cichlidbreeder Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 In my opinion I don't think Frontosa owners should be worried about a price drop for the next 2-5yrs. The new imports will be coming into the country at 12cm so will take 1-1.5yrs before mature enough to breed also wild caught females will find it hard to breed in tank conditions due to water pressures. Also shops are going to need burundi and Kigoma fry till then for sales. so would expect to see the new types of fry in fish shops for quite a while yet. if u saw any it would be either wild caught or tank breed overseas. Maybe some breeders already have them and i think if they did would only expect to be the blue Zaire variants. I would like to hear of anyone elses opinion Thanks Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 With the large importers now being able to buy cheap-as-chips 6 and 7 bars fronnies from Asia, I can see stores being flooded with cheap fish. I cant say what the quality will be like, but I believe the days of paying $50 for 7 bar fry are gone. No-one really know what the price of the varients will be yet. I would say that there will be a high demand for any fry so that will keep prices high for a long time IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 6 bars are cheap in Asia. 7bars are not cheap, and almost non-exisitent in countries that mass produce these fish cheaply like Malaysia and Indonesia. U can discount Singapore because there is no real breeding in numbers there. Biggest producer of Fronts in Asia is Taiwan. U get 6 bars on one side and 5 bars on the other on one fish and 5bars on one side and 7bars on the other for the mass produced fish. That said, there are smaller and more deligent farms, but these do not produce fish for a penny. So while the new rules stipulate 12cm and over, LARGE breeding size F2 fronts can be imported for sale at $200 or less. blue Zaire "Kapampa" on latest quote could hit Aust at 15cm for $250 Blue Zaire "Moba" at 12-15cm for $300 "Mpimbwe" considerably cheaper at $190. so large Frontosa prices will certainly drop. Biggest worry is that the lines will all be muddled up by hobbyist. With the large importers now being able to buy cheap-as-chips 6 and 7 bars fronnies from Asia, I can see stores being flooded with cheap fish. I cant say what the quality will be like, but I believe the days of paying $50 for 7 bar fry are gone. No-one really know what the price of the varients will be yet. I would say that there will be a high demand for any fry so that will keep prices high for a long time IMO ← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinky Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 So while the new rules stipulate 12cm and over, LARGE breeding size F2 fronts can be imported for sale at $200 or less. blue Zaire "Kapampa" on latest quote could hit Aust at 15cm for $250 Blue Zaire "Moba" at 12-15cm for $300 "Mpimbwe" considerably cheaper at $190. hey kevkoi, those prices you hav just quoted, are they retail prices or are they wholesale prices. thanx mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burek Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 IMO the price of our current 6 bars will drop, because people will be buying all the new imported fronties, so you could expect a price drop on our current 6 bars. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinky Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 i reckon all the front varieties will be cheap, as danielk stated, people will be looking for the new varieties, therefore we will most likely see a price drop in our current 6 and7 bars. and for the new imported varieties, IMHO i believe the baby fronts, when people start breeding them, wont fetch for much either, cause im pretty sure there will be heaps of entreprenial cichlidnerds(eg. me...lol) gettin there hands on these new front varities and eventually flooding the market with heaps babies. and the only varieties that i believe that will most likely be able to hold there value for long is the blue zaire varieties, because they are reportedly harder to breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I think speculating on the price is a waste of time. Its better to wait until September then I will give you a price on everything that they catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burek Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Lol your right, cant wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianniz Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I will sum it up for everyone Hobbiest are like little kids, we want newer and better things True that current Frontosa has its uniqueness, however look at bristlenose vs peppermint comparison. If you drop the prices of peppermint to similar price of normal bristlenose, how many will choose normal bristlenose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Gianniz I can't see your point?? No matter how many new fronts come in, I can't see a 'flooded' marketplace happening. Sure a price drop will happen, but that is expected anyway with fish. Our 6 bars have been here 2 decades? at least? And people still pay $20 for quality 4cm fish through other hobbiests. not even thinking of retail prices here. Flooding a frontosa market would be horrifically difficult to do given their breeding behaviour. They aren't Labidochromis you know : ps. I would choose normal BN as they are better algae cleaning machines IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burek Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 I doubt peppermint BN will drop as low as normal BN.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 I wonder if anybody once thought that about "Hongi" Daniel what makes you think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burek Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Sorry shoudive put IMO Because peppermints are expensive like 10$ a cm?? i dont think they will drop to as low as 1$ a cm? I am probally wrong but hey, im learning.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeWs Fish Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Just the normal supply and demand go. I'd draw you guys the diagram but dont have the facilities. Will people pay the same price for pepps as normail BN? Who knows? Would people sell them at $1/cm knowing that they look alot better than a normal or orange spot or albino B/N (IMO). Will people sell a zebra pleco at $ 0.50c/cm because they dont chow as much algae as a common BN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Supply and demand Dan - it wont be long (in relative terms) before supply catches or outruns demand. Just as it does with most species which are new to Australia but easily bred in good numbers. It wont happen tomorrow, and buying them now wont be a huge hit to the hip pocket, but what was the going rate 12 months ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burek Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Ok, That cleared my question up. Thxs Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeWs Fish Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Ive always been under the impression that fronnies are not easy to breed and they generally dont hold their eggs as well as other aqaurium bred species. It also might be hard to get the new wildcaught stock breeding in aqauriums. I reckon the price will hold firm. I notice that there are alot of FS: sixers around ATM because people are expecting the market to drop. I think it will stabilise again when the new fronnies come in. IMO Oz fronnies will go at $5/cm or just under. Ancistrus dolichopterus (peppermints) are not the easiest things to breed either. What I cant comprehend is the price of an Albino BN. Arent they just the same as a normal BN? Why isnt the price at $1/cm Why is the price of Melanochromis auratus albino cheap then? Shouldnt it be at $10/cm? There are quite a few albino BN around ATM so I cant see why the price hasnt dropped! - Maybe its the value people place on them because of their pretty colour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Come on Mike, you have just offered to draw the supply Vs. demand graph - it is as simple as that, for now, demand far outweighs supply. Also with albino strains in most animals, survial rate in young is FAR lower. not sure how BN fair but my guess is the survival rate will be nowhere near normal BN spawns. Give it time though, if we have a strong strain and people keep back-crossing them to normals for genetic strength, their price will fall too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeWs Fish Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Although we are held back by strict imporation laws I guess we are really lucky. We have beautiful species available here and most of them are at a nice price too. Bar L046's etc I've been flicking through the cichlid books. Theres not much that really compares to species like yellows, hongis, salousi cobolts etc I guess the reason theyre cheap is beacause they have been here the longest and the reason for that is because they were the most sought after. I guess $1/cm doesnt really do them justice on one hand but on the other X <--- good old supply demand. I'd rather pay $10/$15 for a good quality adult yellow than $80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidbreeder Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Did people know that some wild caught Frontosa will have cross bars and crooked bars on them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 You reckon anyone will be culling those ones Vince What about the wild caught '6 bars' with 5 bars on one side and 7 on the other. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidbreeder Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 You reckon anyone will be culling those ones Vince What about the wild caught '6 bars' with 5 bars on one side and 7 on the other. :lol: ← Well pretty much if ur an importer u dont see what ur buying so what comes in comes in cross bars, crooked bars and 5 on one side 6 or 7 on the other. so if ur going breed them there pretty much not going to have a good market looking like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 I disagree Vince, I think it will be a good reality check for alot of people. We're talking about fish that look the way they are supposed to look. I think (well I hope), even though I am not a frontosa fan in the slightest, that the old stringent rules applied to our Aussie strain, which demand 'perfect' barring will be ignored when it comes to keeping 'wild-type' fish. As it stands I am of the opinion that what the hobby see's as 'respectable breeders' actually over-cull in alot of cases. They are killing fish which are genetically just as likely to produce 'perfect' fry as their siblings because of a misplaced blotch or a scale out of place I nearly explode in tears when I see mbuna that are only 1 or 2 generations from import, possibly only slightly more from wild caught, being culled for malformed bars. These fish are perfectly healthy and IMO just as solid genetically as their siblings which are not culled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidbreeder Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 I agree with what u just said there Ducksta I guess its in the interest of what ppl belive. Well just have to see what happens if it happens but maybe ppl dont want fish that look different even though these fish are perfectly healthy I dont belive in killing a fish just cos of a misplaced blotch or a scale out of place but will let genetics take its course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita_ozfish Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 you guys are talking about wild caughts on one hand and then the imports coming from Asian countries Let's be realistic here, we never know where our fish really come from and then again, why would Australia get the cream of Africas crop anyway when shipping to European countries is that much more viable?? Beware of wildcaughts coming into the country in huge numbers is all I can say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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