Rolla Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Hi guys,Im think of buying a common pleco.I read on plante catfish that there ideal water conditions are21-24 degrees celsiusPH of 6-7.5Now the water conditions in my malawi tank are toatally differentMine are28 Degrees celciusPh 8-8.4Will the pleco be ok in my tank?Also my tank ispretty much full ATM, since this pleco is nearly 20cm im sure he will be adding lots more waste to the tank. Should i take out my bristlnose to compensate for thos big guy?ATM i have5 Ps saulosi5 Lab hongi6 bristlenose4 Eureka RedsAll in a 48x14x20Any help appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Hi...I'm kinda heading in the guesswork direction here, but I understand that strongly differing pH has a marked effect on the fish' haemoglobin and can lead to death quite rapidly through varying physiological effects. The reason I mention this is that the spec for common plecos' water is pretty different from a Malawi's requirements. Not to mention the water hardness. I would be worried about introducing a mature speciment without very slow acclimatisation to the differing water parameters.That said, what parms is the fish living now??Sydney water is 7.8ish (at least here on the Northside it is... maybe the specimen is already sufficiently acclimated?This might be helpful but of course I defer to the more experienced fellas and gals among us. Cheers - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Hi, I have plecos in a few of my malawi and tang setups and they are fine with the water conditions. Whether they were originally acclimatised to suit the rift conditions I don't know as I bought them from malawi type aquariums. They are pretty resistant though and ImE do take a wide range of water conditions.merjo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Yes, it is possible to keep pl*co catfish in rift lake tanks but be sure you make the transition SLOWLY if the animal is coming from a South American envorenment.How ever, if the fish is already living in hard alkline water half your troubles are over.I just question the wizdom of putting a 20cm fish which is going to grow a lot bigger, in such a small tank. Your bristlenose ancistrus do a far better job of house keeping than any pl*co willAlan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolla Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Thanks for the help guys...Alan, i know the tank is small for this guy but im planning on getting a 5 or 6ft tank in the near future and i was going to throw him in there...So going by what you said pleco ae a bit on the lazy side are they? I guess if they dont clean very well than they are really only used for show???If i did decide to get this guy and he isnt used to Malawi conditions, how long should the transition take? Leave him in the bag for a few hours and slowly add more and more of my current tank water?Id really like to get this fish, but if you guys suggest against it then ill take that on board after all you guys know what your talking about (I hope ) and i dont Thanks again guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[-fireStorm-] Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I'm kinda heading in the guesswork direction here, but I understand that strongly differing pH has a marked effect on the fish' haemoglobin and can lead to death quite rapidly through varying physiological effects.Quite true. I tell everybody not to mix fish with greatly differing requirements. And in every LFS I still see South Americans, Central Americans, Asians and Africans in the same tank. -Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Call me over cautious if you like, but I take longer than a few hours to aclimatise fish. Specially if the water they are living in is a lot ditterent to to tank they are going into. Even in my own fish in my own fish room. This past week I took 2 days to change an adult male peppermint bristlenose from hard water pH 7.6 to a moderately soft tank at pH 6.6. I took 24 hours to change a Royal whiptail from acid pH6 to pH 6.8 where the water was only slightly harder where he came from. It pays to be cautious when handleing rare or expensive animals.Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Hey AlanI'm not going to call you overcautious - I'm gonna call me 'paranoid'. I was thinking in terms of days for reacclimatisation - moving 0.2 at a time. Cheers - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett4Perth Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 I am afraid I agree with Alan and Ozi, the key is the rate of change rather than the absolute levels. There are some exceptional fish that seem to be able to tolerate extreme changes. I have heard of Mollies being put from fresh to salt water tanks and surviving, and there was a recent TV program on the Bull Shark than said they could swim up rivers from salt to fresh with in a day or two without ill effect. These are the exceptions, most fish are not this adaptable. It takes a considerable time for physiological changes to take place that allow fish to thrive in differing water conditions, this is measured in days/weeks. Unfortunately one or two hours in transition is not going to help this process. I am not saying that this isn't helpful, it may be useful for temperature acclimatisation, etc but it does not allow enough time for physiological changes to take place.CheersBrett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Here - this explains it much better than I could. Paragraph 9 seems to be the one and yes, it's technical. Cheers - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeren Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 I go with the guys on acclimitisation however plecos are pretty resiliant and as for the mollies mentioned most big breeders as far as I am aware breed them in salt water or at least brackish,when they breed sailfins they develop a much better sailfin in ponds also.a prime example of fresh to salt and visa versa is our common barramundi who turns from male to female.reading through what i wrote has confused me but it makes sense, think 2 glasses of wine might do me tonight.cheers karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett4Perth Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Thanks for the link OziOscar, but it still doesn't really answer the critical question.How fast a change is too fast?? CheersBrett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtchye Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Another thing to take into account is the effect of ammonia and CO2 on pH. If the fish is in a bag, CO2 levels are going to build up and cause a decrease in pH. In addition, some small levels of ammonia may build up as well. The toxicity of the ammonia is lowered because of the lower pH. When you open up the bag, CO2 is outgassed to equilibrium which will increase the pH again and cause the toxicity of the ammonia to increase. I am not sure how much of a significant effect this is but it might be worth taking into account by using something like Prime etc. Usually I like to at least equalise the temperatures by floating the bag (unopened) in the tank. I don't open it because the opening itself could cause a rapid change in pH due ot the outgassed CO2. Should be interesting to do experiments to see whether this actually happens or not - but it might be something to think about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcichlid Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I have a gibbiceps (sailfin pleco) about 45cm in size living with American cichlids in neutral 7.0pH and in temps varying from 26-28o. I agree with most people on this thread - if your pleco has been raised in rift lake conditions it'll be well and truly acclimatised other wise you'd need to acclimitise him very slowly in a seperate tank until the water conditions are the same as your other fish. Make sure you test the pH of the tank he comes out of when you buy him. I dont think the temp difference would affect him as my experience with american catfish is that they'll handle about anything from 22-29o. As far as being a lazy fish - yes, they are. As far a producing a lot of their own waste - you betcha! - welcome to the world of daily cleaning up pleco poop. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 I did a test... got a batch of BNs from Brookvale for a low, low price (ie more like the price we trade among ourselves) that had been housed in pH 7.0. The mission? Get 'em into my Malawi tank at pH8.1... I kept them in the bag and introduced 100 ml of the Malawi tank water every 10 mins for two hours and looked for any adverse reactions. That was yesterday. Tonight, there are five fat and happy little BNs ripping algae off anywhere they can find, and that the L. caelerus won't come to hassle them on. The only side effect I noted is that the S. eupterus have taken up algae eating. Go figure. As these BN were fry, I was less cautious and guessed what they could take. I would be more concerned about a more adult specimen, especially a decent sized pl*co as if anything went wrong it could be a loss of some reasonable $$$. Cheers - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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