fishly Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 What is the best brand that you recommend for the above disease? Regards, Fishly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E4G13M4N Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 I have found Protozin to be the best that i have used.. Unfortunatly it wont be available for much longer unless there are a few law changes made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barra Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 is there a reason for that E4G13M4N? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyMan Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Aquarium grade Salt... Heat... No need for ANYTHING else... works in there natural setting, why add something un-natural into there environment... If you do a search here you will find other info based on the same concept or I have an article HERE!!! For those allergic to links... Raising the aquarium temperature may help combat in infectious disease in some (if not most) situations. Thermal treatment can be beneficial in one or more ways; * Thermally-induced death of parasites. The protozoan parasites Ichthyophthirius and Ichthyobodo (costia) are normally unable to complete their life cycles aboce 28-30c (81-85f), so raising the temperature to just beyond this critical value for approx 1 week will effectively eradicate these parasites, assuming the affected fish species are able to tolerate this degree of heat (many cannot). * Acceleration of parasite metabolism. Increasing the water temperature will generally speed up the life cycles of parasites, and thus shorten the periods spent at chemical-resistant stages (eg cysts). When used in combination with a suitable chemical remedy or introduction of diluted salt, at the rate of 1-2 tablespoons per gallon during partial water changes, thermal treatments often effect a faster cure. (or 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons tank capacity) * Increasing the waters temperature can sometimes influence a fish's ability to combat diseases - within physiological limits, the speed and efficiency of the immune response system increases with water temperature. Likewise, an increase in temperature may speed up the metabolic rate, helping the healing process. After treatment the temperature should be returned to normal at a gradual rate, (over 4-5 days is recommended). Remember higher temps means less oxygen in the water so aeration may be needed to compensate, (via an air stone or additional surface agitation). copyright - MollyMan.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishly Posted February 6, 2004 Author Share Posted February 6, 2004 Thanks for the info guys. Molly, does it work for velvet disease as well? By the way, does it has to be rock salt? can I use malawi salt instead? Regards, Fishly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebe Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 I once mistook velvet for ick. upped the temp and went to work. Came home and discovered I had just made the disease progress more quickly and it soon after killed almost all the fish. So the short answer is, NO turning the temp up does NOT work for velvet! It makes it worse. I used a medication I can't remember to treat the velvet when I realised what it was. It cleared up soon after. But it is a pretty destructive disease and you have to act fast. If it is velvet, treat it ASAP. I'd much rather they have Ick. Also, sodium chloride has an osmotic effect on the free-swimming stages of these parasites and is different to Malawi "salt" which contains other minerals (maybe some salt too, I haven't ever kept Malawis). I'd stick with the rock salt. you can buy it at Franklins for about 70c a bag. HTH Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyMan Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 I feel I am about to waste my time explaining why not to use rock salt from Franklins, or anywhere for that matter... but I will... actually, heck, I will give you the facts as stated by one of the pioneers of the African Cichlid keeping hobby and make with it what you will, but standard rock salt from the supermarket is dangerous for fish.. sorry ebe, but these are proven scientific facts... NaCl Sodium chloride Freely soluble. Doesn’t contribute to GH but is essential for African cichlids. Do not use table salt (contains flow enhancers including cyanide salts). also known as "Yellow prussiate of soda (sodium ferrocyanide decahydrate)" I would never use Table salt, and would strongly recommend anyone agaisnt using such... the additives and preservatives agents used in commercial salt can be deadly to fish... Those are quotes on other boards and the first one by Ad Konings in one of his books... will try and source the reference for you... The original question was velvet or ich... if in the very early stages of Velvet heat and salt WILL work, however in the more developed stages, medication is required... This is an area that I am passionate about and it annoys me to no end how people just go, oh add that, or add this... leave the meds till absolutely necessary, stop poisoning the tank environment and stick to the basics... in the long run you will have healthier and happier fish... (gets off soapbox, and hand over the 2c) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mianos Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 SAXA Crystal Sea Rock Salt =Sodium chloride, No anti caking agents, just rock salt from evaporated plains. Home brand and No Frills table salt = Sodium chloride + anti caking agent 554, this being sodium aluminosilicate which is non toxic (in fact it's the opposite, it's used as toxin binders in feedstock). YMMV (I'm not saying yes or no to using salt in th aquarium here, I am just commenting on the chemical composition of a few of the commonly available food salts available at the supermarket, i.e. the scientific part). edit: fast typing = bad spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishly Posted February 7, 2004 Author Share Posted February 7, 2004 So, what is the best salt Mollyman? Thanks for your prompt reply. Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 i have used all sorts of methods, and IMO, Protozin is by far the best. Its copper based, so be careful of inverts. Upping the heat can serve 2 purposes. 1) It can cook the parasite (at approx 84-90*F) This is assuming your fish dont cook first It works well with clown loaches, but nukes most tetras. Cichlids can go either way. If you find a strain of ich that nukes at 81-84*F, you are VERY lucky! The little devils have become quite resistant. Perhaps they discovered teflon coating? 2) it can speed up the life cycle. This is important to realise, as if your temp isnt killing the parasite, all its doing is making it breed quicker, which aint helping your fish. it DOES help if you are medicating tho, as the medication can only kill the ich parasite in the free swimming stage (well, it has its best chance then anyhoo) and speeding up the lifecycle means that you can kill the parasites quicker. Salt is a pretty old style treatment. I dont see how adding truckloads of salt to a FW fishtank is any better than adding copper, but each to his own. And for velvet, the parasite isnt as tricky to kill (possibly less time encysted?) so just go with the Protozin and it should get it within 3 days or so. Also, do finish the full course of meds. dont stop when you stop seeing spots, there are more than likely tons of parasites still throughtout your tank. If you are using heat treatment, continue for 3 days after the last spots vanish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E4G13M4N Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Barra This is from the importer as for info that i have at this stage Waterlife is not a registered medication in OZ, so thanks to a couple of local medication manufacturers complaining, waterlife wont be imported till laws are changed here. Thats when and if they do change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mianos Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 You are confusing the mineral malachite with malachite green. There is no copper in malachite green, it's C23 H5 N2 (the copper mineral is CuCO3.CU(OH)2) sorry for the lack of subscripts but you get the gist. Most protozoan remedies are a combination of malachite green and formalin. Although Waterlife does not have it on the bottle I'd assume it's the same. I have some here. It works but IMHO the Australian product by Aquarium Science 'White Spot Remedy' is .37 mg/Ml formaldehyde and .32 mg/mL malachite green product is better value and includes the ingredients on the bottle, YMMV. Increasing the temperature will speed up the life cycle of the organism. The addition of salt will supress it. Personally I'd not recommend simply warming up the tank alone. Medications are certainly best avoided on a regular basis but in the case of environmental changes (new fish, new tank, etc etc) that are (IMHO) the usually cause of a 'white spot' outbreak, the occasional use of meds is ok. If you are pilling this stuff in the tank on a regular basis you have more serious problems. Follow the instructions on dosage and be very careful avoid getting it on your skin as it’s carcinogenic (and will probably be regulated in the future). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebe Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 For the record, when I said rock salt I meant rock salt - ie sodium chloride (NaCl if you're interested in the scientific facts heheh) not table salt. Franklins sells it. Ingredients = 100% Sodium chloride. No iodine. No anti-caking agent. I have been around the traps a little while But I am glad you clarified it for those who may have understood me to have meant table salt, Molly. Cheers Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barra Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 thank you E4G13M4N you have been most informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 You are confusing the mineral malachite with malachite green. There is no copper in malachite green Was this at me? I have no idea what is in it as far as specifics, but after some whinging and whining to Waterlife, i was informed that it contained copper. It was like extracting teeth, but i figure they arent likely to tell a big fib to a consumer who is specifically asking about her inverts. It also isnt recommended for marine i dont think, which would make sense too It actually doesnt suprise me, as another older remedy for ich is a few copper coins tossed into the tank. Works well for snail removal too i hear What is this about it not being imported? are you for real? Geez! we cant win over here. *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pride Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Guys, Will using a product like Protozin mess around with the biological filtration in any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishly Posted February 9, 2004 Author Share Posted February 9, 2004 Hi Guys, what happen if the fishes are not infected by velvet or ich get treated with the velvet/ich medication? and where can I buy protozin in sydney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebe Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Will using a product like Protozin mess around with the biological filtration in any way? Not according to the label, which states it will not affect the biofilter or plants. where can I buy protozin in sydney? Auburn Aquarium stocks it. what happen if the fishes are not infected by velvet or ich get treated with the velvet/ich medication? If they are in the same tank as the infected fish odds are they will just benefit from the treatment. Read the label carefully - it needs to be used at different dosages depending on species and the type of filtration used. Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E4G13M4N Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Will using a product like Protozin mess around with the biological filtration in any way? Not according to the label, which states it will not affect the biofilter or plants. One of the reasons i prefer to use it..Is that it doesnt affect the good bacteria.. Most people think they lose fish after treatment to the infection, where as in most cases its the ammonia spike caused by the lack of bacteria lost to the treatment of some brands.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishly Posted February 9, 2004 Author Share Posted February 9, 2004 Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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