Parachromis Dovii (Wolf cichlid)

[detto]

Hi I'm new here, from Adelaide!

I was wondering if anyone on here currently owns a Parachromis Dovii or is breeding the species and perhaps maybe, we could trace back the origin of the first pair to arrive here in Australia. (which is highly unlikely, sigh.)

But in all seriousness, if anyone has any information or can shine some light on the matter, that would greatly be appreciated, thanks.

PS. I can only trace them back to 2007, according to some old post i dug up on a forum. Surely someone had imported the species into the country before then, who knows?

It would be great knowing the history of our fish, to help try improve the genetics and stock of the fish here in Australia. (I do realize that majority of ornamental fish here in Australia are probably related anyway, sigh.)

I have a handsome male dovii with great genetics eager to breed with a female dovii in Adelaide.

Please PM me if you do know what I'm talking about

I'll attach photos

I don't know exactly what generation of spawn my male is from, but personally i think he has a great physique and typical dovii features, though his color is not very vibrant, unless under the right light. I've also noticed that he only exhibits the vertical black marks when attacking or if threatened. He only barely shows a horizontal black line when his stressed? (I've always been curious on that subject: Do dovii lose that horizontal strip when they reach adulthood? is it because mine has lost the marking due to, to many years inbreeding? They only exhibit it during the juvenile stage? or its mainly a female trait?)

Here's another picture, please do excuse the blurriness. I took this picture using a potato.

He does show some blue under the right lighting on him, though not as much as what I've seen on other fine specimens. I believe my dovii is the Nicaraguan type, though do correct me if I'm wrong.

Ahhh, so glad i finally got that of my chest!! just needed to think out loud for a bit and share my thoughts!!

Back to where i started..

Hi I'm new here, from Adelaide!

I love Cichlids.

Don't be shy and say hello!

Cheers

[Phenomena]

Welcome to the forum. I can't answer most of your questions.

IMHO, The horizontal line tends to be faint in male as it grows. But I guess it depends on the individuals. I guess the color develops as it matures. Google guapote, you'll see many wild caught dovii pics.

I'm guessing yours is around 25-28cm. How long have you had it? It's a nice stocky specimen.

I have a pair around 20-25cm. They have quite strong colour, especially the female. I'm hoping the male will have strong color too when it matures. His horizontal and vertical stripes are still pronounced.

[detto]

Hey mate nice to meet ya! I have to agree with you, it definitely varies on each individual fish. Though I think color has multiple factors that will influence the outcome eg. genetics, feeding, environment and maturity etc.

I'm guessing yours is around 25-28cm. How long have you had it? It's a nice stocky specimen.

I have a pair around 20-25cm. They have quite strong colour, especially the female. I'm hoping the male will have strong color too when it matures. His horizontal and vertical stripes are still pronounced.

My Dovii is approximately 220 - 250mm, I've had him for about roughly 2 years. Yes he is very stocky, i feed him a high quality, various diet and i make him train by sparring himself regularly Could you please try find a photo of your pair and post it up, would like to see the difference in our fishes features. Oh, and when did you acquire your pair? did you raise them from juveniles and are they related or from the same spawn?

And on the side note - If you have any fry available, I'm very interested. I want to start a breeding project, but require only the best.

PS. i cant believe your "Member No: 45"!!

[Ducksta]

25cm sounds terribly undersized to me for a healthy, 2 year old, male dovii.

He is a nice looking fish though.

As for the history and lineage of the fish. Pretty sure they have been around since a long time before 2007. I remember looking in to getting some when I was in my later years of highschool. (Luckily I didn't, as I didn't have the tank space I was planning until years later)

I would doubt any have been imported since the advent of the allowable imports species list (was that 1999? anyone?). As importing species not on the list is risky and is only worthwhile if they can demand high prices to offset the risks.

[sorroz]

Dovii have been in Australia for over 30 years

Duck is spot on..... I do not beleive any new blood has been imported since then

Kevin

[detto]

25cm sounds terribly undersized to me for a healthy, 2 year old, male dovii.

He is a nice looking fish though.

Duck note: "My Dovii is approximately 220 - 250mm 'if not larger', I've had him for about roughly 2 years." I'm very bad with memory so excuse my ignorance. I assure you though, my Dovii is a healthy specimen and is NOT undersized. You also contradicted yourself above, unless you like the look of an unhealthy fish. I am sorry I take offense to your comment, I don't think you understand how much pride and joy I have, having raised this specimen from juvenile. lol its the equivalent of you telling me my child looks unhealthy!! (I apologize, if your quote above is not a statement.)

I too wanted to acquire a dovii years before but realized the care, space and responsibility required. I believe it is a very controversial topic in regards to keeping a dovii as an aquarium pet. They require at least 1000L/250g as a lone specimen, better yet 500g and even then 'I believe' its still not sufficient enough to observe them at there best. An outdoor pond would probably suffice.

Dovii have been in Australia for over 30 years

Duck is spot on..... I do not beleive any new blood has been imported since then

Kevin

Wow Kevin, thank you for the insight!! I did not expect to hear 30 years! Also if you and Duck are correct, that means our Parachromis Dovii are most probably from the same bloodline.

The reason I am currently keeping the species, is I plan to start a selective breeding project. I only then plan to keep one single male to full adult size if all goes to plan. Of course this will be a life long en devour and may take many years. I've read Dovii sexually mature at a fairly young age "The length for sexual maturity was 134 mm Lt" Thus i only plan to breed them for selective fry. And only grow out ones a require temporarily.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11354954 - Have a squiz at the link, its a very interesting read.

So this leads me to my next question for you guys: Is it possible to breed for the strong with only the current bloodline we have here available in Australia?

'Strong' meaning - physique, color, size, attitude, viability, no deformity etc.

[Ducksta]

Yep, what you're doing sounds like basically line breeding - which is most often done with a very small gene pool as they are looking for very specific traits.

As for taking offence at my post and finding some contradiction.

I think your fish is good looking based on the picture shown here. A photo though, is no true indicator of either size, or health.

However, I stand by my statement that I feel that 25cm (which was the larger of your estimated range) is very small for a roughly 2 year old dovii. Nowhere does that say I think your fish is unhealthy. As you said maybe your fish is larger. It is just a comment. If anything it just suggests I am baffled at either the estimate of the fish, or the estimate of the age.

Anyway, if I had to guess based on the pictures, I'd put your fish at much closer to 40cm - trying to scale it based on the width of the heater in the blurry pic... But obviously that is flawed because i have no idea what heater it is, etc. I would just imagine the heater tube would be something close to 4cm across, and your fish is maybe 10x that?

Out of interest - I sometimes put a ruler across the front of my tank to try to get accurate scaling for fish. They are almost always bigger than I guess when I haven't done so for a while. Which is weird because when I'm fishing they always shrink on the ruler.

The people I know personally who have raised dovii concur with most info online that suggests a healthy growth rate for a male dovii is somewhere around an inch a month. One beast of a fish I know of (unfortunately lost now) reached 16" inside of 10 months from a skinny little 4cm juvenile. He was housed alone in plenty of water with no distractions - and was 'power fed' for maximum growth. Not suggesting that is the best way - only that it is possible.

Thats not to say there isn't a healthy variation in these type of things. Even allowing for variation, I would personally be looking for a reason that a fish would be that size at that age - if the estimates are roughly accurate. (tankmates, diet, breeding, water parameters, all can have some effect) Growth is energy consumption. If they are not growing it could be that energy is not available, or being used elsewhere.

Just a quick edit - when I am talking about growth rates I'm talking about in an aquarium, where, you would hope food is more plentiful, and water quality is better, and the competition and energy expended to feed is much less.

[Phenomena]

Hi Detto,

iPad doesn't take good pics in low light. So I took video instead. Here it is.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=BwbzfJ0sNxQ

I bought mine about a year ago @ around 5-6cm. Most definitely from the same brood.

I don't intend to breed them. But they'll breed eventually. I'm planning to take the female out as they are getting too aggressive wanting to breed, especially towards the trimac.

These are my second pair. I sold the first pair many years ago when they reached about this size and bred for the first time. Just didn't have a room for them.

I think the dovii quality we have in general is still good.

[detto]

Hey Phenomena, thank you for following up on that video! I've been enlightened very much! I must say your male dovii makes mine look small in comparison! And your female, wow shes gorgeous.. exhibits very nice color! It is nice to see that our dovii here in Australia are still going strong.

I hope to find a nice female like yours to breed with my male, then line breed the chosen specimen with either mother or father. I'll most likely sell the pair after that and start over again until I can select the perfect dovii to grow out till adult size. Long way too go.

Honestly if you do decide to breed your pair sooner, I would be very interested in some fry. I have to start somewhere!!

PS. Please remove the trimac and dithers, and let the dovii do what nature intended

[Phenomena]

Thanks for the kind words.

I'm not sure how common dovii is in SA. In NSW females are out for sale every now and then. A few weeks ago there was one up for sale for $40. Good size and nice fish. So, far I've seen more females for sale than males.

I'm hoping my male will be colorful like this one:

He's looking very promising.

It's a hard decision to remove the female, as she's so colorful especially looking at her in breeding dress. My tank is a display and there is already a pair of festae that breeds regularly. They're much less agro than the dovii.

I don't want any more casualties. I've lost a trimac and a zonatum already along the way due to my fault of removing and re-introducing. My suspicion is on the dovii. IMHO, you really cannot keep a pair of dovii with other fish when they breed, despite the fact that they grow together from juvies. A single male seems to be more possible as I've seen people keeping them with other large cichlids like in this tank:

[detto]

Yeh i emailed that seller, he wasn't keen on shipping unfortunately. I don't blame him, she was a reasonable size.

Wow that color on that male looks very nice, though i think the lighting has a bit to do with it. Your male still has some more growing to do, i wouldn't be surprised if his blue pops more when he gets older.

I saw these pics below and found it quite interesting.

Low Genetic Dovii

F1 Dovii

This is why i want to line breed our dovii here in Australia to 'try' get the best out of them, and then maintain that particular strain. Have a look at this guys videos, he's been line breeding them for a few years and has got beautiful results to show! here's a few vids. His uploaded more, check his profile. I don't know if his project is still on going on though.

Your display tank looks amazing from that short video you posted before, I'm sure it looks even better in person! A shame dovii behave the way they do. The tank will loose a lot of personality if they're removed, not saying the festae pair aren't, but that's just my opinion. However I do agree, we must do whats best for our fish, casualties are the last thing we want.

Perfect opportunity to buy another tank really

Ps. Have a Happy Easter mate!! and enjoy your long weekend!

[capefear]

lovely dovii i got a male gonna breed him when i get a female would a 6x2x2 tank be ok as they wont be very big and i wont have any other fish with them and as they get bigger i might upgrade the size of tank maybe 8 x2x3 any suggestions??

[detto]

Hey capefear, slow down mate! one step at a time

I'll tell you what mate, if you can answer my question first I promise I'll answer yours. ok

How big do dovii grow?

[capefear]

28 inch

m 15 inch f

[capefear]

sorry mate just excited when people out there like the same type of fish not eveyone likes them.

[detto]

Good man, keep up the research!! that's one of the best things you can do for yourself.

Ok to answer your question, yes you could house a dovii pair in a 6x2x2 tank, but only temporarily. If you just want to watch them breed and grow a bit a 6x3x2 will be a lot better. However soon enough they will grow bigger and you will need to upgrade your tank if you plan on keeping them for longer.

If you do plan on keeping them I want you to think about this, a male dovii may grow out to be 71cm, that means a 2ft(61cm) wide tank will be to small for him to even turn around in. If you want him to be comfortable, you will most likely want a 3ft wide tank. A good footprint would be a 8x3x2.5 to house a decent size pair, but that still may not be enough for them. You would be best of, only keeping one single male in that tank or building a massive pond to keep a full grown pair happy.

At the end of the day I cant stop you doing what you choose, just remember its going to be your responsibility, not mine. Everyone deserves to experience owning fish, we cant take that away from you. Just make sure you do it right, you'll enjoy it more, trust me!

So keep doing your research cape. You'll answer a lot more questions on your own mate. And if you learn anything new please do share it with us.