marnifer Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Hi, I have a rather unwell fish who does seem to be getting better though it has been a long process and I think she will be fine now, given a little more recuperation time. While there is a huge debate surrounding euthanasia, sometimes I think it is the best thing, often if the animal appears to be suffering. What I'm not sure of though is the best method of euthanising a fish. Does anybody have any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agro77 Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Puts Flame proof suit on.... 200ml metho in 1 litre of tank water, place jug in frezzer with fish. The Fish will drift drunkly off for the biggest kip (sleep) of all, then when frozen place under tree and make the plant enjoy what you have Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cichlids_au Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Hi there There are two basic ways of terminating your fish. 1 is to freeze them and the other is by sudden impact. I choose the sudden impact method, as I believe that it is the most humane way to euthanasia your fish. How to The freezer method is just simply placing your fish into a plastic bag and popping it into the freezer. When frozen dispose of appropriately. Sudden impact is to literally hit the fish to death. I do it by throwing the fish onto a concrete slab as hard as I can. Pro’s & Con’s Freezing Pro This method is “clean” it has no effect on the person doing it as they tend to put the fish in the freezer and forget about it. Con This method is touted as the most humane however I do not agree. Some critters tend to go into dormancy or hibernation when exposed to cold climates (crabs fall into this category). As the metabolic rate decreases the critter “slumbers” to conserve life. Fish do not fall into this group they experience the full effect of the temperature drop. Death is prolonged. Other works by people in positions of knowledge, state that fish do feel what we know as pain, slow freezing induces pain. Sudden impact Pro This is the quickest way to terminate a fish. Death is immediate. Con This method is messy and you feel the guilt associated with slamming a fish into the concrete. I hate doing it by impact but I can't bring myself to putting the fish through the freezer treatment. Next thing you should be considering is what will you do with the dead fish. If the fish died of natural causes then you will simply chuck it into the bin, if however it has died from an illness you should be considering how you deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chorrylan Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 hi, when I have to deal with tiny fish they just take a very fast bounce off the pavers out tha back but for the few times I've had to deal with a larger fish I used a similar freeze technique except that I tried to make it a quick freeze rather than gradual. eg I place a tub of salty water and ice cubes in the freezer, agitate it a few times as it gets cold to stop it freezing solid, then just before it sets drop the poor little almost-departed fish in there, agitate the water a bit to ensure a quick transfer of heat from the fish to the water and the poor little blighter gets snap frozen. The few times I've needed this it has taken about 30 seconds for all signs of life to disappear and there has never been any indication of stress (I have a suspicion/hope they probably die or cardiac arrest immediately and even the 30 seconds is just nerves etc). In a normal tank situation if temperatures drop due to heater malfunction etc the fish can get get quite stressed as they gradually drop below their normal temperature range so I'd rather go for a snap-freeze option rather than a gradual sip-away-in-their sleep model. Incidentally... I use salty water to lower the freezing temperature of the water, is that what the metho is for or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agro77 Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 The metho is alcohol so you give them a nice drunk feeling, then it also lowers the freezing point of the water. It should therefor be painless and fairly humane Flame suit still on!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Hi guys, I can't believe we are all brave enough to go down this road again but understand that we have new members joining all the time that have not been privvy to this discussion. 100% with Cichlids_au on this. It is about the fish not suffering AT ALL - not about the easiest method for us humans to cope with. We have spoken about drugging them now it is about inebriation Put them out of their misery quickly and 'hopefully' painlessly. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 <<thick flame suit on>> As both a fish keeper and a fisherman, the fastest method is by a sharp, powerful blow to the skull, crushing it and the brain instantly. I have a very hard cosh (foot-long hardwood club) called a priest (nasty joke - it gives the last rites) that is highly effective on everything up to legally taken sharks. My biggest kill was a 1.5M bronze whaler but that took a couple of very hard blows. And yep if you're sensitive about having to kill anything you will feel like crap the first time. After that the feeling is stuff all as you will learn to cope with doing the right and humane thing. Chhers - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Wombat Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I usually squish/flick fry when im culling, chop the head off, or flick the head (hard) for smaller fish, and hit bigger fish across the head with a small, heavy, round piece of wood Not the most pleasant of things to do - but 1 - Im a fisherman. I do a lot worse to flathead. 2 - i want to end the suffering of the animal as quickly as possible (it is my pet afterall) If you really want to make it as painless as possible - you can anaesthetise them before hand using clove oil and then put em in the freezer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lungy Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Absolutely agree with Coleman ( that was hard to say ) Anyhow i personally catch fish in net walk outside to concrete / brick wall and with one ( & one only ) calculated slam it's over ... I just think of the Newcastle boys b4 i get the net ... But i really think this fridge stuff is a load of poo poo!!! These r fish not polar bears we're talking about ... Andy... Ps.. Fridges are for BEER !!! OH & FOOD ... .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I seem to remember a Browns Pants bloke needing a friend to throw them down as he couldn't do it himself, and they were only an inch long..... Nice to know we're being thought of. Can't say I give too much thought to what others are doing in another state though. Seems a bit obsessive to me *steps out of flame suit and gets out the sun tan lotion* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I too prefer the pavement method. For bent fry, they usually have a brief visit with my dimi comp juvies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 The fridge method works... I've been out on a lot of fishing vessels where the catch tank is refrigerated. The fish that are caught are put into 0 - 5 C sea water and they become quite torpid. Their flesh, even after many hours is as good as the ones I catch at dusk and eat at dark on the same day without refrigeration (even decent fish that can be sashimi'ed on the spot). It comes down to personal choice. Get them purportedly happy on meths and die slowly in the cold (I think it would actually be a case of slow poisoning followed by metabolic failure owing to cold like drunk guys in Russia falling asleep in the snow), or just a powerful blow destroying all senses and life. Face it - would you preferred to be shot / brained or made 'drunk' and frozen? (I would prefer a massive OD of opiates, but hey I'm pleasure driven and it's not an option for fish. ) Cheers - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lungy Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 LOL@Hyper Good to see some humor again Andy i am not obsest , though i do have a few ( OCD'S ) .. It's simply a prompted though of humor that i take advantage of , Give it a try !! You may end up POPULAR like me Andy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilli Powder Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I agree with Mark also. But I put the fish in a freezer bag or old plastic bag and go bang on the breakfast bar or the wall. The mess is then contained within the bag and nothing to clean up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cichlids_au Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Mr. Clean. The hit man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHL Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 If you really want to make it as painless as possible - you can anaesthetise them before hand using clove oil and then put em in the freezer. From personal experience, oil of cloves (eugenol) does not work. I usually just freeze them; if small, that's a very fast method. If I really want fast, I suppose I could use CO2 ice (don't have access to liquid nitrogen, or that would be even faster). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaz1986 Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 when I worked in a lab where we had to kill 100 fish to test them in less than an hour... we just used benzocain (spelling?) at 15% solution in water... the other... faster option that the animal ethics commitee allowed was immersion in pure ethanol... 5 second death was the slowest i saw! otherwise... do you know some mates who want a feeder? I know it is hard to think of a pet that way... but when my bass hits a goldfish it has one or two flicks of the tail... and then nothingness... so that is another quick way to do it. and as for your clove oil comment... i also worked at a fish farm... we anethetised 1.5Kg Bass in a 10mL/L solution... and trust me... you did not want to get a whiff of pure clove oil... it sent one farm assistant sprawled accross the floor!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyme Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I have had cause to use both methods and I agree totally with Cichlids_au. And very well put I might add! My vet told me to slame them into concrete and it works first time everytime. I hate to see anything suffer with no hope of recovery, even people. Craig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquaman Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I had to kill a small fry the other day, just buried it in a hole in the garden...I did say sorry before I did so... Hope it died quickly. I'm not so sure after reading this Cheers Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebe Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 In this post, I'm not contradicting anyone - if there is science that proves I have been mistaken I will of course reconsider my preferred method of euthanising. Cichlids au, could you please explain the reason why you assert that fish are not an animal which freezing is a humane method of euthanising? I always understood that fish, being cold blooded, in fact go into a torpid state as water cools (that is how they survive near-freezing temperatures in winter ponds o/s) and that this state simply becomes more pronounced until metabolic function shuts down entirely. It is my understanding that as fish are not warm blooded they do not perceive the water around them as getting colder and hence the cooling down of the water is not something that causes the fish discomfort. I euthanise all my (sick!) fish by placing them in a large vessel of their own tank water in the freezer. I do this because I believe that having the body processes slowly and IM(open to persuasion otherwise)HO painlessly shut down is kinder then the brief but unquestionable trauma of being manhandled in a foreign environment and smacked with "the priest" (By the way, the technique I prefer is not to just drop him in a tray of ice water or put him on the freezer shelf to stick to it and suffocate (I knew someone who did this once). the water cools down gradually). I hope this post doesn't sound argumentative, I am genuinely interested in the science behind a concept which totally contradicts what I always believed about fish body chemistry. Cheers Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimbo Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 When i was doing some work for NSW fisheries aquaculture they had animal ethics go through the joint and they said their waws 3 ways to kill a fish which they consider humane. They where and overdose of anisthetic, euckigeima (spelling?) and an ice slurry. i would add a blow to the head as well. anisthetic - use clove oil or benzocaine. i work on a aquaculture farm and that is all we use. It does work and is fairly readily available, i think you can get it froma chemise. in a small quantity you may have to mix in a small amount of alcohol to make it disipate into the water better. euchigima (spelling) is basically sticking a spike through the shull directly into the brain causing an instant kil- i wouldn't suggest this as it it difficult to master. ice slurry. this is probably the best way as it is quick and easy and INSTANT if done properly. just get a container and fill it with ice. add enough water so thet the ice can move freely. add a reasonably amount of salt and mix it about. then get the fish and plunge it into the mix making sure it is full immersed. Death is caused by thermal shock in this case not but slowing metabloism which takes a long time and in my mind is not as humane. this is what we use at work to chill fish for market. 800gm silver perch will last only seconds in the mix so unless your fish is a monster this will do the trick. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 In the next NSWCS there will be an article about the various methods you can use to do this . Sadly sometimes it is a necessary evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilli Powder Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I shaved my head and all as disguise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lungy Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 ARJ You have an "ICE-BLOCK " for a Heart ... Andy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lungy Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Arj !!! Monks are not permitted at these events ... Andy... Ps. i miss nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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