eckies Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Hey again guys, iam fairly new to this web site. Iam just tryin to get peoples opinion on the hybrid topic. Firstly, i relise the problems that it would cause for breeders. Also selling a hybrid as a "pure" species and the offspring have lost there F1 qualities... and then yes i would eventually wipe out a "Pure" species. BUT...... The species that is created when two "pure" tropicals cross can also be a beautiful fish can it not..? iam not talking about a mongrel species of bits of everything (even tho that could be cool haha), But one of a second coming species of two combined fish, Bearing both the possative qualities of the previous. Just thought i way into that topic as its a bit of a taboo in the aquarium scene. Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Hey again guys, iam fairly new to this web site. Iam just tryin to get peoples opinion on the hybrid topic. Firstly, i relise the problems that it would cause for breeders. Also selling a hybrid as a "pure" species and the offspring have lost there F1 qualities... and then yes i would eventually wipe out a "Pure" species. BUT...... The species that is created when two "pure" tropicals cross can also be a beautiful fish can it not..? iam not talking about a mongrel species of bits of everything (even tho that could be cool haha), But one of a second coming species of two combined fish, Bearing both the possative qualities of the previous. Just thought i way into that topic as its a bit of a taboo in the aquarium scene. Ben. Hi Ben and welcome You are treading a fine line in any cichlid fish community when mentioning 'hybrids'. There is one that we do condone and that is the discus - this occurred too long ago for me to remember however I still do not compare the vivid line bred colours of these against the amazing wild heckel The problem with hybrids from most viewpoints (and if you do a search you will find many posts) is nothing if they are allowed to live their life out in your tanks and you never sell, give them a way or spare their lives in anyway if you wish to dispose of them. It is the careless nature of human beings however to do any of the above and lines no longer remain pure We have lost over 200 species of pure cichlid to the hobby in australia and some no longer exist in the wild so we will never see them again. Still with over 200 species remaining why play around with what nature so beautifully provides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Ben, The issue against hybridising is not just centred around their appearance. Some created hybrids are very beautiful to look at, while others turn my stomach, they look so awful. The issue is about many other things. Let's say that a shop sold you a hybrid as a texas - and it really does look like a texas when young. This fish grows up to look very different however, and when you try to breed them, you have no success, because the hybridised offspring are sterile. You would be very upset. The shop would most likely not have known that what they sold was not what they said it was, because some doobee has bred these hybrids and lied. You then get fish being sold with trade names that are grossly inaccurate, deceiving innocent hobbyists everywhere, who are just starting out with species they have selected from text books (which incidentally, never list hybrids). Everything then becomes muddled, no one is sure what they are buying anymore because you're just not able to believe the name on the tank, people lose interest in the hobby and so on... Not to mention the bastardisation of a pure species, which may one day need to be bred through hobbyists like us to replenish dwindling wild stocks. It would ultimately be best to put the thought out of your head - it is something that should not tempt a true hobbyist. Regards, Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Yes, a very fine line indeed. You will find a lot of members totally against it. Personally i feel the same way. After working at an aquarium for a few years i have seen people bring in hybrids time and time again. We refuse to take hybrids and do not let any come into our hands. Secondly most hybrids are sterile, aggressive and plain mean.. The cross bred Red Devil and Flowerhorn are two examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckies Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 just to clarify iam not in favor of the circulation of hybrids or false sale in any way shape or form.. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattrox Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Mate, I don't even approve of mongrel species dogs, let alone fish. Dogs is entirely different because all domestic dogs are the same species, never to be returned to the wild, and don't really need conservation. They are all bred purely for appearence or performance..... Tropical fish are entirely different and there is more to the argument pro and con than "I don't approve"..... I don't approve of a lot of things, but some people are quite comfortable doing. I think that all the facts, pros and cons should be put out so people can be educated and encouraged not to buy (create demand for) hybrids and to try and prevent breeding of hybrid fish. Most discus are not hybrid, but line bred and then different lines crossed to create new traits. They are the same species..... most people would not have an issue with this. With Malawi fish for instance, two peacocks may be the same species from different locations and have entirely different colouration. This could be considered "speciation in progress" and crossing will wipe out these unique characteristics. They are considered something special to be preserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckies Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 With Malawi fish for instance, two peacocks may be the same species from different locations and have entirely different colouration. This could be considered "speciation in progress" and crossing will wipe out these unique characteristics. They are considered something special to be preserved. true.. even tho i do find hybrids intresting i would agree if it is not natural it should be isolated and kept and never mixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genetik_defekt Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 hybrids are an absolute stain on the aquarium trade. ive said it before. Most if not all hybrids are made for the sole purpose of sale for profit. Look at things like the parrot cichlid. You gotta be kidding, a deformed fish that barely clings to life everyday and 99.9% of which are sterile. People will do anything for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattrox Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 hybrids are an absolute stain on the aquarium trade. ive said it before. Most if not all hybrids are made for the sole purpose of sale for profit. Look at things like the parrot cichlid. You gotta be kidding, a deformed fish that barely clings to life everyday and 99.9% of which are sterile. People will do anything for money. Just look at all the deformed goldfish with bubble eyes, growths on their heads, or overly shortened bodies.... not really hybridisation, but capitalising on "oddities".... I don't like it can't be a comfortable life for a fish that is supposed to swim freely to be deliberately bred with these hobbling deformities.... Drifted off topic sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckies Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 na i think that is on topic.. i hadnt thought of them as a hybrids suffering as such, but yes now u mention the "lifestyle" of the fish. It changes the way u think of the possative way they look to the suffering that sum go through.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 hybrids are an absolute stain on the aquarium trade. ive said it before. Most if not all hybrids are made for the sole purpose of sale for profit. Look at things like the parrot cichlid. You gotta be kidding, a deformed fish that barely clings to life everyday and 99.9% of which are sterile. People will do anything for money. my personal opinion regarding flowerhorns is to kill them all and let god sort them out. outside of that im with yip. if they were bred for the love then i might turn a blind eye to it but theyre not; just take a quick look at petlink and pf; kamfa juvies 30000000000000000000.00 each (price grossly exagerated for comedic effect) people breed these things for profit, and when they dont sell them for the amount theyre looking for, or when they particular strain they have is no longer popular, they dump them at their local lfs and destroy pure strains forever; trimacs and synsphilums are just two fish that have now been destroyed for profit, and i fear that the large number of "red texas" and texas/jaguars(i saw one hundred of these being sold at st george recently, so theyre out there now) will soon lead to the demise of more pure species its sad when in the name of profit this http://www.aquamojo.com/sysnspilum/Synspilum-407b.jpg gets replaced by this http://diszhal.info/halak/Vieja_synspilus.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckies Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 hybrids are an absolute stain on the aquarium trade. ive said it before. Most if not all hybrids are made for the sole purpose of sale for profit. Look at things like the parrot cichlid. You gotta be kidding, a deformed fish that barely clings to life everyday and 99.9% of which are sterile. People will do anything for money. my personal opinion regarding flowerhorns is to kill them all and let god sort them out. outside of that im with yip. if they were bred for the love then i might turn a blind eye to it but theyre not; just take a quick look at petlink and pf; kamfa juvies 30000000000000000000.00 each (price grossly exagerated for comedic effect) people breed these things for profit, and when they dont sell them for the amount theyre looking for, or when they particular strain they have is no longer popular, they dump them at their local lfs and destroy pure strains forever; trimacs and synsphilums are just two fish that have now been destroyed for profit, and i fear that the large number of "red texas" and texas/jaguars(i saw one hundred of these being sold at st george recently, so theyre out there now) will soon lead to the demise of more pure species its sad when in the name of profit this http://www.aquamojo.com/sysnspilum/Synspilum-407b.jpg gets replaced by this http://diszhal.info/halak/Vieja_synspilus.jpg That first pic of the synspilum is amazing!!!! i have never seen a fish like that before!! also was goin to ask if that is naturally comon colour or rare to see like that in the wild..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 That first pic of the synspilum is amazing!!!! i have never seen a fish like that before!! and thanks to hybrids you never will!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattrox Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 That first pic of the synspilum is amazing!!!! i have never seen a fish like that before!! and thanks to hybrids you never will!!! And with that there really need be no more discussion, picture posting, buying, breeding, advocating (no matter how well disguised) on the pros of them..... there really is no need for them is there. As the saying goes, bad press is better than no press. We shouldn't be wasting our time discussing them, just for the sake of it. If everyone who had hybrids got rid of them and got into breeding the rarer and "lost" species, we would all be better off wouldn't we?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genetik_defekt Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I totally agree. i think this thread should be locked out. no point as everyone on here knows how true lovers of fish feel about all things "hybrid" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Why lock the thread up? If it is a waste of your time to post about this then dont. Not everyone on here knows the consequences of non pure fish in our hobby, so I say, while its civil let it run its course Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattrox Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I agree and probably should be put in the FAQ section so it can be linked to should the topic arise again. It can just be pointed to without rehashing all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genetik_defekt Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Why lock the thread up? If it is a waste of your time to post about this then dont. Not everyone on here knows the consequences of non pure fish in our hobby, so I say, while its civil let it run its course Josh Did you see me write it was a waste of my time? no?! then dont assume to know what im thinking. As for making it a sticky thats pointless too because no matter what newbies always ask the same questions, on every forum in regards to everything that interests them, rather then searching things first. I did it when i was a newb, you did it because your a newb and the newbs who follow will do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evo Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Ok everyone lets please not get at attitude like a hybrid.. Everyone a few deep breaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Let's add a positive spin to this topic - and pose a question: Has nature not made things beautiful enough that we need to change them to suit our egomaniacal purposes? That's the stance I've always taken. If it's not broken, don't fix it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fry_2_buy Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Out of interest, without the intention of being in favour of hybrids (as I am against them), but surely hybridisation has occured in nature amongst various cichlid species... am I wrong for thinking that? Of course it is wrong to play God and create entirely new forms of fish, but does it occur naturally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Has nature not made things beautiful enough that we need to change them to suit our egomaniacal purposes? well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Did you see me write it was a waste of my time? no?! then dont assume to know what im thinking. What makes you think I was talking about you Yipp-e? and you are telling me not to assume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E4G13M4N Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 As a shop owner in SA i am very wary as to what cichlids we trade in especially young ones, it is also hard to explain to someone that the prized fish they have bought elsewhere for top dollar is not what they bought. Sometimes it may not even been a hybrid just some shops over here are clueless like adult Blue Peacocks sold as electric blues etc Its no wonder the hybrd levels seem higher here than any where else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malrift Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 I belive there is naturally formed hybrids in the lake but I would expect most wouldnt last long as anything that is different usually gets gobbled up. Personally I think it should be placed with the likes of dyed and tattooed fish it is a money grabbing practice that should be stopped. Also another problem I have noticed alot up here anyway is breeders have display tanks full of pairs and trios and if the female has a mouthful they milk it or remove her to release them and assume that the male of her species is the one that has bred with her. This is another reason why we should look carfully at what we are doing cause thes are sold as young fish quite often looking like the adult and as they grow they change. Just my thoughts anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.