Lowering ph question

[mathobes]

Hey all,

as some of you may have read in previous posts, I'm soon moving to Brisbane and plan on keeping south Americans. I've reasearched for months but there is one question I just can't seem to find an answer to: how to lower ph plus raise kh. I've never had to lower ph before, only raise it.

From what I have read Brisbane city tap water has a ph of approx 8. So if I get the ph down to about 6.5 - 7, my kh will drop. And if I get my kh to a desired level, my ph will rise.

So how do I lower a ph to about 7 and raise the kh to at least 4?

I will be using driftwood and roots as a buffer but when I do a water change the ph would fluctuate.

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I just can't figure it out.

Thanks to everyone who can offer some insight.

[CThompson]

Hey all,

as some of you may have read in previous posts, I'm soon moving to Brisbane and plan on keeping south Americans. I've reasearched for months but there is one question I just can't seem to find an answer to: how to lower ph plus raise kh. I've never had to lower ph before, only raise it.

From what I have read Brisbane city tap water has a ph of approx 8. So if I get the ph down to about 6.5 - 7, my kh will drop. And if I get my kh to a desired level, my ph will rise.

So how do I lower a ph to about 7 and raise the kh to at least 4?

I will be using driftwood and roots as a buffer but when I do a water change the ph would fluctuate.

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I just can't figure it out.

Thanks to everyone who can offer some insight.

Product called KH Neutral from Aqapics will do it. Not sure the KH level, but you can add it and the pH won't exceed 7. See the lfs.

[mathobes]

Thanks very much for that. Very helpful. So I can raise kh with the product and lower the ph with a differnt product without the products counter affecting each other? If that makes sence

[killiguy]

One fact alot of fish keepers arent aware of is that many fish that come from very soft water are actually atuned to the conductivity rather than the pH.

Conductivity is a measure of total ions in the water.If you put chemicals to reduce the pH you actually increase the conductivity and fish like cardinal tetras,some cichlids and the peat bog inhabiting wild Betta species etc wont breed or their eggs fail to hatch (like N.transvestitus)

Its better to mix RO or rainwater with your local supply to get the right balance rather than add lots of chemicals.

With most SA cichlids it doesnt make much difference and most people dont have access to rainwater or RO water so chemicals are fine.

BUT this small fact totally changed my ability to breed tetras,wild Bettas and acid loving cichlids(I read it in TFH magazine several years ago)

Doug

[mathobes]

I was considering getting a ro unit, and putting the ro water in a 200l drum for water changes. If I had the ro water in the 200l drum then Added the kh+7.0 generator to bring the kh up and keeping the ph at 7, plus then added geo liquid to put minerals back in the water, would that be suitable to use for geos?

[killiguy]

Most Geos except perhaps S daemon dont need the seriously acid and soft water of the wild Bettas or blackwater Apistos do (pH 3.5-4.0)The only Geo I have at present is S leucosticta and they are happy in neutral water my Rio tapajos were happy with that as well and spawned.They just need lots of water changes so the easier the better

If you have very hard water it may be a lot easier to choose fish that like it.The sand sifting Tanganykans like E.melanogenys etc are as or more spectacular than the Geos and you wouldnt have to mess around with the water.

The central Americans would also like those conditions.Just a thought,the easier it tis to make a water change the more are done

Doug

[mathobes]

I considered just choosing differnt fish but I've been keen on keeping sa for a while now so I decided I'd rather put in the work figuring out the water. I think I'm going to get an ro unit and use ro/tap water mixes or use pure ro with buffers. That way I'll always have the ro unit when I need it.

I have read that ro units strip the water of eveything hence leaving it with close to kh:0 gh:0 and a ph of seven. Then I'd add geo liquid to re-mineralize the water and the kh+7.0 generator to raise the kh whilst keeping the ph at 7. The one question I have is will the geo liquid be sufficiant with putting the minerals back into ro water?

It seems very complicated to me but I've been told I don't really have much of a choice.

Thanks for all the help so far.

[pseudotrop]

I considered just choosing differnt fish but I've been keen on keeping sa for a while now so I decided I'd rather put in the work figuring out the water. I think I'm going to get an ro unit and use ro/tap water mixes or use pure ro with buffers. That way I'll always have the ro unit when I need it.

I have read that ro units strip the water of eveything hence leaving it with close to kh:0 gh:0 and a ph of seven. Then I'd add geo liquid to re-mineralize the water and the kh+7.0 generator to raise the kh whilst keeping the ph at 7. The one question I have is will the geo liquid be sufficiant with putting the minerals back into ro water?

It seems very complicated to me but I've been told I don't really have much of a choice.

Thanks for all the help so far.

Question is - does geo liquid have any minerals in it? I thought it was just a flocculating agent (bentonite) that made the water clear? Happy to be corrected though.

[mathobes]

I thought it was a dechlorinator plus all the minerals needed for the particular fish eg. Geo liquid "discus". Hence "mineral magic". I could quite easily be corrected though as I've never used it, just read about it.

[Rod54]

What ever you do....just keep it simple

I agree with pseudotrop

Geoliquid is clay in suspension.....it wont do what you are saying

I keep Soft water Dwarf cichlids both South American and West African.....I find best solution is a combination of treated tap water + rainwater(ro water)

I have lots of plants in my tanks....sometimes add peat or ketapang leaves

I believe they appreciate water with low TDS, low conductivity

Diluting tap water with pure water works for me....and it's not space science and easily repeated

I have noticed some species have much reduced incidence of disease in very soft acid water.....

[mathobes]

So mixing tap water and ro water together would be just trial and error until the right ratio is found? I suspect the only product that would need to be added is prime?

Changing from Africans to American has been one hell of a learning bender!

[Rod54]

So mixing tap water and ro water together would be just trial and error until the right ratio is found? I suspect the only product that would need to be added is prime?

Changing from Africans to American has been one hell of a learning bender!

Yep!

and

Yep!

[mathobes]

Thanks for the help eveyone.

[pseudotrop]

Thanks for the help eveyone.

I'll be getting an RO unit soon. Will probably use Seachem acidity and alkalinity to adjust water. Maybe look into those products?

[mathobes]

Yeah mate looked at seachem neutral regulator and acid regulator. Will use these when needed but I hope to achieve the water parameters through ro an tap water mixes, which means there will be less products and less conductivity. I have learned that sa cichlids are more sensitive to tds as apposed to ph. But I will be keeping products on hand.