Solenoid Valve

[fishly]

Does anyone know how much does it cost for a normally close solenoid valve? and where can I buy them?

Regards,

Tony

[mtchye]

Hi, I am not too sure on price, but believe you can buy them at hardware stores like Bunnings, and perhaps reticulation and hydroponics stores too...

[Other Ed]

And note that if you are using a pump and have the soleniod closed the pump and water will get very hot. on a larger scale I have seen people get scalding burns. :o

So dont pump to a closed valve for too long.

Ed.

[fishly]

Thanks Mtchye, I went to bunning already, but I couldn't find any solenoid valve. I might have to try some other places that you mentioned.

And "Other Ed", thank you for remind me. But I am planning to use this type of valve just in case when black out happen, so that the water from fish tank (400lt) is not drained into the sump which can cause disaster as I am going to make my DIY Sump (only able to support 20lts of water ).

[grizzlie]

Try plumber suppliers these valve are used on offpeak gravity fed hot water systems.

[OziOscar]

Try Festo or SMC if they will sell direct, else RS Components.

Warning - they're not cheap, but they're very good. We use them in our manufacturing systems for flow control of cooling water, etc.

Cheers - OziOscar.

[fishly]

Thanks everyone for the info. Am I looking at something which cost more than $100? if so, I think I better buy the 2ft or 3ft sump. What do you think? or is there any way around it? I was thinking to use floating valve, but I heard it's not that accurate, and once it failed to do the function, then I am dead.

If anyone have done this trick please let me know. your help will be much appreciated. By the way I didn't have conner overflow .

[OziOscar]

Hello!

Check out http://www.rs-components.com.au and search for "float switch", then choose "drop float switches" or "General Purpose High Power Float Switches" if you need to switch a higher current (depends on the pump you want to control). It looks the biz and it's less than $50!.

For a solenoid, the $100 budget is totally destroyed... These items are heavily over-designed for industrial applications. #439-149 (RSC Part#) would do probably, but it is still more than a hundred. #342-017 might do the trick, but take a look - and it's under $50. I am sure that there would be a garden centre item that would do the trick just fine and cost a LOT less.

Cheers - OziOscar.

[fishly]

Thanks ozioscar for doing the search for me. #342-017 is not good enough because the flow rate is way too low. whereas the #257-9053 (the 3/4 one) is the right one, but just too expensive for me to buy two of them (one for the intake and the other for the return).

However, thanks a lot for your great information :^:.

Cheers,

Tony

[OziOscar]

I'm not quite sure of the design you want to use, but if you put one at the right spot on the output stage of your siphon line you should be ok.

Could you elaborate on your design? There might be a easy way to do this...

Cheers - OziOscar.

[BaZ]

I am planning to use this type of valve just in case when black out happen, so that the water from fish tank (400lt) is not drained into the sump which can cause disaster as I am going to make my DIY Sump (only able to support 20lts of water

Hi fishly

I might be mis-understanding your setup here, but it looks to me like you are planning on relying on this valve solely if there is a blackout. If you are using a sump, you should have your tank set up so that all the water which drains out in a blackout can be held in the sump.

Do you have your tank drilled in the back or the base? If it is in the base, you should have a weir built around the hole so that your tank doesn't empty if the pump stops returning the water for some reason.

If I haven't caught the full picture here, please add some more info so we can all understand exactly what you are trying to do.

[fishly]

Hi Baz and OziOscar,

Here is my plan:

Currently I have a 5ft tank with 2 holes drilled from the base of the tank, and it does not have built-in conner overflow. So basically I want to connect one of the hole to a canister filter, and the output of the canister filter to the sump. After that I will have a submersible pump in the sump to pump the water back into the tank via the other hole.

Here is the block diagram:

TANK -> CANISTER FILTER -> WET/DRY TRICKLE FILTER -> TANK

I do aware if I don't have a right solenoid valve to stop the water from the tank to the canister which at the end to the sump, all water will be drainned into the sump :o (which all of us don't want this thing to happen, right? :D )

So, I think I only have three solutions here :rolleyes: :

- Buy the solenoid valve

- Buy proper 2/3ft sump which will cost about $300 + the conner overflow $???

- Don't worry about the wet/dry trickle filter, so only use canister filter.

However currently it is hard to go for 1st and 2nd options as they are just out of my budget. And the last option is not good enough because when the water is lack of oxygen such as when black out, then it would be a disaster. I hope you guys know why :lol:

So what are you guys suggesting if you are me which has limited $$$ but want to get things right at the first time? Or is there any other recommendations?

[BaZ]

You will need to spend the money to have the overflow installed I think.

I know how slowly and painfully my wife would kill me if I emptied my entire tank onto the loungeroom floor because a solenoid valve failed :lol:

You will also find that the cannister filter is not necessary in that setup. The water will drain from your tank to the sump via gravity. Putting another pump in the mix is asking for trouble as you will never get them perfectly matched. You will end up draining the tank because your cannister is faster than the return pump, or you will drain the sump because the return pump is the fastest one.

I'm not sure what the cost would be to install the overflow, but it's really only 2 small pieces of glass you need to have siliconed in (assuming your holes are in a corner somewhere).

As for the sump, you do not need to spend a lot of money. I know guys who use those big clear plastic storage containers for sumps. The containers I mean are those ones you buy at Golo or similar stores, with little wheels and a lid. Remove the wheels, chuck the lid, and you have a sump. You can also use the lid too if you want to reduce evaporation from your sump, and since it is plastic it will be really easy to cut holes in it to suit your plumbing.

So I suggest saving money on the sump, spending money on the weir and then saving money again on the trickle filter by building something similar to one of the designs in the forum faq :^:

[The cichlid Man]

Try www.parker.com. This is the company i work for, if you click on operations, then climate & industrial controls, then click on products, then click fluid control this will take you to the solenoid valves. If you need one let me know and you can buy them from our distributor.

Parker Anything Possible.

Regards,

Ben :^:

[OziOscar]

Hi Fishly...

You could save yourself a lot of aggravation by making a standpipe from PVC (lots of plans and designs around - try http://www.thekrib.com in their DIY section. Some of these plans are simple, elegant and inexpensive. Sounds like all the things you're looking for. It's easy to add prefiltration to it as well and make it really good.

A weir is a really nice way to do it, but if you get the design wrong it sounds like Niagara Falls. With that noise level, expect parental / spousal / flatemate complaints.

A combo of weir and standpipe is really good.

I didn't get how big your tank was, but rather than having the cannister and then the sump in series, it might be better to have those as two independent systems to provide redundancy in case one or the other melts down for some reason.

If you are planning to use the solenoid method, think about two 'normally closed' ones in series on the same pipe so that if one blows, you're still safe. Oh - and a stop peniS (ball valve) so that you can knock the line out for maintenance.

In general terms, your sump is better if it's around 10% - 20% of the volume of the main tank. A smaller one gives you some risks that if there is a change in the way it operates, for whatever reason, you can end up with problems (lose your water onto the floor, pump runs dry, etc.

Using a plastic tote, like the ones from GoLo or Bunnings or your local cheapie-import shop is a grand idea - they're super cheap and give you lots of capacity for very small amounts of dosh. To tell the truth - that's what I'm planning to use for my DIY WD come Christmas break.

Hope all this waffle helps.

Cheers - OziOscar.

[fishly]

Hi Baz, Ben, and OziOscar,

Thanks for all your replies.

I think I do agree with your statement on

Putting another pump in the mix is asking for trouble as you will never get them perfectly matched. You will end up draining the tank because your cannister is faster than the return pump, or you will drain the sump because the return pump is the fastest one.

But I am sure that there must be a way to solve this problem, otherwise other people who have sump installed would get rid of this filter as it is too much hassle. The one that I have been think of is using floating swicth.

I know guys who use those big clear plastic storage containers for sumps. The containers I mean are those ones you buy at Golo or similar stores, with little wheels and a lid. Remove the wheels, chuck the lid, and you have a sump.

That is the one I was going to do, and I just went to bunning to see if they have the right container for me (maximum width 14"). But unfortunately they don't have the one that I am after. So I might have to go to Go Lo or some other store. Or may be buy a 2ft fish tank as a sump, since my tank is 330lts.

By the way, what do you mean by weir? is it the conner overflow? Actually I've done my DIY stand pipe, but I don't really impressed with it. The flow rate of the water is not fast enough.

Thanks for your advice OziOscar, I'll run my filters independently.

Once again, thank you all for your great and prompt replies.

Cheers,

Tony

[Adam]

I'm not sure what you mean about the return flow down your stand pipe being enough. I've got a 300l tank with a pump that does about 3000l/hr. this returns through a 25mm (1") hole. I've actually made a Durso standpipe out of 40mm PVC. Have a look at this link

Adam

[OziOscar]

There are a lot of 15" containers (including the lip) around at the moment. A lot of the Asian discount-marts have them for about $10 or less. If your cabinet is 14", then there will be a small amount of overhang at the back that no one will see, but the base will still be firmly on the floorboards of the cabinet.

I'm working on the same project as you... I just am not ready to commit glue-to-PVC until I go on Chrissie leave. :D

The one thing that has me worrying is that the pump set I chose (a duo of Jebo 399A) backsiphons if the power goes out. : I guess that just means I need to put the returns above water level - or do the solenoid thang that you're talking about.

I don't know when you want to do the project, or if anyone else wants to, but I will find out what my discount is at RS or Farnells (we buy a lot of stuff there for the engineering section) and will pass the goods on at cost. Bulk buys make for bulk discounts.

Cheers - OziOscar.