Internal Parasites...

[Buccal]

Hah ha, yes mate it has relative probability of spreading to humans.

But spreading to humans in the form of skin tuberculosis,,, a small nick or cut in skin will allow infection to set in.

The sore will become larger day by day,,,,, bit like a mild flesh wrot.

A two week coarse of antibiotics clears it up,,,, I know 4 people that have had it,,,,, one of them had it around his lips,, YUCK.

I suck my breed room water in my mouth almost everyday,,, it's my technique of milking fish fast from parent.

In 15 years I've never had problems,,,, though every ones immune systems are different and some people's set ups are more susceptible to contamination.

As I said before, different species of fish present various symptoms,,,,,, I've seen fronties with internal parasites before a few times,,,,, and typically they hold up better than most,,,, less likely to get lesions or bloat,,,,,, but indeed it's typical that a washed out color appearance, shrinking stomach, shyness and scratching/twitching is the signs for them.

They can still bloat and ulcerate though.

Andrew, you don't seem like a rookie to me,,, make a decision and have a good go.

With internal parasites,,,, there is a point of no return,,, where internal organs become over infected and damaged (though the process can string right out for big fish).

If you have two canisters running in tank,, at least primed,,, take a bucket of tank water and run the filter in the bucket in constant circulation.

This way it's in full working mode on return to tank with no shock (beneficial bacteria death).

[TimB]

Hah ha, yes mate it has relative probability of spreading to humans.

But spreading to humans in the form of skin tuberculosis,,, a small nick or cut in skin will allow infection to set in.

The sore will become larger day by day,,,,, bit like a mild flesh wrot.

A two week coarse of antibiotics clears it up,,,, I know 4 people that have had it,,,,, one of them had it around his lips,, YUCK.

That happened to me, I got a huge lump on my wrist and had to get it cut out. NOT FUN.

[andrew.vid]

Hah ha, yes mate it has relative probability of spreading to humans.

But spreading to humans in the form of skin tuberculosis,,, a small nick or cut in skin will allow infection to set in.

The sore will become larger day by day,,,,, bit like a mild flesh wrot.

A two week coarse of antibiotics clears it up,,,, I know 4 people that have had it,,,,, one of them had it around his lips,, YUCK.

I suck my breed room water in my mouth almost everyday,,, it's my technique of milking fish fast from parent.

In 15 years I've never had problems,,,, though every ones immune systems are different and some people's set ups are more susceptible to contamination.

As I said before, different species of fish present various symptoms,,,,,, I've seen fronties with internal parasites before a few times,,,,, and typically they hold up better than most,,,, less likely to get lesions or bloat,,,,,, but indeed it's typical that a washed out color appearance, shrinking stomach, shyness and scratching/twitching is the signs for them.

They can still bloat and ulcerate though.

Andrew, you don't seem like a rookie to me,,, make a decision and have a good go.

With internal parasites,,,, there is a point of no return,,, where internal organs become over infected and damaged (though the process can string right out for big fish).

If you have two canisters running in tank,, at least primed,,, take a bucket of tank water and run the filter in the bucket in constant circulation.

This way it's in full working mode on return to tank with no shock (beneficial bacteria death).

eep! Sounds kinda creepy haha definitely want to avoid that :O

The sucking siphon method is familiar. Easiest way to get the flow started and let gravity do the work! But yes. immune systems are funny things and certainly varied.

Just a few moments ago, fed them a brine shrimp cube and I tell ya, they were shooting for it! It's such a great sight to see. Even though some would come up and spit it out again. But they are eating slowly.. which just ads more confusion to my tiny brain.

I'm a intermediate rookie if there's such thing haha. been keeping fish for a few years now. But when it comes to stuff like this, then I would always like a little help and advice!

I'll have to show all this info to my mum and see what we'll do. Your help has been well.. very helpful! :D

[andrew.vid]

Hah ha, yes mate it has relative probability of spreading to humans.

But spreading to humans in the form of skin tuberculosis,,, a small nick or cut in skin will allow infection to set in.

The sore will become larger day by day,,,,, bit like a mild flesh wrot.

A two week coarse of antibiotics clears it up,,,, I know 4 people that have had it,,,,, one of them had it around his lips,, YUCK.

That happened to me, I got a huge lump on my wrist and had to get it cut out. NOT FUN.

Heebie geebies. That doesn't sound like fun at all. hope all is alright now!

[aqc]

andrew - fronnies are normally tough pigs of a fish.

Is the water temp too cool that they aren't active? Any other unusual behaviour ie. fast breathing, scraping on the bottom or rocks, hanging at the top or bottom, any slime coating or discolouring, clamped fins?

May not be wasting, just not eating. Until the hump starts to thin out, you have of time. Try a wormer with prazi.

Right now, i'm keeping the water to 27 degrees, the heat is making it creep up to 30..

The only other unusual behaviour I noticed but has calmed down is that the would continuously scrape or 'scratch' themselves on the glass or rocks.

As for colour, their bars aren't very prominent, they appear to be of a very dark colour.

I really hope it isn't wasting and that it is something else.

Ok, cool andrew, you have given a bit more of a clue and the possibility of an external parasite with the scraping and dull colour. Possibly flukes so prazi is the go. Wormers come with prazi mixed in so good to clear the gut also, but for worms, medicine by oral route is best, not great if they not feeding. Temp wise, I thought you may have been running a super cool room...

High temp is ok as it will speed up the life cycle of some parasites so that they can be treated properly. Dark colour could be from a protozoan nature. Waterlife products are number one off-the-shelf treatments.

Continue with partial water changes and follow the meds instructions when you get some. Add some salt if you don't do so regularly. Helps to reduce the osmotic stress on the fish.

As said previously, wasting doesn't happen overnight; fronnies have a chubber energy reserve in the hump, esp. if yours are getting to size and were pigs before. Good luck with it

[markfnq]

I think this is a great topic and ideas need to be tossed around .

Touch wood ! I have been reasonably lucky with illness.

But when issues arose I have had reasonable success treating with metro and or epsom salt soaked food.

If they have stopped taking food altogether it is not a good sign.

If you can get them to ingest the medication your in with a chance.

Stress seems to be the major trigger that brings on illness, whether it's water conditions , dramatic temperature fluctuations,

aggression, or introduced from outside source. Unfortunately it is something we all encounter at some stage of fishkeeping.

Good luck with it.

Mark

[Buccal]

If they are beginning to eat,,, then keep doing what your doing,,, water changes and so on,,, but don't kid yourself if they really aren't eating.

As mentioned by someone, waterlife products work well,,, and best of all the treatments and easy on the filter.

Waterlife does a product called Myxazin,,,, this treats internal, external parasites and funguses.

So that could be a cover all bases thing for you,,, it will usually hit most things on the head.

But DMZ is cheaper,, and more effective if dealing directly with internal Protozoa varieties.

By the way,,, the tube thing and sucking water into my mouth,,,,, it wasn't understood,, it's of topic but I'll explain.

I get a 30cm length of ordinary air line hose,,, I cut one end at 45 degrees.

I put square end in my mouth and suck up a mouth full of system water.

I then hold female holding Cichlid in left hand,,, and holding the 45 degree end of tube with right hand I force the soft pointed tip of the tubing between the fishes lips to open.

I then gently blow all the water from my mouth into the buccal cavity of the holding female.

The fry instantly shoot out from backs of gills and mouth.

When there is over 30 fish to strip fry from in one go,,, it's the quickest way.

Since a few months ago a started water changing my system every day and always will now.

It's all automatic and supreme ground water is used with a bore pump.

So the nasties should be at their lowest these days.

[andrew.vid]

andrew - fronnies are normally tough pigs of a fish.

Is the water temp too cool that they aren't active? Any other unusual behaviour ie. fast breathing, scraping on the bottom or rocks, hanging at the top or bottom, any slime coating or discolouring, clamped fins?

May not be wasting, just not eating. Until the hump starts to thin out, you have of time. Try a wormer with prazi.

Right now, i'm keeping the water to 27 degrees, the heat is making it creep up to 30..

The only other unusual behaviour I noticed but has calmed down is that the would continuously scrape or 'scratch' themselves on the glass or rocks.

As for colour, their bars aren't very prominent, they appear to be of a very dark colour.

I really hope it isn't wasting and that it is something else.

Ok, cool andrew, you have given a bit more of a clue and the possibility of an external parasite with the scraping and dull colour. Possibly flukes so prazi is the go. Wormers come with prazi mixed in so good to clear the gut also, but for worms, medicine by oral route is best, not great if they not feeding. Temp wise, I thought you may have been running a super cool room...

High temp is ok as it will speed up the life cycle of some parasites so that they can be treated properly. Dark colour could be from a protozoan nature. Waterlife products are number one off-the-shelf treatments.

Continue with partial water changes and follow the meds instructions when you get some. Add some salt if you don't do so regularly. Helps to reduce the osmotic stress on the fish.

As said previously, wasting doesn't happen overnight; fronnies have a chubber energy reserve in the hump, esp. if yours are getting to size and were pigs before. Good luck with it

Prazi sounds like a do it all hey! sounds good. I'll have to go around looking for these products, they sell this stuff at aquariums correct?

Indeed high temps are good for some parasites like ich and what not, but I just read a few days ago that the parasites that cause 'wasting' actually prefer it to be in the higher 30's.. which made me worry a little. Though i'm still trying to think myself if it really is wasting and with what happened and what is happening it seems less and less like it. I really hope this is true!

I'll definitely continue what I am doing since they are starting to eat now and to get my hands on the mentioned meds.

Thanks for the good luck! I'll need it haha.

Cheers

[andrew.vid]

I think this is a great topic and ideas need to be tossed around .

Touch wood ! I have been reasonably lucky with illness.

But when issues arose I have had reasonable success treating with metro and or epsom salt soaked food.

If they have stopped taking food altogether it is not a good sign.

If you can get them to ingest the medication your in with a chance.

Stress seems to be the major trigger that brings on illness, whether it's water conditions , dramatic temperature fluctuations,

aggression, or introduced from outside source. Unfortunately it is something we all encounter at some stage of fishkeeping.

Good luck with it.

Mark

One helluva confusing topic if you ask me haha. We tried forcefully feeding them in the mouth with metro soaked food. I hate it. It doesn't feel right at all but with my experiences from the yellows who definitely had wasting, it certainly did help and only lost about 1/4 of them instead of all.

I guess it's an inevitable thing to go through!

And thanks Mark!

cheers

[andrew.vid]

If they are beginning to eat,,, then keep doing what your doing,,, water changes and so on,,, but don't kid yourself if they really aren't eating.

As mentioned by someone, waterlife products work well,,, and best of all the treatments and easy on the filter.

Waterlife does a product called Myxazin,,,, this treats internal, external parasites and funguses.

So that could be a cover all bases thing for you,,, it will usually hit most things on the head.

But DMZ is cheaper,, and more effective if dealing directly with internal Protozoa varieties.

By the way,,, the tube thing and sucking water into my mouth,,,,, it wasn't understood,, it's of topic but I'll explain.

I get a 30cm length of ordinary air line hose,,, I cut one end at 45 degrees.

I put square end in my mouth and suck up a mouth full of system water.

I then hold female holding Cichlid in left hand,,, and holding the 45 degree end of tube with right hand I force the soft pointed tip of the tubing between the fishes lips to open.

I then gently blow all the water from my mouth into the buccal cavity of the holding female.

The fry instantly shoot out from backs of gills and mouth.

When there is over 30 fish to strip fry from in one go,,, it's the quickest way.

Since a few months ago a started water changing my system every day and always will now.

It's all automatic and supreme ground water is used with a bore pump.

So the nasties should be at their lowest these days.

I think i'll have to get my hands on these products for sure. The waterlife products do look and sound good. This is raising my hope bar!!

And as for the tube sucking thing... I totally misread that. Now I understand what you mean haha I've never actually heard of that method, but it sure is a smart way of pushing them little guys out of the mouth!

[aqc]

Keen to find out what happened in the end Andrew?