They also said the main meat they feed the animals was kangaroo. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannula Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I recently bought four firetail gudgeons for 80c each for a two footer with msytery snails in it currently. I love Australian natives, I also have empires and some rainbows. I don't understand why they are not keep as display fish by more aquarists in Australia. Even overseas our small natives are used as feeders, I think it was Deuce Bigalow that an Australian rainbow was given to a lion fish. On the topic of feeders I use to feed them to my fish and if I found another creek infested with Gambusia I'd do the same again, Australian natives get too much of a bad rap and I hate that some species numbers are dwindling. Just my POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.d.m Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 adam, i dont doubt that large predators would be fed dead food ,i would imagine a party of school chidren coming to the cheetah enclosure at feeding time to see a terrified kangaroo being chased may cause some psychological damage, but i would think that certain reptiles and amphibians would definately be fed live food at least initially, the tertiary education establishment mentioned in my post(i cant name it because a relative works there) definately feed live mice to funnel web spiders evidently there was no legal bar to doing so but had to be approved by their "animal ethics comittee" i think a lot of people get confused with the feeding of live animals to another, with the setting of one animal on another for sport, ferrreting ,falconry ,fox hunting etc which is definately illegal unfortunately the greyhound racing industry is rife with it but im sure no one is ever convicted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reillin Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 There is no law against it that I am aware of. I went to the Sydney Aquarium and they had empire gudgeons swimming around..in a tank with a big murray cod. I think feed if you must. However, why risk on feeder fish on your $250+ fish? However should you raise your feeder fish in pristine conditions, then I do not see any problems. I think the process of raising your own food can bring into view a lot about sustainability. We breed chickens in cramp conditions everyday for food. They are slaughtered at 7 weeks old. Chickens are kept in a cage for 12 months, laying continuously then slaughtered. Trees are chopped down by the extinction-rate so we can have toilet paper. We're making higher forms of life extinct on this planet via fossil fuel so we can keep oursleves warm, get a hot shower. Maybe if we stopped feeding live fish we can save the chickens, grow back the trees, and cool this planet down. We live in a world so ignorant and with the attitude "if I don't know, then it doesn't concern me." Imagine if they threw a kangaroo carcass to the lions. I do not think so. They will probably behead it, butcher it into proper proportions so that it will look esthetically sound. Most people probably think they farm veal in nice slices and steak doesn't make a baby "moooo" Woah, sorry, went of in a tangent slightly. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkap Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 We live in a world so ignorant and with the attitude "if I don't know, then it doesn't concern me." Imagine if they threw a kangaroo carcass to the lions. I do not think so. They will probably behead it, butcher it into proper proportions so that it will look esthetically sound. Most people probably think they farm veal in nice slices and steak doesn't make a baby "moooo" ← Actually Reillin, most zoos cut up the carcasses so they can properly manage the food and dietry intake of the animals in their care. Also, most of the feeding takes place away from public view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reillin Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Yup, away from public view. People have to realise that meat comes from dead animals, which were once alive (I hope). Imagine if the act of eating itself is one day considered ill-mannered. "Ewww gross, that being is ingesting something!" We all need to join that lady's cult that believe we can be alive and well merely on air! Interesting fact, because they isolated her, and she gradually grew thinner and thinner so the doctors stopped it. Apparently Mrs "I only need to eat air" was scoffing her face while her disciples were trying to think meaty thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Yup, away from public view. People have to realise that meat comes from dead animals, which were once alive (I hope). Imagine if the act of eating itself is one day considered ill-mannered. "Ewww gross, that being is ingesting something!" We all need to join that lady's cult that believe we can be alive and well merely on air! Interesting fact, because they isolated her, and she gradually grew thinner and thinner so the doctors stopped it. Apparently Mrs "I only need to eat air" was scoffing her face while her disciples were trying to think meaty thought. ← Is she the same one who thought electricity was evil????? I think Reillin has raised a good point why risk a valuable fish for the sake of a feeder. If a fish can be trained to take prepared food it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vwboy53 Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Just to throw a spanner in the works, I went to Taronga Zoo today and saw they have live feeder fish in their tanks (enclosures), they had some in the the platypus, and one of the other water exhibits. On a side note, in with the fishing cats, they had some barbs, tetras, and platys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr troph Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Just to throw a spanner in the works, I went to Taronga Zoo today and saw they have live feeder fish in their tanks (enclosures), they had some in the the platypus, and one of the other water exhibits. On a side note, in with the fishing cats, they had some barbs, tetras, and platys. ← Cool that would be awsome watching them chow down on some feeders I really don't see what the fuss is about like Lee said its nature. And if animals are going to be keeped in captivity its best to keep them in as close to there natural habitat as possible An opinion is just like an ahole everyones got one and there mine Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee427 Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 Just to throw a spanner in the works, I went to Taronga Zoo today and saw they have live feeder fish in their tanks (enclosures), they had some in the the platypus, and one of the other water exhibits. On a side note, in with the fishing cats, they had some barbs, tetras, and platys. ← Cool that would be awsome watching them chow down on some feeders I really don't see what the fuss is about like Lee said its nature. And if animals are going to be keeped in captivity its best to keep them in as close to there natural habitat as possible An opinion is just like an ahole everyones got one and there mine Todd ← true that .If you go to the sydney aquarium they have the same sort of set up with feeder fish and shrimp to feed the platypus. theres my point of view again thanks for all the feed back guys keep it coming what ever your opinion cheers Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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