Peppermint catfish growth rate

[Richard]

Hey guys and gals,

Im looking into getting some small ppers soon and was wondering how fast do they grow. do they grow as fast as BN and what size do they breed at?

cheers

Richard

[Matthew]

G'day Richard

I have had mine for about 18 months now and they still haven't bred. I am sure (hope) they well breed shortly.

I believe that it has more to do with size of the males, but that is only what I have read, then again my ladies are comparatively a lot smaller, so maybe they are the defining factor.

Dunno but I am sure the knowledgeable people around here will be able to help you out. :D

[Alan]

Hi Richard,

I can't really give you any first hand advise but going by the reports fron other successful breeders it is not a short term thing. Seems that peppermint bristle nose take two to three years to become sexually mature. I have a group of two and a half year old fish but believe it or not they are all females.

If you click the link that Dave put at the top, it will take you to a site where there is a whole lot more on peppermint Ancistrus than I could put here. Four or so breeders have put a lot of info there over the last couple of months.

Personally I thinkPeppermints will become easier with successive generations. 30 odd years ago a pair of common bristle nose would cost you a week's wages or more and they were a real problem to breed. These days they are a cake walk and cheap as chips.

Go for it !!!

Alan

[PHL]

Alan, any reliable way to sex them? My larger one (5-6cm) seem to have a double bristle on the nose, but (apparently; I have a dark substrate and it's difficult to see clearly) no where else. I've been told that's a female; is that correct?

[Alan]

PHL, haveing only raised females my self, I'm stepping out side my personal experience. But have watched the devlopment of fish in friends tanks, a male seems to grow the typical whiskers at about 6 to 7 months (and about that in cm lenght, SL, don't count the tail).

Unlike common Bristles, female peppermingt do have a fringe on thier lip region. However if the animal gets adornment up the bridge of the nose it is male.

Any help ??

Alan

[PHL]

Unlike common Bristles, female peppermingt do have a fringe on thier lip region. However if the animal gets adornment up the bridge of the nose it is male.

Any help ??

I think I might have to wait longer and see; can't say I've noticed any fringes in any of them at all, besides the two "prongs" on the nose, except in a recent addition, where there are a few already up the bridge of the nose, but it is much smalller in size. I suspect they might be female. Thanks for the help.

[Richard]

Thanks for the help guys. Im looknig at purchusing a pair soon. Il ltell u how it goes.

cheers

Richard

[Geoffagus]

Sorry Allen but I think that you will find that both female bristlenose and peppermints do get a moustach. My peppers took about 2 years to breeding size. The only way to be sure you have a male is when you see bristles running up the bridge as described in a previous post. Some say that by looking down on them you can tell from head shape, personaly I haven't found this to be 100% accurate. My breeding male is a fraction over 6 inch. he started to breed at about 4inch. from memory. The growth rate in my experience is about the same as a bristlenose.

[Alan]

Wow you had me doubting there for a minute Geoff,,,,,, so I went out to the fish room just to check.

Nope none of my female common Bristle nose catfish have any bristles, whiskers or moustach !!! Mind you I didn't check all 50 odd of them, but those that I did see in a walk down that rack of breeding tank must have all had a shave this morning.

The thing is, are we talking about the same species of Ancistrus ???

This topic on the Auscat board may interest you.

http://pub79.ezboard.com/fperthcichlidsoci...picID=251.topic

Alan

[Th0mas]

I'll back Alan for this one!!

None of the female BN I've kept/seen/bred had any sign of whiskers. However all Peppermint BN female I've got DO have some whiskers around the tip of her head.

Thomas.

[E4G13M4N]

I had 1 large bristlenose female develope the whiskers around the lip, she was the only one ive seen do it (that ive had)

She was old at the time and past breeding capabilities passed away at the ripe ole age of nearly 11

[Th0mas]

Now this may stir up a can of worm but from the past I've heard from people in the trade that there has been peppermint BN crossed with normal BN for a quick buck.

I always treat this as a myth, but it may explains for the female whisker in normal BN if this is true.

Now I'm ducking for cover.....

Thomas.

[Caty]

Must admit I've also seen female bristlenose with bristles, only in very large females though and have only ever seen them with 1 or 2 bristles on the front margin of the mouth.

Tammy

[PHL]

Now this may stir up a can of worm but from the past I've heard from people in the trade that there has been peppermint BN crossed with normal BN for a quick buck.

Will they cross-bread? From Alan's post (via the link he provided), it may not be possible to cross-breed them. Perhaps there are some variants of so called common BNs that do have whiskers in females. BTW, what's the species name of the common BNs?

[Alan]

Now THAT is a very good question PHL !!! I don't think any one knows for sure.

A teminkii ?? A triradiatus ?? who knows, we may even have more than one species going under the one name !

Alan

[mtchye]

Its no help to this debate but the bristlenoses that we breed show alot of variation, with females with absolutely no bristles to some with just two, and some with small ones all around the lip.. They never get the ones up the nose though..

[PHL]

Its no help to this debate but the bristlenoses that we breed show alot of variation, with females with absolutely no bristles to some with just two, and some with small ones all around the lip.. They never get the ones up the nose though..

We have to sex them somehow, and if they grow bristles up the nose, we'd be up the creek! :lol:

[PHL]

A teminkii ?? A triradiatus ?? who knows, we may even have more than one species going under the one name !

That's the problem isn't it; they are so common, everyone refers to them as common BN, and noone ever asks for the scientific name (not that many retailers would know anyhow...).

[Geoffagus]

Thanks for the link info Al, however they are not crossed and I should have mentioned that the 4 large girls are about 5". I think it might be a maturity issue because you are correct in the fact that all of the smaller ones show no signs of this. I haven't taken much notice of the smaller ones over the past few years of breeding them so I appoligise for not explaning myself properly in the previous post.

[Alan]

Nah, your right geoff. You know how you sort of get complacent after a while and I thought I was slipping as I don't really look that closely at the bristle nose these days. They just sort of roll along doing thier thing to help pay for the rest of the fish room.

You could be right about the maturaty thing too. I don't keep mine longer than about 5 years these days as I set up a new colony every year, so, when you think about how long these beasties live all mine are comparatively young. Teach me to make broard all encompassing statements :

Alan

[MollyMan]

After sending many/many pics of what we call Common BN's to some experts in the field of Ancistrus over in the UK and Germany, they seem to all point to Teminiki (I always spell it wrong... ok) but that is not 100%

as for the minties Ancistrus hoplogenys is the scientific name, they originate from the Rio Negro region of Brazil and apparently have been in Aust for close to 18yrs from the checking I have done, but even that cant be confirmed...

[Leeren]

Both my peppermint and bn females have bristles, mind you my breeding peppermints are a lot smaller then the bn's with bristles, less then half the size.

cheers Karen

[gianniz]

ok from what my peps look the only sure female I think i have is the big one that is considerably darker than any of my peps (fully rich black with sparkling white spot) and only has exactly 2 small bristle right at the tip of their upper lips.

I see other peps slightly smaller has got the bristlese on their nose but has about 4-5 smaller bristlese around the upper lips area. I am suspecting them to be males as their colourations are always paler and body is much thinner then the big female who is about to burst!

The main reason I think these are males is that the bigger female only has 2 bristles while the smaller ones have more around the same area..

PS. when i say bristle is nots really bristle its like 0.2cm stubble right at the tip of the lips symmetrical to one and other.

PPS> anyone wanna swap my males for a female

[Link2Hell]

Hi All

From my experiences this is what I look for

Males tend to have a sharper narrow head shape

Females tend to have a round blunt head shape

this is the only generalised way to attempt to sex "Peppermints" that I can give you till they start to develop the head spikes at 8cm > depending on whether you have dominant males with the sub adults

Females do develop bristles around the mouth usually small ones but only the males develop the head spikes which is why head shap plays a part in guesstimating sexes at a small size

Don't worry too much about the drop of colour from black to grey as this is just the fishes way of saying its not happy for one reason or another usually if disturbed or just not comfortable with the tank

Having said not to worry, I mean this in a one out situation where nothing has been disturbed and the fish are fine

Patience is the main thing as they are not a short term breeding prospect and will only breed when everything is to their liking and they do mature later

These fish were first brought to my attention in 1988 when I found them in a Sydney LFS that managed to have varies catfish occassionally and I renewed my interst in them about 4 yrs ago

I have had mature Peppermints and Common Bristlenose housed together over a 2 year period with no interbreeding, I have had numerous spawns of common bristlenose in the tank and non have shown any signs of being anything but common bristlenose, these have now been moved as they were annoying the Peppermints too much for my liking

I have found that while young Peppermints are attracted to wood but as they get older they prefer rock & cave type structures to attach to

The other thing is to have a grazing food like a piece of vegie (Pumpkin,Zuchinni, Cucumber etc) while feeding pellets, flake and/or frozen foods to add a protien factor

They also like large water changes like 30-50% every few days (200Lt water conditioning drums are great here) and a slight current

Iam only using conditioned Sydney tapwater with mine in a bare bottom 3' tank with a good old icecream filter 2/3 filled with gravel and a cannister filter running

Having said this I have had a male spawn in the fry tank with a female that was in the spawning cave 3 weeks post moving them while he was brooding a spawn

It's a 16" tank with a gravel filled corner filter .... go figure

As far as growth is concerned it is very variable, the spawns have ones that just rocket in size and others that could be considered runts in their development

most reach about 3cm in 3 months and then start to fill out rather than increase in length but should attain a length of 8-9cm in about 18mths depending on food, water changes and temp

These are my experiences and may vary to other peoples, hope this helps

Remember to check the Auscat site on PCS forums for a detailed account of breeding these fish (site link is at the top of the Catfish forum page)

L2H