Maskedman Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 No, its not whitespot or velvet. I've got a Malawi 6x2x2 with about 25 assorted mbuna, peacocks, eye-biter & multipunctatus. My water is crystal clear & my PH, GH etc are all good. The tank (bought brand new) has been set up for about 1year with the same fish & decor & I do religous 20% water change every week with a good vaccuuming. I set my water parameters & temp before I add it to the aquarium. My fish all scratch, some weeks worse than others, but not all the fish scratch at the same time. About half will scratch for a few weeks, then the other half will take thier turn. There are 2-3 that seem to always be scratching. I thought it was some kind of gill irritation because the scratching is always around the head/gill area. No sign of over redness, no rapid breathing. There are no visible parasites either in the mouth/gills or anywhere around the head, eyes & body. My nitrates etc are all just readable on api tests. My ammonia is 0. The fish have been medicated with the usual blue, green & tri-sulphates with the temp raised to 29C. Even all three at once for a month on advice from local aquarium. Still scratching. I thought it must be the rocks I collected from a local creek. I checked them thouroughly for any signs of metals first & avoided kinds I knew were unsuitable, boiled them all for an hour each & gave them the vinegar test. Not that I was worried if they raised the PH within reason. So I stripped the tank down & got rid of all the rock & the piece of bogwood I had for my bristlenose. Bought new limestone, even though I hate the white color. Thouroughly vaccuumed all the gravel (bought from local aquarium), gave the heaters, airstones etc a good scrub in weak bleach, rinsed the whole lot very thoroughly & built the whole lot again with the aquarium bought limestone. Still scratching. Every time a new fish has been introduced it starts scratching within a few hours, even after the rebuild. I now have one heck of a headache. Anyone got any ideas? I'm stumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new boy Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 No, its not whitespot or velvet. I've got a Malawi 6x2x2 with about 25 assorted mbuna, peacocks, eye-biter & multipunctatus. My water is crystal clear & my PH, GH etc are all good. The tank (bought brand new) has been set up for about 1year with the same fish & decor & I do religous 20% water change every week with a good vaccuuming. I set my water parameters & temp before I add it to the aquarium. My fish all scratch, some weeks worse than others, but not all the fish scratch at the same time. About half will scratch for a few weeks, then the other half will take thier turn. There are 2-3 that seem to always be scratching. I thought it was some kind of gill irritation because the scratching is always around the head/gill area. No sign of over redness, no rapid breathing. There are no visible parasites either in the mouth/gills or anywhere around the head, eyes & body. My nitrates etc are all just readable on api tests. My ammonia is 0. The fish have been medicated with the usual blue, green & tri-sulphates with the temp raised to 29C. Even all three at once for a month on advice from local aquarium. Still scratching. I thought it must be the rocks I collected from a local creek. I checked them thouroughly for any signs of metals first & avoided kinds I knew were unsuitable, boiled them all for an hour each & gave them the vinegar test. Not that I was worried if they raised the PH within reason. So I stripped the tank down & got rid of all the rock & the piece of bogwood I had for my bristlenose. Bought new limestone, even though I hate the white color. Thouroughly vaccuumed all the gravel (bought from local aquarium), gave the heaters, airstones etc a good scrub in weak bleach, rinsed the whole lot very thoroughly & built the whole lot again with the aquarium bought limestone. Still scratching. Every time a new fish has been introduced it starts scratching within a few hours, even after the rebuild. I now have one heck of a headache. Anyone got any ideas? I'm stumped. [/quote gday mate i have the same problem and was just going to ask the same thing sorry hope someone can help us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intern1 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 i think it may be the amounts of salts and buffer you place in your aquarium when you do a water change. You be increasing the conc alot causing fluctuation in gh and kh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priscacara Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I also found in my tank that after a few weeks there are very fine particles suspended in the water from my limestone rocks (so I was told). I also read about this occuring in a fish mag, the particles are very small and irritate the gills a bit so the fish will sometimes scratch. I use Clarity on it and continue to use it once a month to clear up the particles and since then havent had near as much scratching just the occassional fish doing it a couple of times but not continuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maskedman Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 i think it may be the amounts of salts and buffer you place in your aquarium when you do a water change. You be increasing the conc alot causing fluctuation in gh and kh. Thanks intern1, but my parameters are all good & STABLE. I do not add any salts, (apart from what's in water supply). I use RO water when required (about once a month), to stop any mineral build up that I can't test for. I run my checks every 3 days & have done it everyday for a month about two months ago to try & find a fluctuation. I get practically none. I still continue to use an EC meter twice daily to be precice about total salts, but my readings are always very, very close to each other. All my buffering is done by 450kgs of limestone, so I don't use a buffer. I have had several different aquariums test my water & they can't find a reason for it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maskedman Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 I also found in my tank that after a few weeks there are very fine particles suspended in the water from my limestone rocks (so I was told). I also read about this occuring in a fish mag, the particles are very small and irritate the gills a bit so the fish will sometimes scratch. I use Clarity on it and continue to use it once a month to clear up the particles and since then havent had near as much scratching just the occassional fish doing it a couple of times but not continuous. I use an Ehiem pro3 filter & a trickle filter. My water is incredibly clear. Even shining a maglite through the tank lengthways at night doesn't show up any suspended material. I have removed fish to inspect for inflammation, redness or white patches. There's nothing. I have taken fish themselves to 2 different aquariums & they cannot find anything either. There is nothing fake in the tank, except heaters & gaurds, airline, airstones & filter pipes. Only gravel & rock siliconed together with silicone purchased from local tank manufacturer for the pupose. The scratching is so bad sometimes that fish will remove scales & cause themselves other injuries. Thanks Priscacara, but I'm pretty certain it's not from anything suspended in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod54 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 If as you say......water conditions are up to speed...then I'd treat the tank for an external parasite....There are medications specifically for this Dont use the generic medications....target external parasites....Sterazin?? Not all parasites are visable....or get enough numbers in healthy tanks to be anything more than annoying for fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I agree with Rod, it points to an external parasite. Hit them with clout or maybe something that has praziquantel (sp??) in it. You may find that does the job. cheers rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maskedman Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Thanks guys, sounds like a good idea. At least it can't hurt. It's been doing my head in for ages. Will let you know how I get on with it. Thanks for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozarowana Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Ich can still live in gills. If the fish have been pre-exposed to it they most probably won't show external signs of it. I also believe it's an external parasite and have successfully treated fish purchased from other people with this scratching using Seachem Cupramine (it's half does in FW for 2 weeks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maskedman Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Ich can still live in gills. If the fish have been pre-exposed to it they most probably won't show external signs of it. I also believe it's an external parasite and have successfully treated fish purchased from other people with this scratching using Seachem Cupramine (it's half does in FW for 2 weeks). I'm going to get a parasitic treatment & run it's course & hope it helps. I forgot to mention earlier that the fish stop scratching after a day or so if they are moved to a different tank. That led me to think it was something in the decor. As I said I disinfected the tank & replaced everything with aquarium bought stuff. The only thing I kept was the substrate as it was proper aquarium gravel. Could my substrate be the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogie Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Ich can still live in gills. If the fish have been pre-exposed to it they most probably won't show external signs of it. I also believe it's an external parasite and have successfully treated fish purchased from other people with this scratching using Seachem Cupramine (it's half does in FW for 2 weeks). I'm going to get a parasitic treatment & run it's course & hope it helps. I forgot to mention earlier that the fish stop scratching after a day or so if they are moved to a different tank. That led me to think it was something in the decor. As I said I disinfected the tank & replaced everything with aquarium bought stuff. The only thing I kept was the substrate as it was proper aquarium gravel. Could my substrate be the problem? I was just wondering how you went with getting rid of this problem? What did/are you using to get rid of it? My fish also have the same problem and I'm also trying to get rid of this. Also where do you purchase the medication? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maskedman Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Was put onto Easy-Life Fluid Filter Media by one aquarium & I gave it a dose of that but it doesn't seem to have done anything. The Easy-Life claims to do everything but turn water into wine so I wasn't greatly surprised that it hasn't helped. I have just managed to find some Sterazin at a local aquarium so I bought his last two bottles & am going to hit them with that. If that doesn't work I'm going to strip the tank, sterilize the tank, the heaters & gaurds & my filter & hoses, throw away airstones, airline, substrate, rock etc, replace the whole lot with new & start over again. If that doesn't work I'm going to use the tank to drown myself in. (not really) I've been working on this problem for over a year & am no closer to a solution. The Sterazin is the last roll of the dice for me. Will let you know how I get on in a few days when it's had a chance to start working & in ten days when it gets it's last dose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Go to Tropheus fanatics and PM Dacj (I think) he is on your side of the country. He sometimes has clout for sale he may be able to help you. I am not sure that sterazin will do much. I think that you probably need something stronger and broad spectrum. cheers Rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogie Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Was put onto Easy-Life Fluid Filter Media by one aquarium & I gave it a dose of that but it doesn't seem to have done anything. The Easy-Life claims to do everything but turn water into wine so I wasn't greatly surprised that it hasn't helped. I have just managed to find some Sterazin at a local aquarium so I bought his last two bottles & am going to hit them with that. If that doesn't work I'm going to strip the tank, sterilize the tank, the heaters & gaurds & my filter & hoses, throw away airstones, airline, substrate, rock etc, replace the whole lot with new & start over again. If that doesn't work I'm going to use the tank to drown myself in. (not really) I've been working on this problem for over a year & am no closer to a solution. The Sterazin is the last roll of the dice for me. Will let you know how I get on in a few days when it's had a chance to start working & in ten days when it gets it's last dose. yeh I know the feeling, I've got a red empress which is close to 20cm and when he starts scratching you know about it! I keep thinking something has broken but it's just the empress going for broke scratching his head! I am hesitant in putting medication into the tank unless i know it is going to work. Let us know how it goes, hopefully it fixes this annoying problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdk54 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Was put onto Easy-Life Fluid Filter Media by one aquarium & I gave it a dose of that but it doesn't seem to have done anything. The Easy-Life claims to do everything but turn water into wine so I wasn't greatly surprised that it hasn't helped. I have just managed to find some Sterazin at a local aquarium so I bought his last two bottles & am going to hit them with that. If that doesn't work I'm going to strip the tank, sterilize the tank, the heaters & gaurds & my filter & hoses, throw away airstones, airline, substrate, rock etc, replace the whole lot with new & start over again. If that doesn't work I'm going to use the tank to drown myself in. (not really) I've been working on this problem for over a year & am no closer to a solution. The Sterazin is the last roll of the dice for me. Will let you know how I get on in a few days when it's had a chance to start working & in ten days when it gets it's last dose. Know the feeling mate. I had some sort of multi-drug resistant bug in my tank for a few months. In the end after many attempts to fix the issue and failing miserably, I had to pull the whole tank down and clean the lot of it with Condy's Crystals (Kills everything). Then, after I had cleaned that out, I started again. First with just the bare tank and and a few fish. Then slowly over a few weeks, started adding things back in. Not a pleasant experience, but I guess I've learnt something out of it! Cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozarowana Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Guys give Seachem Cupramine a go before you strip the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogie Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Guys give Seachem Cupramine a go before you strip the tank. I've been wanting to give that a try. How hard is it to remove from the tank once the dosage is complete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maskedman Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Thanks for the info Rosco, will see if I can chase some down if the Sterazin doesn't do the trick. My fish are all big to so it sounds like WW3 in my tank at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozarowana Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 How hard is it to remove from the tank once the dosage is complete? The second last question should give you your answer. Though I just do a few big water changes. http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Cupramine.html#faq6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maskedman Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Which? The Sterazin? I imagine putting activated carbon in the filter would do the trick. If not multiple water changes will do the job. Some medications disperse entirely on thier own. In the case of Sterazin you have to remove carbon etc from the filter before using it & that usually means that carbon will remove the medication from the water when treatment is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maskedman Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Does anyone know why not all the posts show up for me all the time? I only get to see some of the replys & then more pop up a few minutes later that were posted before the ones I was reading. Thanks for the tip ozarowana. Never heard of the stuff, but I'm willing to give anything a go at this point, (within reason & budget). I just have to be careful about over medicating the tank. What's it do/for exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozarowana Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Cupramine is a parasitic treatment. Here's a cut and paste from http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html Cupramine™ effectively eradicates Oodinium, Cryptocaryon, Amyloodinium, Ichthyophthirius, and other ectoparasites of both freshwater and marine fish. It is superior to copper sulfate, chloride & citrate: it is non-acidic, less toxic to fish, remains in solution, and does not contaminate the filter bed. It is superior to chelates: it is fully charged (ionic), active at low concentrations, and is removable with carbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogie Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Hmm sounds promising. Might have to give it a try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maskedman Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 Thanks for the link & info ozarowana. Will put it on the list of things to try before I resign myself to stripping the whole lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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