Ducksta Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Well I have never had anything like this happen before. Got a message at about quarter to 5, 5 small bristlenose are dead in a fry tank, no problems I said, can you please take them out and toss them onto the vege patch. No worries, done. 38 minutes later "John, about half the fish in that tank are floating" "Half???!!!" "Realistically 30-40%" "%^&^$% $*&^$% $(*&%$% @)(*@&!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (Should be noted here, tank contained 200+ bristlenose fry between 2-4cm and 150+ demasoni @ 2-3cm. Also of note is that these were my last demasoni as I sold my colony and intended to breed from a large next generation colony!!! ) "Should I do anything?" "What about other tanks?" "Some of the pointy head babies (Dimi. comp 'Chizumulu' @2-4.5cm) are gasping and a couple look near dead" "What temperature are the tanks" "Ummm...." ...... (demasoni tank 35, Dimi tank 33) The rest is not appropriate for general discussion. I left work 20 minutes later, took about 50 minutes to get home. What remains? About 6-8 demasoni, 30 bristlenose (so 90% casualty at an estimate) Too many to count Dimi's alive but looking at about 40 dead OK the kicker - demasoni tank - unheated - 240 litres!!! Picked up 13 degrees in a day!!! Dimi tank heated - 200 litres. Other tanks range from 50-350 litres, no other tanks above 27??? There is NO reason I can imagine for those 2 tanks to heat up quicker than other tanks. It defies logic how other tanks in the same vicinity would be several degrees cooler. I am shattered - not from the financial angle that many may expect but that I have NEVER experienced anything like this - I have never had mass wipe outs. I have never had tanks in this room heat up like this (28 was the hottest a tank got in the last 2 years, even in the peak of summer!) Just as strange - the adult tanks, I was freaking out big time, checking them, heaps of mouthfuls (except new tropheus, which thankfully are looking great and their tank is stable maxing out at 27) Got to be honest - pretty close to tossing it all in and buying a dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 bad luck mate....unheated you say...what is the airflow like through the room? perhaps a hot pocket of air is trapped there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 Thats definately a possibility I suppose - what I don't understand is that the 2 tanks which incurred losses aren't directly near each other, and tanks in between them were OK... My brothers GF decided to make me feel better and counted 200 dead demasoni before giving up the count. And thats after birds had their pick at them for over an hour! I am starting to wonder now though if it was heat at all as my arms (which were submerged while I netted bodies and removed rocks and did an 80% water change) are itchy as all hell, and my right arm looks to be developing a rash. I hope nothing was sprayed in or near my room today!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Even a 33 degree tank should not be a death trap as long as you have a heap of surface water movement (see: craploads of air bubbles). Having more air than you think you need and leaving a lid off each tank on really hot days SHOULD cool the water sufficiently (or at least stop dead spots in the water) and keep oxygen exchange happening. It's not the heat so much that kills them, as the lack of oxygen in a hot tank. I've had two identically stocked shellie tanks before in the same room, one with a big airstone and one where the only surface movement was where the water poured into the tank. Guess which one crashed on a hot day? Since then, I've always erred on the side of too much air and have survived many hot days where the tank gets over 30. Sorry to hear about your bad luck, especially with your great quality demasoni. On a more positive note, hopefully I'll have my coolroom shed operational before the end of the month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Oh and by the way, Staffies are great dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 All my filtration is run on air (except in a few adult tanks I have air plus Aquaclears) The surface of these tanks is literally wavy - if I fill the tank up an inch below the rim and turn the filtration on, waves would crash over the sides. Not saying lack of breathable oxygen didn't contribute but I can't imagine any more agitation in a tank full of fry. But yes, I think some crazy combination of things happened and unfortunately not being here at the time meant it was much more damaging than it may have been if I was here to deal with it. What is concerning me now that I am analysing it more and more - is it usual for a tank to go from no death to almost total wipe out in under 2 hours? I know the fish dying would contribute to polution increasing in the tank. There was also no powerful odours of decomposing fish. Is it me or is the time frame absolutely incredible? ps. Cheers Andy, I've wanted a Staffy for well over 5 years now, but mum's rule has been no dog while I have fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 is it usual for a tank to go from no death to almost total wipe out in under 2 hours? Sounds like a very rapid rise in temperature (and/or poisoning) to me. Very sorry to hear John Andrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Ducky how about you invest in an airconditioner. I just know some one that might have one going very cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrdog Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 That sux mate . I'm really sorry this has happened. I hope you find the reason for this, put it behind you and bounce back. Jamie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Staffies? - too much terrier for me. in all seriousness John, sorry to hear about your losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoges Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 That's terrible new mate! I almost feel like I've jinxed you - after all our talk about temperature changes in ponds! Can you get a water sample tested at a lab for traces of chemicals - see if that gives you any insight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Wombat Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Sorry to hear about that Ducky. Sounds very strange to me. How is that rash looking? Strange to have such a reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 G'day John Ok it is time to look at everything it could possibly be, check and double check just to be sure. Simple things can make a big difference E.g. are the thermometers accurate in both the hotter and cooler tanks? Are the tanks in the sun? Are the tanks able to receive conducted heat? E.g. via their stand Are some tanks in a drafty region and these tanks not? Are some tanks nearest to a hot wall or appliance or something? Did both of these tanks have air powered filtration? If so is the inlet for that pump(s) receiving hotter air? Are these two tanks receiving hotter air due to some sort of hotter/overheating air pump? The tanks had to receive their heat in one of these ways, convected, conducted or radiated. So perhaps viewing them from this perspective may assist you in discovering the heat source. What poisons are around? What has been used lately at your home? What have your neighbours used? Weed spray the garden beds lately? Baygon? This does not sound like a promising line to follow but you never know. Are the fish that remain, normal? What effects have they sustained? Are they pushing heaps of water through their gills? You mentioned an itchy feeling on your hand. Are the fish scratching themselves? What is their behaviour like? What else can you see them doing? The dying fish will cause an ammonia spike. If the ammonia level gets too high then the fish will start dying due to toxic levels of ammonia. This problem very rapidly escalates especially when large fish die. Can anyone offer up some reason why this itchy feeling may have occurred? Thats about all I can think of at the moment. Let us know what else you discover. Best of luck and keep ya chin up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 That really sucks man! Something really funky is going on, I hope you figure out what it is so it can be prevented in the future The skin irritation is a weird one, I'd be looking at polutants rather than blaming heat/oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Sorry to hear about your losses Ducky what a rollacoaster ride fish keeping can be. The start of the week stoked with the cherry spots end of the week disaster. Sorry man cheers rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[RK] Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Damn. sorry to hear that. Now im twice as paranoid about my tank :\ Last night it got up to 31.7°C. And i dont really want to put an airstone in it, cause its a planted tank and that would diminish the CO2 i pump into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novafishy Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I think you should put an airstone in there, as I would rather lose CO2, than lose oxygen, which might in turn kill your fish. Plants can survive without CO2 for a while, dont you worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 Next day, very slightly clearer head update. My brain was going a million miles a minute last night, thinking about it, most of it was illogical rubbish I chose not to do any water tests yesterday. All those dead fish would bugger up the readings something terrible anyway, plus I just wanted to change all the water ASAP, not play with it. I think that the most logical explanation is: heat, coupled with ammonia (decaying waste) from the first few dead fish just grew exponentially causing the very quick collapse of a 'healthy' tank. Tests this morning revealed a healthy tank, pH on the money, Ammonia and nitrite 0 - so I guess the filters didn't crash. The layout of the room - these tanks wouldn't recieve any sun. There is a single airpump and I couldn't detect any difference in the temperature of the airline going to different tanks. The tanks that got hot were both against an 'outside wall'. Other tanks were against the same wall but didn't heat up. Other tanks were on the opposite wall and would recieve some direct morning sun, but also were only 26-27 when I checked. One tank on a pine stand (lids), one tank (actually a fibreglass tub) on the floor (no lids). Fish behaviour seemed normal this morning although I fished a couple more bodies out. Assume too far gone before my intervention, and am not concerning myself further at this stage. The irritation to my arms lasted about 6-8 hours. I wonder if ammonia or any other naturally occurring waste product can cause such an irritation? Fish did not seem irritated or agitated this morning. Haven't ruled out some kind of poison contributing (But I'll never know, so I just wont think about it), nothing used at home in a long while, but who knows what the neigbours are doing. I am a bit numb about it - everyone at home was talking about their $$$ value last night, I don't care much about that. I'm going to have to start again with demasoni lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTR73 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Extremely sorry to hear of your losses. I guess at least it shows how things can escalate sometimes. Maybe look on the bright side mate: you can now think about how you're going to replace your losses in those two tanks - explore new bloodlines for your demasoni, possibility of new breeds or something totally different you've always wanted. Always a bright side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scienceman Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Condolences for your losses John. We can never control everything all of the time - but we try anyway! As said previously, retail therapy of the fishy kind will help you feel heaps better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 everyone at home was talking about their $$$ value last night I know where you are coming from John...$$$ rarely enters my head when I hear of these things happening. More the thought of the tragic life loss. Hope time helps you heal and things start happening in a positive direction. Andrea PS> Damn not getting those demasoni from Gav for myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[RK] Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Temperature: 32.9°C :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 I think this goes out as a warning - it's going to be a long hot summer!!! It's only the 3rd of November after all!!! Everybody dedicate a shelf of freezer space to freezing ice packs to float in tanks on especially hot days merjo, I think with the demasoni, they were a talking point for everyone who saw them, even my non-fishy family. And when they find out how much they sell for, well they trip out even more. So for them I think the initial shock was like me, just a sense of wasted life, but they just moved on to realising how much money (potential money) was lost a bit quicker than I started thinking about it. (This is what prompted my brothers GF to start counting bodies) My plans for a super colony of fish I bred myself are somewhat washed up, unless I have an amazing female ratio in the few fish I have left and build the colony up another generation Tropheus style. Then of course there is the possibility of someone selling me my adults back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Sorry to hear about your loss. Thanks for warning us about potential hazards for our fish. I for one have started using those 15cm diameter fans blown along the surface water to help lower the temperature. Only drawback to this method is water loss to evaporation. Please keep us informed about what further discoveries u may find of potential causes. Look on the bright side, all your Bulu points are OK! U could always devote more tanks to breeding top quality tropheus!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatoscarlover Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I'm going to have to start again with demasoni lines Considering how many freebies you gave me mate im happy to fix you back up once these guys start breeding. Might be a while but its your bloodline and i owe you a favor anyways. Sorry to hear about it all and i hope you can work out what it was... Cheers mate Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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