Sump media question

[damoq]

Hi All!!!

I bought some Marine Pure filter media last week and was told not to put bio balls in with them as bio balls create nitrates and Marine Pure removes nitrates so the two media will be working against each other!! I was always under the impression that any media that creates beneficial bacteria would be a positive!!

Im wondering if the guy at the shop i bought this off was just trying to get me to buy more!

And one other thing is Matrix the same as Marine Pure???

Cheers,

Damo

[cichlid.lover]

[damoq]

Ok so..... No bio balls at all or???

[Ged]

Both bio balls and Marine Pure are media where the beneficial bacteria colonise.

Bio Balls are often referred to as so called "nitrate factories". The supposed theory goes something like this. The bacteria breaks down the ammonia and converts it nitrites and then to nitrates. They then don't convert the nitrates to nitrogen gas which then dissipates from the filter. This is because a higher proportion of aerobic bacteria. The water changes act as the means to reduce nitrates.

The Marine Pure with a larger surface area, both externally and internally allows the development of both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. The anaerobic bacteria deep inside allows for the nitrates to be converted to nitrogen gas.

Did you buy a block or the balls? Either way there needsto be a transition period as you will need the Marine Pure to develop the bacteria required.

[damoq]

Thanks Ged that makes more sense now!

I bought 2 blocks for my 8x2 Foai tank but i am running a seeded fx5 as well until the marine pure can develop its own bacteria!!

Its a bit unnerving to see my sump with just the blocks in it when i have always been used to all different types of media!

Oh well i guess i will just have to wait and see how it goes.

Thanks for your reply Ged, much appreciated.

Damo

[chorrylan]

The guy in your lfs was a twit.

If the bacteria in your blocks breaks down the nitrate that's great but doesn't change the fact you want ammonia and nitrite converted as quickly as possible.

The only exception would be if you've found a way to extract the effluent before it breaks down, eg like Skimmers do in marine environments... a biofilter like your blocks simply won't do this.

[chorrylan]

And then I watched the YouTube video......I rest my case. :-) Lol

[Ged]

If you read the literature from Cermedia, the manufacturer of Marine Pure. The blocks would have to be used in a passive system or placed inside the tank for the control of nitrates. In an active system where water is flowing through the Marine Pure it will only remove the ammonia and nitrites. The block in a passive system act just the same as live rock in a marine setup. The blocks will be doing the same thing as the bio balls but with an increased surface area more effectively.

I bet the salesman didn't tell you that.

There is nothing preventing you from using both. I suggest there is less maintenance with bio balls than Marine Pure

[firthy13]

i think if it were a marine tank, i would say get rid of the bioballs but in your case i wouldnt worry about removing them. add the blocks of marine pure to an area of your sump the has the least amount of movement. maybe up behind your pump, ie away from the baffles. this will hopefully slow the water moving through the marine pure and allow a bit of anaerobic bacteria to colonize to help convert your nitrates to nitrogen as Ged already stated. in the end, its extra surface area for bacteria of any type to colonize so as long as you maintain your filter media on a regular basis its not going to hurt the tank at all.

[damoq]

Excellent!!!

Thanks heaps guys!!! Sometimes you question yourself when things like this are said to you by so called 'professionals' in well known aquarium shops!!

Cheers,

Damo

[chorrylan]

Yes... though y'd think a shop/business that imports,distributes retails and presumably uses the stuff (oh and makes videos about it ) would have a particular responsibility to actually understand what the product does/does-not do and reflect that in their 'advertising '

[Likoma]

The debate of how to achieve denitrification is close to my heart. I have trialed many different types of filter media but since we started using Poret filter foam it has been a whirlwind journey of knowledge growth and testing our system. Our aim was to attain a level of denitirfication in our tanks.

Removing nitrates has always been a fish keepers dream for me. But I wanted to do it in a cost effective way and considering that the timeline needed before results can be seen is 6 months. Patience is definitely needed.

At this point we are 7 months in and are starting to seeing results. Not total removal of nitrates, but definitely lowering them. Fully understandable when looking at our high stocking densities.

I am still adopting a regular water change regime but have halved the amounts of water changed.

We believe we have achived a level of denitrification in an active filtration system already and hope it will continue to increase. We are using a slower flow rate (2-3 cycles an hour) so the aerobic bacteria have a chance to use up all the oxygen in the initial stage of the filtration, following this the anaerobic bacteria can do its job.

I haven`t been able to upload a file that is great reading. A copy of Insights into biological filtration can be found at http://www.poret-aquarium-filter.co.nz/technical.php

Our new experiment is a planted tank filtered with a Hamburg Matten filter and Poret foam as the base layer. Our hope is that with this aquarium we will not have to do water changes rather just topping it up. We have placed pieces of Poret foam under the planting medium to raise up as if it was a hill. This will provide a visual reference as well as a perfect place for anaerobic bacteria to colonise.

The back of the tank (the filter) will will be planted out with narrow leaf java fern. We'll keep posting pictures are the project progresses.

[Ged]

Greg can you post some photos of the completed tank.

[Ducksta]

Pardon my ignorance - but why would you want a specialised denitrifying media in a planted tank? Don't most planted tanks actually get nitrate supplemented?

[Noddy65]

Pardon my ignorance - but why would you want a specialised denitrifying media in a planted tank? Don't most planted tanks actually get nitrate supplemented?

Yep...I used to add nitrate to my planted tanks daily and even then couldnt keep it high enough

[Likoma]

Greg can you post some photos of the completed tank.

I’ve just acquired some native timber to make the stand. I’m chomping at the bit to start on the aquascaping. I will place up some photos of the planted tank in the appropriate section when we get to that stage.

Pardon my ignorance - but why would you want a specialised denitrifying media in a planted tank? Don't most planted tanks actually get nitrate supplemented?

Great question about the filter. I’ve always thought that the ability of nitrates to be totally utilized by the plants is dependent on the stocking density and type of fish comparative to the plants nutrient requirements.

In our tank we are going to plant a carpet of glossostigma and a wall of java fern, with a low stocking density Siamese fighter community.

The filter is aimed mainly at nitrification, ie conversion of ammonia and nitrites. The fact that is does denitrification if given time is just a bonus. Algae blooms are always caused by a lack of control of the nitrates. This is just an experiment and to see if we can completely control the system and therefore prevent the build up of algae by limiting available nutrients. I would prefer to add nutrients of my choosing when they are needed.

We ultimate goal is to make the maintenance of the aquarium as easy as possible. How cool would it be to only have to add a bit of water and nutrients every now and then because it is a self regulating system. I think it would open up aquariums for more people who perhaps aren’t able to keep up with standard maintenance.